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Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Monique

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... rning.html
RONNIE O'SULLIVAN has handed snooker's next generation a stark warning: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great.
The Rocket takes on 15-year-old wonderkid Luca Brecel in the opening match of today's first Power Snooker event in London.
Much like O'Sullivan 20 years ago, Belgian Brecel is being hailed as a child prodigy after scooping national and European titles.
But O'Sullivan, 34, has seen Bristol talent Judd Trump, now 21 and often hyped up as his natural successor, struggle to match that tag.
The Essex Exocet became the youngest winner of a ranking title at 17 at the UK Championship in 1993.
And seven-time world champion Stephen Hendry was also on the ranking event honours board at 18.
O'Sullivan said: "I am a great believer in doing it now. You hear people saying 'he needs the experience, give him another few years'.
"There is no time to wait a few years. All great players come on the scene and hit the ground running. Bang.
"Look at Tiger Woods, Stephen Hendry, Mike Tyson and Michael Schumacher. All great players do it early.
"They are quick learners, they don't need years of experience. They grab it by the scruff of the neck, it's like shelling peas for them.
"For Judd Trump, the learning curve is over at 21. He's been a pro a while. When you get to 18 you should be starting to win things. It will be the same for Luca.
"Judd has now won a Tour Championship event this year, not a full ranking title - and he must kick on from that.
"He has got the talent, but he has to start turning that into major ranking tournament victories.
"You don't want to be in ranking semis and quarters all your life, you have to start winning things when it matters."
Brecel, who turns professional next season, handed out a 4-1 drubbing to Hendry at an exhibition in Bruges earlier this year.
He said: "I have set myself a goal of being world champion by 19."
Eight players compete for the £35,000 top-prize in today's eagerly-awaited Power Snooker event at London's indigO2 arena.
World champion Neil Robertson faces Shaun Murphy, Jimmy White plays Ding Junhui and Mark Selby is up against Ali Carter in the other quarter-finals.
ITV4 will show all four first-round matches live from 1pm with the semis and final starting at 6pm.
POWER Snooker are offering Sun readers £5 off each ticket for today's fantastic event at the indigO2 arena in London.
Simply click the tournament website http://www.powersnooker.com/tickets and quote thesun to get your fiver off.


OK this is another installment of the Sun's campaign to promote powers snooker and as usual the title/trailer is much more provocative than the content itself.

But I think this could provide a good base for a discussion.

I personally think there is a lot of truth in this: indeed if a person has the talent and the personality to achieve in something - be it sports, arts or sciences - it rarely needs years to manifest itself. Most great mathematicians (that's my field) displayed their potential already as teens and made their most important contributions before they were 25. But as always when it's about human beings, there is the general trend and then there is the individual as well as the circumstances of their life.

What's your view?
Last edited by Monique on 30 Oct 2010, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby SnookerFan

Obviously the headline is an absolute nonsense, but then you expect exaggeration when reading The Sun. And I don't know where they've got this idea that Ronnie is called The Essex Exocet from. <doh>

I think it's an interesting point. There is some truth to it. Inexperience can be used as an excuse, but so can being too old. One minute you are too young and inexeperienced to deal with the established players, the next you are too old to deal with the young up and comers. I think Judd Trump suffers from this, we seem to be sat round waiting for him to get enough experience before he gets anywhere.

On saying that, I think putting one age on it is slightly misleading. Different players mature at different rates. And we run the risk of saying that because both Ronnie and Hendry were teenagers when they won something, a player who doesn't is useless. Bear in mind you are talking about the two players that people still debate between when discussing the greatest of all time. I don't think somebody winning their first ranking event when they are 19, or 20, is particularly worthy of overreaction.

I think it's just The Sun trying to paint Ronnie and Brecel as some big grudge-match, which it clearly isn't.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Wildey

there are exemptions to the rule but on balance i think he is right on this.

Mark Williams was 21 but to rack up the titles he has John Higgins has or Stephen Hendry has Starting Winning early to mid 20s will be to late.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Witz78

rocket_ron wrote:yes but ronnie was listing greats...would you class tyson as a great? some might some might not


of course hes a great, forget the rape, the ear biting and all the other trivial things. What he achieved from around 86 - 90 was phenomenal. The most explosive aggressive heavyweight of all time, Ali wouldnt have stood a chance with peak Tyson !!!

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Wildey

rocket_ron wrote:yes but ronnie was listing greats...would you class tyson as a great? some might some might not

yes Tyson was a Great that went off the Rails but for the 5 or 6 years between 85 and 90 or 91 he was Awsome.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Witz78

rocket_ron wrote:that great he couldn't beat holyfield or lewis..
Im not doubting he was awsome because he was.. im doubting him being classed as a great. greats win everything and beat Anybody


Tyson in the last half of the 90s was a washed up shadow of the man who took the world by storm in the last half of the 80s.

He knew it too, but hed debts to pay off so had to fight on.

No different to Ali fighting on until 1981 despite being well past it and overweight and suffering losses to journeymen. By then he was floating like an elephant and stinging like a bluebottle :D

Boxing to an extent, like snooker and golf allows the top guys to carry on past their peak so legacies can become tainted. Take Lewis for example, he would never have lost to Rahman in his prime.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Wildey

rocket_ron wrote:that great he couldn't beat holyfield or lewis..
Im not doubting he was awsome because he was.. im doubting him being classed as a great. greats win everything and beat Anybody

mate Greats also has other things in his life and after 5 years of distruction other things crept in.

