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pro series to return next season ?

Postby csprince

Monday 22 Mar 2021 01:41PM
WST Chairman Barry Hearn has described the new WST Pro Series as a “fantastic addition to our tour” following the conclusion of the event on Sunday.

Mark Williams won the inaugural title by topping the final group, finishing ahead of Ali Carter, with Sam Craigie third and Judd Trump fourth.

The world ranking event started in January with an innovative format, giving all 128 tour players the opportunity to play seven matches a day in a round robin group in Milton Keynes. The players were split into 16 groups of eight, with the top two in each group going into phase two.

Those 32 players were split into four more groups of eight for phase two, with the top two in each contesting the final group on Sunday.

The event was broadcast on the Matchroom.Live platform, which gives fans around the world the chance to watch a wide range of WST events. The action was also broadcast on selected betting sites and online platforms in China.

Gary Wilson was the only player to make a 147 during the event, and in total there were 146 centuries.

Hearn said: “The WST Pro Series has proved a fantastic addition to our tour this season. It has provided every player on the circuit with the opportunity to play a series of matches in top class conditions, for significant levels of prize money. The format has worked well, with most groups going down to the last round of matches. It has provided plenty of entertainment and drama for fans watching on platforms including Matchroom.Live. My congratulations go to Mark Williams as the inaugural champion.

“We are now working on a packed calendar for the 2021/22 season, to be released in due course. Given the success of the WST Pro Series it may appear on the schedule again next season.”

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby Andre147

Honestly I dont think they should.

They served it's purpose, a replacement for the China events missing on the calendar, just like having more than one Championship League.

Next season hopefully the China events will return.

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby McManusFan

If it does return, it should replace the championship league. I think it would also be better if they made the matches last four frames - it seems silly not to have draws in league formats. Also, I'd prefer the final group to be a knockout; a ranking event with no final is just weird.

What do you lot think?

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby chengdufan

I think the format is better than q school. You could run this as a q school replacement. It doesn't seem popular enough a format to be a successful spectator sport

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby SnookerEd25

McManusFan wrote:If it does return, it should replace the championship league. I think it would also be better if they made the matches last four frames - it seems silly not to have draws in league formats. Also, I'd prefer the final group to be a knockout; a ranking event with no final is just weird.

What do you lot think?


I agree with you on both points, and add that all four frames should be completed. That would make it more watchable.

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby lhpirnie

I'm not against it, but they really need to solve the problem of 'dead' matches. Also, there were several players (including some big names) who just 'gave up' and handed out wins to their opponents. It's likely someone will get relegated from the tour because of the distortion to the rankings - even £500 can make a difference to someone on the edge.

At the very least they should change the prizemoney so that they get paid per-match, not by their final group position. It's just simply unfair that a player's earnings (more importantly "ranking points") should be determined by the results of others. The same thing is true of the summer and autumn Championship Leagues.

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby lhpirnie

chengdufan wrote:I think the format is better than q school. You could run this as a q school replacement. It doesn't seem popular enough a format to be a successful spectator sport

Q School? No, the requirements are different. Really, Q School should have longer matches, to test out prospective professionals in the conditions they will need to adapt to. The last thing we should have is a Q School 'lottery', as there's only one chance each year for these guys to get through.


Q School should use a 'Swiss Elimination' format. That way you get a complete ranking from 1-200 (or however many enter). From this you'd get your professionals, and a fair top-up list. It would also be considerably cheaper for players to play continuously, rather than three disconnected knockouts, where they have to travel to and from. The current system is unfair in that the best players usually can't all qualify, because of the random draws being uneven.

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby cupotee

lhpirnie wrote:
chengdufan wrote:I think the format is better than q school. You could run this as a q school replacement. It doesn't seem popular enough a format to be a successful spectator sport

Q School? No, the requirements are different. Really, Q School should have longer matches, to test out prospective professionals in the conditions they will need to adapt to. The last thing we should have is a Q School 'lottery', as there's only one chance each year for these guys to get through.


