Genuine Ranking final upsets against a top player ?

One that springs to mind is when Chaperon beat Higgins as he was considered an genuine outsider I think?

When it comes to a final that has been contested between say a top 3 ranked player and someone who has never made a final or very few finals they usually end up losing due to the fact they are playing someone who is considered a top player and just that final hurdle is too much for them.

Racking my brains for examples, I guess you would have to say Murphy in the WC 2005 final but then again at that point Stevens wouldn't have been one of the top top players?

I'm not sure if the Higgins/Chaperon would have been the equivalent today of roughly a top 5 player vs a player outside of the top 64?

One part of the criteria that I forgot to add is that the victory final has to be the players only ranking event win of their whole career, surely that pre requisite would make chaperone the clear winner? I won't add anymore things onto the criteria I promise!

It's actually difficult to think of an equivalent happening before or since that 1987 final?

I'm sure there are examples of it happening, I just think it's rare that someone from outside the top 32/64 ranked players comes up against a top 3 ranked player in a ranking final and wins in recent years anyway, yes you get players who are ranked outside of the top 16 but those players are there or there abouts during the season, perhaps reaching quarter finals at least every now and then.

matches come into your mind like Johnson vs Davis 1986 WC final but that wouldn't cut it as Johnson was an established player at that time, I'm not sure who Chaperon's equivalent would be today? perhaps it wasn't as bigger surprise as I have it in my mind.

Ricky Walden winning the 2008 Shanghai Masters v ROS
Mark King winning the 2016 NI Open v Barry Hawkins

Hamilton beating Carter in Germany?

Andre147 wrote:Ricky Walden winning the 2008 Shanghai Masters v ROS
Mark King winning the 2016 NI Open v Barry Hawkins

Where was walden ranked at that time?

King beating Hawkins I would say doesn't fit as King would have been in the top 32 at that time.

Alex0paul wrote:Hamilton beating Carter in Germany?

Carter wasn't ranked in the top 3 was he, plus Hamilton had been a top 16 player prior to that win or at least top 32, put it this way, it wasn't a shock him winning that match was it.

Andre147 wrote:Ricky Walden winning the 2008 Shanghai Masters v ROS
Mark King winning the 2016 NI Open v Barry Hawkins

So far though, the Walden win is the best example, was him beating ROS as surprising as Chaperon beating Higgins?

shanew48 wrote:

Andre147 wrote:Ricky Walden winning the 2008 Shanghai Masters v ROS
Mark King winning the 2016 NI Open v Barry Hawkins

So far though, the Walden win is the best example, was him beating ROS as surprising as Chaperon beating Higgins?

I would say so.

It was Walden's first ever ranking event final, he was outside Top 32, and he won it against Ronnie O'Sullivan, of all people. In that tournament he beat Hendry, Steve Davis, Neil Robertson and Selby too.

According to Wikipedia Dave Harold was ranked 93 when he beat world number 15 Darren Morgan in the ‘93 Asian Open. I know Morgan wasn’t top 3 but that’s still pretty monumental.

But the best example I can think of is Dominic Dale who if Wikipedia is right was ranked 54 when he beat the world number 2 John Higgins in the 1997 Grand Prix.

And Walden was given a wildcard to that tournament as well, beat Zhang Anda in that round.

Iranu wrote:According to Wikipedia Dave Harold was ranked 93 when he beat world number 15 Darren Morgan in the ‘93 Asian Open. I know Morgan wasn’t top 3 but that’s still pretty monumental.

But the best example I can think of is Dominic Dale who if Wikipedia is right was ranked 54 when he beat the world number 2 John Higgins in the 1997 Grand Prix.

So far it's between Dale and Walden, I think so far Dale just gets the nod.

Dale winning was a massive shock to me, more than even Walden beating O’Sullivan. Ding beating Hendry in the 2005 China Open final was pretty sensational.

For the enormity of the occasion and the length of the match, Johnson beating Davis in 1986 was a huge, huge upset. It was one of those pairings that you had Davis chalked down for a fourth world title before it even started.

Ronnie O'Sullivan was outside the top 50 when he won the 1993 Uk Championship beating World No.1 Hendry.

John Higgins won three ranking titles while ranked 51 but that's down to the ranking system.

