by rekoons » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Thought it would be interesting to visualize the final win % of some players over their career to put things in perspective.
Data derived from Wikipedia and put in excel graph: major & minor ranking and non ranking finals, past and current, but omitted amateur finals.
You can draw your own conclusions but I think it’s clear Judd’s not there yet: at the 42 finals mark he’s at 64.3%, above Higgins (57.1%), but behind Ronnie and Hendry (both coincidently at 69%), Selby at 59.5%.
For Trump to reach the 69% mark, he would have to win 7 consecutive finals again, or 9 out of the next 10.
Last edited by
rekoons on 23 Feb 2021, edited 2 times in total.
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by rekoons » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Crap, something going wrong. The graph was there but is gone now. I used filebin because imgBB (what I normally use) doesn't seem to be working...
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by chengdufan » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Jordan Brown
100%
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by rekoons » 23 Feb 2021 Read
chengdufan wrote:Jordan Brown
100%
Was actually going to include that, but forgot.
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by HappyCamper » 23 Feb 2021 Read
I think Trump has pretty strong biphasic performance. Up until late 2018 winning about half—ish. Since then there has been a marked improvement.
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by LDS » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Hendry has won 35 odd rankers, yes? (give or take a couple), has a 69% win rate, but has appeared in 119 finals? Those stats don't add up.
Did you mean to write: major & minor ranking finals, non-ranking finals, past and current but omitted amateur finals?
Rather than just rankers?
Or am I missing something?
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by rekoons » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Yes you’re right: ranking and non ranking!
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by LDS » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Also, would be interesting if you included Robertson as well, he's got bag loads of finals. Just for interest reasons.
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by The_Abbott » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Mark King must be 100% too
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by Alex0paul » 23 Feb 2021 Read
The_Abbott wrote:Mark King must be 100% too
He lost two other finals
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by Dragonfly » 23 Feb 2021 Read
I couldn't be bothered working out percentage etc, but of the bigger names in the sport Doherty has a poor finals record. I seem to recall him losing loads of major finals
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by HappyCamper » 23 Feb 2021 Read
The_Abbott wrote:Mark King must be 100% too
Michael Georgiou , even has 100% frames record!
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by SnookerEd25 » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Alex0paul wrote:The_Abbott wrote:Mark King must be 100% too
He lost two other finals
Dominic Dale another 100%'er?
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by Juddernaut88 » 23 Feb 2021 Read
I think only doing conversions based on players that have reached a minimum of 10 finals in terms of fairness :)
This will rule out the likes of Jordan Brown, Dominic Dale etc
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by TheRocket » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Dragonfly wrote:I couldn't be bothered working out percentage etc, but of the bigger names in the sport Doherty has a poor finals record. I seem to recall him losing loads of major finals
He has a poor record but to be fair he was unlucky playing in the same era as Hendry, O'Sullivan, Higgins and Williams who were all in their prime.
He worst defeat in a big final was probably the Masters final to Stevens in 2000. The other finals he lost to the Big4.
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by SnookerEd25 » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Doherty has a 6-11 record in ranking finals (to date
), compiled thus :
v. Jimmy White 0-1
Alan McManus 1-1
Peter Ebdon 0-2
Stephen Hendry 2-1
John Higgins 1-2
Mark Williams 1-2
Paul Hunter 1-1
Ronnie O’Sullivan 0-1
And of course those 2 consecutive Masters final defeats to Higgins & Stevens
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by Juddernaut88 » 23 Feb 2021 Read
SnookerEd25 wrote:Doherty has a 6-11 record in ranking finals (to date
), compiled thus :
v. Jimmy White 0-1
Alan McManus 1-1
Peter Ebdon 0-2
Stephen Hendry 2-1
John Higgins 1-2
Mark Williams 1-2
Paul Hunter 1-1
Ronnie O’Sullivan 0-1
And of course those 2 consecutive Masters final defeats to Higgins & Stevens
So that means his win ratio in finals is 35.29%
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by LDS » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Juddernaut88 wrote:SnookerEd25 wrote:Doherty has a 6-11 record in ranking finals (to date
), compiled thus :
v. Jimmy White 0-1
Alan McManus 1-1
Peter Ebdon 0-2
Stephen Hendry 2-1
John Higgins 1-2
Mark Williams 1-2
Paul Hunter 1-1
Ronnie O’Sullivan 0-1
And of course those 2 consecutive Masters final defeats to Higgins & Stevens
So that means his win ratio in finals is 35.29%
No, that list doesn't include his non-rankers, to which there are dozens.