Q School should use a 'Swiss Elimination' format. That way you get a complete ranking from 1-200 (or however many enter). From this you'd get your professionals, and a fair top-up list. It would also be considerably cheaper for players to play continuously, rather than three disconnected knockouts, where they have to travel to and from. The current system is unfair in that the best players usually can't all qualify, because of the random draws being uneven.


the problem i see with your system is it still favours amateurs or recent pro's such as jackson page who have exclusive access to the best tables and mentored by the best players , in his case mark williams , why should a 16 year old brit keen on becoming a pro but burdened with sub standard facilities be lumbered with paul davison or barry pinches at the q school where he has virtually no chance of winning , just open it up with an entrance fee for all new players over one or preferably two seasons to give young players every chance of gaining experience , whats so special about ebdon hamilton king mcmanus and o brien that they paid an entrance fee and enjoyed not having to qualify to become pro's in 91 as opposed to potential new players now , at least the new player now would get good experience through the season as opposed to having to wait another year .

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby lhpirnie

cupotee wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
chengdufan wrote:I think the format is better than q school. You could run this as a q school replacement. It doesn't seem popular enough a format to be a successful spectator sport

Q School? No, the requirements are different. Really, Q School should have longer matches, to test out prospective professionals in the conditions they will need to adapt to. The last thing we should have is a Q School 'lottery', as there's only one chance each year for these guys to get through.


Q School should use a 'Swiss Elimination' format. That way you get a complete ranking from 1-200 (or however many enter). From this you'd get your professionals, and a fair top-up list. It would also be considerably cheaper for players to play continuously, rather than three disconnected knockouts, where they have to travel to and from. The current system is unfair in that the best players usually can't all qualify, because of the random draws being uneven.


the problem i see with your system is it still favours amateurs or recent pro's such as jackson page who have exclusive access to the best tables and mentored by the best players , in his case mark williams , why should a 16 year old brit keen on becoming a pro but burdened with sub standard facilities be lumbered with paul davison or barry pinches at the q school where he has virtually no chance of winning , just open it up with an entrance fee for all new players over one or preferably two seasons to give young players every chance of gaining experience , whats so special about ebdon hamilton king mcmanus and o brien that they paid an entrance fee and enjoyed not having to qualify to become pro's in 91 as opposed to potential new players now , at least the new player now would get good experience through the season as opposed to having to wait another year .

Ah well it's another debate as to whether the 128-player tour card system is the best. Basically it's just yet another throwback to the 1980's. I would have a more stratified system, based on global rankings (i.e. a ranking list containing all professionals and all amateurs). Then tournaments could invite who they wanted: top players (who decide to enter), young players, popular old players, local players, ...


But that's quite a long way off. My structure for Q School is considerably fairer than the present one, which is the first priority of any sporting event, particularly when there's only one chance per year.

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby cupotee

lhpirnie wrote:
cupotee wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
chengdufan wrote:I think the format is better than q school. You could run this as a q school replacement. It doesn't seem popular enough a format to be a successful spectator sport

Q School? No, the requirements are different. Really, Q School should have longer matches, to test out prospective professionals in the conditions they will need to adapt to. The last thing we should have is a Q School 'lottery', as there's only one chance each year for these guys to get through.


Q School should use a 'Swiss Elimination' format. That way you get a complete ranking from 1-200 (or however many enter). From this you'd get your professionals, and a fair top-up list. It would also be considerably cheaper for players to play continuously, rather than three disconnected knockouts, where they have to travel to and from. The current system is unfair in that the best players usually can't all qualify, because of the random draws being uneven.


the problem i see with your system is it still favours amateurs or recent pro's such as jackson page who have exclusive access to the best tables and mentored by the best players , in his case mark williams , why should a 16 year old brit keen on becoming a pro but burdened with sub standard facilities be lumbered with paul davison or barry pinches at the q school where he has virtually no chance of winning , just open it up with an entrance fee for all new players over one or preferably two seasons to give young players every chance of gaining experience , whats so special about ebdon hamilton king mcmanus and o brien that they paid an entrance fee and enjoyed not having to qualify to become pro's in 91 as opposed to potential new players now , at least the new player now would get good experience through the season as opposed to having to wait another year .