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:Ronnie O'Sullivan was outside the top 50 when he won the 1993 Uk Championship beating World No.1 Hendry.

That has to be up there. A 17-year-old becoming the youngest ever winner of a ranking event by beating World no.1 Stephen Hendry in his absolute prime 10-6 in the UK Championship. You can't get a bigger upset than that, in my opinion.

I do remember waking up at like 7am on that Sunday morning in April 2005 to watch the China Open final, Hendry got off to a good start leading 3-1, then it all went downhill and young Ding Junhui beat him :( I still felt Hendry would win at least few more ranking title for the next few years but unfortunately he would not win one ever again.

Terry Griffiths when he won the World title in 1979 was the first time he'd played in the event and as such was unseeded and had to go though 2 qualifying rounds to even get to the first round.

This still stands today as one of the greatest 'outsider' victories of all snooker time.

Another rarely mentioned one regarding an outsider was Chris Small winning the LG cup in 2002, defeating John Higgins, RoS and then Alan McManus in the final. He'd never been in the top16 prior to this and was the 29th seed going into this event.

Juddernaut88 wrote:I do remember waking up at like 7am on that Sunday morning in April 2005 to watch the China Open final, Hendry got off to a good start leading 3-1, then it all went downhill and young Ding Junhui beat him :( I still felt Hendry would win at least few more ranking title for the next few years but unfortunately he would not win one ever again.

Some good shouts but I'm looking for more in the sense of someone who was an also ran before causing the shock and then who continued to be an also ran for the rest of their career after the shock, I still think the chaperon one is the greatest example of that?

shanew48 wrote:

Juddernaut88 wrote:I do remember waking up at like 7am on that Sunday morning in April 2005 to watch the China Open final, Hendry got off to a good start leading 3-1, then it all went downhill and young Ding Junhui beat him :( I still felt Hendry would win at least few more ranking title for the next few years but unfortunately he would not win one ever again.

Some good shouts but I'm looking for more in the sense of someone who was an also ran before causing the shock and then who continued to be an also ran for the rest of their career after the shock, I still think the chaperon one is the greatest example of that?

I've no doubt you can narrow the specifics of the objective to a point where, yes, Chaperon is the one you're looking for, after all, you're the one setting the criteria, and the criteria is you want to prove chaperon is the idea example of the thing you're looking for.

You know, a closed circle proposition...

LDS wrote:Terry Griffiths when he won the World title in 1979 was the first time he'd played in the event and as such was unseeded and had to go though 2 qualifying rounds to even get to the first round.

This still stands today as one of the greatest 'outsider' victories of all snooker time.

I agree with that, especially when you consider the fact that Griffiths route to the Final in Sheffield included Perrie Mans (Number 2 seed and former runner-up), Alex Higgins (a former champion who had also been to the Final), Eddie Charlton who'd been to two Finals + been a challenger for the title before and Dennis Taylor who despite appearing in his first final had been to the Semi-Finals twice before 1979.

Another rarely mentioned one regarding an outsider was Chris Small winning the LG cup in 2002, defeating John Higgins, RoS and then Alan McManus in the final. He'd never been in the top16 prior to this and was the 29th seed going into this event.[/quote]

That's an interesting shout actually. I seem to remember that there were loads of upsets during the week but Small was brilliant in how he seemed to despatch them with ease. I think he beat Higgins 5-1, Ronnie 5-1, Jimmy Michie 6-2 and pulled away from 4-4 in the evening session to win the final against McManus 9-5.

PLtheRef wrote:

LDS wrote:Terry Griffiths when he won the World title in 1979 was the first time he'd played in the event and as such was unseeded and had to go though 2 qualifying rounds to even get to the first round.

This still stands today as one of the greatest 'outsider' victories of all snooker time.

I agree with that, especially when you consider the fact that Griffiths route to the Final in Sheffield included Perrie Mans (Number 2 seed and former runner-up), Alex Higgins (a former champion who had also been to the Final), Eddie Charlton who'd been to two Finals + been a challenger for the title before and Dennis Taylor who despite appearing in his first final had been to the Semi-Finals twice before 1979.