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by Dan-cat » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Great thread Rekoons, lovin' these stats.
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by Alex0paul » 23 Feb 2021 Read
Dott’s record is marmite
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by rekoons » 24 Feb 2021 Read
Chart getting a bit crowded after addition of Robbo and Ding.
Last edited by
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by Reg Varney » 24 Feb 2021 Read
Alex0paul wrote:Dott’s record is marmite
To be fair, in the major events (not including stuff like the Shoot Out, Prague World Series etc.) he's ran into Hendry (twice), O'Sullivan, Robertson (twice), Higgins and Williams.
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by SnookerEd25 » 24 Feb 2021 Read
Graeme Dott's Ranking finals record is 2-8, compiled thus :
v. Stephen Hendry 0-2
John Higgins 0-1
Ronnie O'Sullivan 0-1
Peter Ebdon 1-0
Jamie Cope 1-0
Neil Robertson 0-2
Mark Williams 0-1
Michael Georgiou 0-1 (shoot-out!)
He has also lost 2 minor ranking finals, to Ben Woolaston & Mark Selby, and has not contested an invitational final of any note; his best run in the Masters was a semi-final defeat to Mark Selby, in a decider, in 2013 - he hasn't played in it since then.
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by SnookerEd25 » 24 Feb 2021 Read
Yep, top home schooling from Prop there
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by SnookerEd25 » 24 Feb 2021 Read
LDS wrote:SnookerEd25 wrote:Yep, top home schooling from Prop there
Oh hell, please tell me he's not a teacher, because he's fantastically wrong.
I meant rubbish home schooling
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by LDS » 24 Feb 2021 Read
rekoons wrote:Chart getting a bit crowded after addition of Robbo and Ding.
That's excellent, that shows that most 'more normal' regular champions tend to even out at around a 60%, while Hendry and O'Sullivan are more anomalous with just a 10% difference. Trump's seems to be evening out right in the middle, which is probably why he's in the position he is, psychologically, because, yes, he is 'better than normal', but, no, he's not quite 'record breaker anomaly' standard [at least so far].
"Why won't you treat me like a Hendry and O'Sullivan" - "because you're not them yet".
"But I am better than everyone else" - "Yes, yes you are".
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by rekoons » 24 Feb 2021 Read
LDS wrote:rekoons wrote:Chart getting a bit crowded after addition of Robbo and Ding.
That's excellent, that shows that most 'more normal' regular champions tend to even out at around a 60%, while Hendry and O'Sullivan are more anomalous with just a 10% difference. Trump's seems to be evening out right in the middle, which is probably why he's in the position he is, psychologically, because, yes, he is 'better than normal', but, no, he's not quite 'record breaker anomaly' standard [at least so far].
.
I think you're spot on here.
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by rekoons » 06 Apr 2022 Read
Update since February 2021 for season 2021/2022 up to WC.
New 21/22 data points marked in red for clarity.
Robertson going up 60.5% --> 62.5%
Ronnie struggling to not dip below Hendry’s line 64.8 --> 64.5 %
Trump staying about equal 65.1--> 65.2 %
Selby very slightly up thanks to his WC win 60.0 --> 60.9 %
Higgins plummeting 56.2 --> 53.7%
I now wonder how Willams and steve davis’ line would look like.
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by GeF » 06 Apr 2022 Read
Can't see Lisowski on the graph.
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by Johnny Bravo » 06 Apr 2022 Read
rekoons wrote:Chart getting a bit crowded after addition of Robbo and Ding.
Ronnie should have the red line on the graph, he's "The Rocket".
Higgins should be pink.
Robbo yellow, cause he's from down under and cause of his hair.
Trump is purple, cause he's electric with his fancy shots.
Ding is green, like a Chinese dragon.
Hendry is blue, cause he had good bottle
Selby is brown, cause ...
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