Mark Williams has John Higgins as the 2nd best player ever

Wow, he has Higgins above Hendry







not a Hendry fan myself but that's just crazy. Ronnie and Hendry are essentially 1a and 1b in Snooker, Higgins is obviously an all-time great but above Hendry when he's so much less in achievements?

3 world titles less, literally has half of Hendry's Triple Crown haul (18 > 9), less ranking events etc...John should have at least one of these stats in his favour

Higgins is 3rd best at best, and even then I'd put him 4th, behind Steve Davis, Hendry and ROS.

MJW loves to diss his good friend Hendry, so I think his decision is more based on him dissing Hendry.

Nah he's actually having a discussion with the fans, they blew his tweet up lmao and not in a banter way

Well Williams clearly wrong here. As good as Higgins is, he doesnt have the titles to back it up what MJW says.

World,UK,Masters, Hendry is ahead. And in fact miles ahead. Higgins is in a position where he even Selby could surpass his TC haul soon.

Honestly, while I disagree I don’t think it’s an outrageous claim. Higgins has underperformed for sure in the UK and Masters but even so.

TheRocket wrote:Well Williams clearly wrong here. As good as Higgins is, he doesnt have the titles to back it up what MJW says.

World,UK,Masters, Hendry is ahead. And in fact miles ahead. Higgins is in a position where he even Selby could surpass his TC haul soon.

Makes zero sense, at least have one parameter in John's favour but he's got nothing over Hendry in any of the important/relevant metrics

I disagree with Mark, but I get where's he's coming from. Higgins had to compete with Ronnie from day one and vice versa. Hendry was great but he did not have the same kind of competition the class of '92 had. Also, Higgins can still do it at 45 years old, while Hendry was gone a lot earlier. Having said that, Hendry has won enough to be the 2nd best of all time.

Williams is always trying to wind Hendry up, so I wouldn't take any sly digs at Hendry that seriously. They're mates.

Fourth for me behind ROS, Hendry and the Nugget.

SnookerFan wrote:Williams is always trying to wind Hendry up, so I wouldn't take any sly digs at Hendry that seriously. They're mates.

I think he's serious here. From what I've seen he believes Higgins plays to a higher level.

However, there is no doubt Higgins would swap his career for Hendrys without hesitation. He is well behind in all of the relevant stats.

TheRocket wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:Williams is always trying to wind Hendry up, so I wouldn't take any sly digs at Hendry that seriously. They're mates.

I think he's serious here. From what I've seen he believes Higgins plays to a higher level.

However, there is no doubt Higgins would swap his career for Hendrys without hesitation. He is well behind in all of the relevant stats.

As Clive said, achievements outweigh opinion every time.

Higgins and Ronnie are a weird case in that they've both underachieved in this game even when ROS is these days making up the numbers on what he should've been years ago

but look at Higgins also

There was a 9 year gap between Higgins 1st and 2nd world title, 9 YEARS, that's an insane gap. Then he won in 07 and won every other year until 2011, then another decade worthy of no world title

ROS has a similar spread of not doing much but it's more in chunks of 3-4 years with the biggest gap being from 2014-2020, 6 years

@TheRocket

you agree with my take?

There is no doubt that Ronnie since 2012 has been making up for the lost time. Still had a great career of course until 2011 and his most titles are still from that era but hadnt won as much as he should have done.

There are actually similarities with Judd from that point of view. The way Judds been playing since 2018 you ask yourself why was he not doing this from 2011-2017. He was still a tournament winner of course but it was more like if he is on, he is really on but if not it was poor. Working with his Brother and probably the laser eye surgery was his Steve Peters moment.

Higgins has also underachieved but I dont think hes has done that much worse than he should have done with his ability. Higgins has a little bit the problem which Selby has. Not to that degree but still a problem. More often than not he cant defeat opponents easily. He comes through close matches and it just takes a lot out of him. To have a week like this and crush opponents like that is a rare moment for him which he also admitted in his interview.

ZZZZZZZZ............

What Williams says doesn't change record books. He is an irrelevant Welsh ****.

In hundred years time when Williams is dead, when I am dead, when you are dead, the record books will remain. There will probably be a 15 time Chinese World Champion by then.

Please don't use that word Vodka, thanks.

Dan-cat wrote:Please don't use that word Vodka, thanks.

vodkadiet1 wrote:In hundred years time when Williams is dead, when I am dead, when you are dead, the record books will remain.