Tyson was a wrecking machine not a Jabber so he would burn himself out far quicker than someone like Hollyfield

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
Boxing to an extent, like snooker and golf allows the top guys to carry on past their peak so legacies can become tainted. Take Lewis for example, he would never have lost to Rahman in his prime.


Like Hendry he was the Tyson of Snooker just Punched Everyone out and now the likes of Some has him in the Light he wasent because its been tainted <ok>

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby SnookerFan

rocket_ron wrote:that great he couldn't beat holyfield or lewis..
Im not doubting he was awsome because he was.. im doubting him being classed as a great. greats win everything and beat Anybody


You must remember that when he lost to Lennox Lewis he was something like 15 years past his prime, whereas Lennox was in his. There's no doubt that Mike Tyson was an all time great, but going off the rails and going in prison robbed him of a few of his best years. And to still be able to come out and win titles after all that was still pretty good, even if in the mid-1990s he wasn't the same fighter that he was in the mid-1980s.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby SnookerFan

Witz78 wrote:
rocket_ron wrote:that great he couldn't beat holyfield or lewis..
Im not doubting he was awsome because he was.. im doubting him being classed as a great. greats win everything and beat Anybody


Tyson in the last half of the 90s was a washed up shadow of the man who took the world by storm in the last half of the 80s.

He knew it too, but hed debts to pay off so had to fight on.

No different to Ali fighting on until 1981 despite being well past it and overweight and suffering losses to journeymen. By then he was floating like an elephant and stinging like a bluebottle :D

Boxing to an extent, like snooker and golf allows the top guys to carry on past their peak so legacies can become tainted. Take Lewis for example, he would never have lost to Rahman in his prime.


I think Lewis was pretty much still in his prime when he lost to Rahman. I genuinely think that Lewis would have retired undefeated had he not been so lazy in preperation when it came to preparing for fights that he felt he should win. There's no way Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman, his two losses, were in his league. It was just Lewis was too confident he'd beat them, he didn't bother trying.... He beat them both in the rematches, beat McCall so badly that McCall had a nervous breakdown in the ring, and started wondering around and hitting himself. Quite sick really.

Even when Lewis fought Klitschko, he wasn't meant to be. He was meant to be fight a Canadian guy called Kirk Douglas. Kirk pulled out injured, and in a very rare occasion, a better opponent stepped in. Klitschko. Lewis struggled to win, but only because he'd not prepared properly for his other opponent. If they'd had a rematch, he wouldn't have struggled. And Klit still came up short in his best attempt at beating Lewis.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby randam05

I agree with ronnie, if you want be a major force like him, higgins williams and hendry you need to have won early on. But it doesnt mean to say you will never still be a great player. I am sure trump will become good, but not as good as others because he is still yet to win.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby SnookerFan

randam05 wrote:I agree with ronnie, if you want be a major force like him, higgins williams and hendry you need to have won early on. But it doesnt mean to say you will never still be a great player. I am sure trump will become good, but not as good as others because he is still yet to win.


Wasn't Mark Williams a bit older when he won his first title? Or did I dream that?

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Monique

case_master wrote:
Monique wrote:Williams was 21.


Huh? When he won his first World title? He was 25. Higgins was the youngest of the 92 camp to win the world title


No when he won his first ranking title. Ronnie was not speaking about specifically the World, he was speaking about winning ranking tournaments.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Wildey

there will always be exceptions to the Rule but even in his first season and only his 3rd Ranking tournament played the 1992 UK Championship Mark qualified to the last 64 and played the all conquering Stephen Hendry in the last 64 and pushed him to 9-8.

we all knew well before he won his first title that this kid could mix it with the best.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Casey

I don’t think its fair for a player to single out Judd and say he isn’t going to be a great. After all it wasn’t he who was going around saying he would be the next Ronnie. There was too much pressure on him before his career even started.

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby GJ

Monique wrote:
case_master wrote:
Monique wrote:Williams was 21.


Huh? When he won his first World title? He was 25. Higgins was the youngest of the 92 camp to win the world title


No when he won his first ranking title. Ronnie was not speaking about specifically the World, he was speaking about winning ranking tournaments.



robbo world champion

cough cough <laugh>

the theory is :bs: :fart:

Re: Start winning at 18, or you'll never be a great?

Postby Wildey

Rubbish

at 35 you could be ready but you not going to win enough to be considered Good never mind Great.

Sooner you start winning the Greater you will become thats only sense as i say theres Exceptions That Proves the Rule.

i dont class Shaun Murphy,Selby or Maguire as Great Players yet and they approaching 30.

Neil Robertson is the only Player of the current Crop thats on the way to being a Great and Ding close Behind. but Ding was 18.

Regarding Trump he has to start converting Ranking Tournaments in to Last 16,Quarters and Semi.

he is 21 with only 1 Last 16 to his name in Ranking Tournament and he has Never won a Last 32 Match....The Tournament he reached The semi of the 2008 GP Dott pulled out of the last 32.