Ah well it's another debate as to whether the 128-player tour card system is the best. Basically it's just yet another throwback to the 1980's. I would have a more stratified system, based on global rankings (i.e. a ranking list containing all professionals and all amateurs). Then tournaments could invite who they wanted: top players (who decide to enter), young players, popular old players, local players, ...


But that's quite a long way off. My structure for Q School is considerably fairer than the present one, which is the first priority of any sporting event, particularly when there's only one chance per year.


I’m not advocating a 128 system either , they ran ptc’s with lots of amateurs perfectly well a few years ago why can’t they do the same now for all tournaments with new entrants paying a fee for two years , obstacles or carbunkles or throwbacks etc one of if not the biggest is access to wst standard tables themself , simplify or overcome that obstacle with an entrance fee for all newcomers , this isn’t remotely meant to sound personal but with the arguable exception of ebdon what have those players i mentioned really done for the game , whats so special about protecting them with a 128 system , i’m not endorsing any protectionist system either simply eliminate the advantage of the pinches walkers davison’s etc by opening it up with an entrance fee and a two year card for all willing to pay the money .

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby The_Abbott

I didn't watch it but I can see how useful it can be for players ranked 80-128 or lower as it gives them some match experience but the top players won't be interested especially if prize money drops.

So do you keep it running at teh same time as say the Grand Prix/Masters to give other players a chance to play and not disrupt the calendar?

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

I don't like the current Tour Card system but I'm not sure if opening up like in the early 90's would work as well given that a lot of the players coming through are from different parts of the World.

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby cupotee

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:I don't like the current Tour Card system but I'm not sure if opening up like in the early 90's would work as well given that a lot of the players coming through are from different parts of the World.


you could still just give them invitation cards or grant them pro status as champions of their respective areas like they do now anyway , and they'd still be more overseas players as they wouldn't be hampered with the restrictions of q school , i'd guess most would either be able to afford it or obtain the money from sponsorship , if they can afford to play in britain anyway i don't see how this would be a disadvantage .

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby lhpirnie

cupotee wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:I don't like the current Tour Card system but I'm not sure if opening up like in the early 90's would work as well given that a lot of the players coming through are from different parts of the World.


you could still just give them invitation cards or grant them pro status as champions of their respective areas like they do now anyway , and they'd still be more overseas players as they wouldn't be hampered with the restrictions of q school , i'd guess most would either be able to afford it or obtain the money from sponsorship , if they can afford to play in britain anyway i don't see how this would be a disadvantage .

Well the money situation is important. That's the reason why we probably won't see any more professional players from Thailand, even though there is a strong amateur game there. Most of the European players coming through have some funds, for example wealthy parents. I even met a couple of young (professional) players from Scotland a few years ago who said they weren't sure they could even afford to enter the World Championship that year.


The tour card system does at least give some kind of security to underwrite loans and sponsors, which most players need until they become established. Meanwhile the big boys fight over £100k bonuses. By way of comparison, the recent Australian Open tennis payed £55k for first-round losers, i.e. L128. Perhaps the reason why some top players claim the young guys are lazy and don't practice enough is because some of them are out trying to supplement their income.

Re: pro series to return next season ?

Postby PLtheRef

Andre147 wrote:Honestly I dont think they should.

They served it's purpose, a replacement for the China events missing on the calendar, just like having more than one Championship League.

Next season hopefully the China events will return.


Andre147 wrote:Honestly I dont think they should.

They served it's purpose, a replacement for the China events missing on the calendar, just like having more than one Championship League.

Next season hopefully the China events will return.


This!

As much as the Pro-Series has been a relative success this season, the only reason it really should return next year is if we are in similar circumstances i.e. being unable to hold overseas events due to restrictions. Likewise holding multiple versions of the Championship League has been good to keep the tour going but even in these circumstances, playing the same tournament four times in 15 months seems

The thing about the Pro-Series and the Championship League is that with the start-stop nature of the events playing so much for a week, and then having a break of several weeks before resuming they do make it harder to follow. I'm not sure it's any coincidence that the Championship League event which I have followed closest just so happened to be the one in June last year.