But everyone who reads them will be irrelevant.

I think Higgins has done enough to make a debate over who is better out of him and Hendry. But he hasn’t done enough to win that debate.

I think Higgins is firmly the third best player of all time. He is better than Davis but behind O’Sullivan and Hendry.

For me, whether Higgins is in third or fourth place depends on if we're talking about the best players or the greatest players. I've no doubt Higgins is the better player, but Davis has had a much greater impact upon the game.

Standards undoubtedly rise, albeit maybe not that much in the past fifteen years. You could therefore say that quite a few players are better than Steve Davis, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins, Ray Reardon, but, are they greater? Absolutely not. That is why neither Trumpy or Robertson, the singular world champions, would get in my top ten.

TheRocket wrote:Well Williams clearly wrong here. As good as Higgins is, he doesnt have the titles to back it up what MJW says.

World,UK,Masters, Hendry is ahead. And in fact miles ahead. Higgins is in a position where he even Selby could surpass his TC haul soon.

He doen't have to have the titles. Both at their best, Higgins obliterates Hendry. No matter how great a breakbuilder you are, when you don't get a chance to score, you can't win.

McManusFan wrote:For me, whether Higgins is in third or fourth place depends on if we're talking about the best players or the greatest players. I've no doubt Higgins is the better player, but Davis has had a much greater impact upon the game.

Great post.
GOAT and BOAT are entirely different things

Johnny Bravo wrote:

TheRocket wrote:Well Williams clearly wrong here. As good as Higgins is, he doesnt have the titles to back it up what MJW says.

World,UK,Masters, Hendry is ahead. And in fact miles ahead. Higgins is in a position where he even Selby could surpass his TC haul soon.

He doen't have to have the titles. Both at their best, Higgins obliterates Hendry. No matter how great a breakbuilder you are, when you don't get a chance to score, you can't win.

Who cares if Higgins has the higher peak level?

Hendry has won 3 more Worlds, 2 more UKs,4 more Masters, 5 more ranking titles. Higgins would swap his career for Hendrys if he could.

Johnny Bravo wrote:

McManusFan wrote:For me, whether Higgins is in third or fourth place depends on if we're talking about the best players or the greatest players. I've no doubt Higgins is the better player, but Davis has had a much greater impact upon the game.

Great post.
GOAT and BOAT are entirely different things

They're entirely the same thing. How the players would do if they were in the Big Brother house is of zero concern to me.

TheRocket wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:

TheRocket wrote:Well Williams clearly wrong here. As good as Higgins is, he doesnt have the titles to back it up what MJW says.

World,UK,Masters, Hendry is ahead. And in fact miles ahead. Higgins is in a position where he even Selby could surpass his TC haul soon.

He doen't have to have the titles. Both at their best, Higgins obliterates Hendry. No matter how great a breakbuilder you are, when you don't get a chance to score, you can't win.

Who cares if Higgins has the higher peak level?

Debatable in any event. I don't think I ever saw Higgins deliver a performance as good as Hendry's in the 1993 world final. Or the 1995 UK final. Obliterates? Don't talk soft.

TheRocket wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:

TheRocket wrote:Well Williams clearly wrong here. As good as Higgins is, he doesnt have the titles to back it up what MJW says.

World,UK,Masters, Hendry is ahead. And in fact miles ahead. Higgins is in a position where he even Selby could surpass his TC haul soon.

He doen't have to have the titles. Both at their best, Higgins obliterates Hendry. No matter how great a breakbuilder you are, when you don't get a chance to score, you can't win.

Who cares if Higgins has the higher peak level?

Hendry has won 3 more Worlds, 2 more UKs,4 more Masters, 5 more ranking titles. Higgins would swap his career for Hendrys if he could.

Higgins doesn't have the higher peak level. Higgins has never played as well as Hendry did in the 93 world final.

Johnny Bravo wrote:

McManusFan wrote:For me, whether Higgins is in third or fourth place depends on if we're talking about the best players or the greatest players. I've no doubt Higgins is the better player, but Davis has had a much greater impact upon the game.

Great post.
GOAT and BOAT are entirely different things

this explains why my feta tasted funny.

I feel sorry for bingtao, knowing he’s got to upset a lot of people by dislodging 1 of the 2 best players ever

Why are we ignoring Bagley?