Another rarely mentioned one regarding an outsider was Chris Small winning the LG cup in 2002, defeating John Higgins, RoS and then Alan McManus in the final. He'd never been in the top16 prior to this and was the 29th seed going into this event.

That's an interesting shout actually. I seem to remember that there were loads of upsets during the week but Small was brilliant in how he seemed to despatch them with ease. I think he beat Higgins 5-1, Ronnie 5-1, Jimmy Michie 6-2 and pulled away from 4-4 in the evening session to win the final against McManus 9-5.[/quote]

Obviously Griffiths went on to become a household name so doesn't really fit the criteria, of course the small victory was impressive also but for the purposes of this it's not so much a performance throughout a whole tournament, in fact for the purposes of this search it will in some ways be more impressive if they come through under the radar and have a nice route to the final where they are obviously then expected to get beaten.

The higgins/chaperone final was in 1987 I think? does anyone know where they were were both ranked at the time of that final?

LDS wrote:Terry Griffiths when he won the World title in 1979 was the first time he'd played in the event and as such was unseeded and had to go though 2 qualifying rounds to even get to the first round.

This still stands today as one of the greatest 'outsider' victories of all snooker time.

Another rarely mentioned one regarding an outsider was Chris Small winning the LG cup in 2002, defeating John Higgins, RoS and then Alan McManus in the final. He'd never been in the top16 prior to this and was the 29th seed going into this event.

Small was my first thought on seeing this thread. I knew he had won a ranker, but didn't know who he had beat so was going to wiki it if he hadn't yet been mentioned.

LDS wrote:

shanew48 wrote:

Juddernaut88 wrote:I do remember waking up at like 7am on that Sunday morning in April 2005 to watch the China Open final, Hendry got off to a good start leading 3-1, then it all went downhill and young Ding Junhui beat him :( I still felt Hendry would win at least few more ranking title for the next few years but unfortunately he would not win one ever again.

Some good shouts but I'm looking for more in the sense of someone who was an also ran before causing the shock and then who continued to be an also ran for the rest of their career after the shock, I still think the chaperon one is the greatest example of that?

I've no doubt you can narrow the specifics of the objective to a point where, yes, Chaperon is the one you're looking for, after all, you're the one setting the criteria, and the criteria is you want to prove chaperon is the idea example of the thing you're looking for.

You know, a closed circle proposition...

I just thought it was a particularly surprising win in the sense that he wasn't very well known before and not very well known after, I think that was the element I was referring to, can't really see an equivalent in recent years, if indeed that final was in effect a top 3 ranked player getting beaten in a ranking final by someone effectively ranked outside the top 64, that's why I'm wondering where he was ranked at the time, I'm guessing there weren't as many professionals on tour at that time as there are now though.

One part of the criteria that I forgot to add is that the victory final has to be the players only ranking event win of their whole career, surely that pre requisite would make chaperone the clear winner? I won't add anymore things onto the criteria I promise!

shanew48 wrote:One part of the criteria that I forgot to add is that the victory final has to be the players only ranking event win of their whole career, surely that pre requisite would make chaperone the clear winner? I won't add anymore things onto the criteria I promise!

You don't have to, it's pretty clear to us you've made your mind up that Chaperone caused the biggest upset. I wouldn't agree, but it's all down to what facts you want to highlight.

Andre147 wrote:

shanew48 wrote:One part of the criteria that I forgot to add is that the victory final has to be the players only ranking event win of their whole career, surely that pre requisite would make chaperone the clear winner? I won't add anymore things onto the criteria I promise!

You don't have to, it's pretty clear to us you've made your mind up that Chaperone caused the biggest upset. I wouldn't agree, but it's all down to what facts you want to highlight.

I'm open to hearing about similar ensamples but they seem difficult to find so far.

It would seem that the Chaporne was a one off then with nothing to rival it, the closest being Dale beating Higgins when Higgins was rank 2 and Dale ranked 57 at the time, Dale didn't go on to be very close to breaking into the top 16 in future years though.

Overall it shows what a rare thing Chaperone achieved when you put it into context of his career before and after that final win.

Nigel Bond beating John Higgins to win the British and Doug Mountjoy beating Hendry in the UK were massive shocks at the time

Bob Chaperon?