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MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

http://snookerscene.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... ising.html

The Snooker Players Association made a number of recommendations to the WPBSA at a meeting held in Sheffield last week.

The SPA is now headed by Patsy Fagan, the inaugural UK champion, who seems to me to be motivated by the right reasons.

Fagan was a player for many years and now coaches. He doesn’t have to spend his time involved with SPA business.

Among the points put to WPBSA chairman Jason Ferguson was that a number of players would prefer the PTCs to be more spread out through the season and for some of them to be played during the week rather than at weekends.

The tournament calendar is largely determined by TV but the WPBSA gave an undertaking to space the events out more next season.

The SPA reported that most players approved of the new ranking system but that a number would prefer more events where the top 16 were not seeded through to the last 32.

Again, this is largely down to TV. If a broadcaster begins its coverage in the last 32, they want the top names guaranteed to be in that round rather than having to pre-qualify.

The SPA put forward a proposal to ban player managers from sitting on the WPBSA board, saying “managers have an obligation to act in the best interests possible for their players at all times. Should a player manager be appointed onto the board of the WPBSA, decisions that he makes could be beneficial to his players which could in turn be detrimental to other players.”

The problem with this is that in snooker there is no proper licensing of managers. I could hook onto a player and call myself his manager, so defining who exactly is a manager and whether that would then disqualify them from holding a board position is not straightforward.

There are two management groups in snooker with a large stable of players – 110sport and On Q Promotions – but no actual evidence that their clients vote en bloc.

However, 110sport’s Lee Doyle is among those standing for election at December’s WPBSA AGM and it is not unreasonable to assume he will ask his clients for support.

The SPA also wants full voting rights extended from the top 64 in the rankings to all 96 players.

I’m all for the SPA as a voice for players but the tail must not wag the dog. Snooker, like any sport, depends on its biggest names to attract broadcasters, sponsors and audiences.

The lower rankers ganging up on the top players and attempting to artificially ‘level’ the playing field would be against the game’s wider interests.

The playing field is level enough as it is. Every player currently in the top 16 started at the bottom. They are at the top now because they are the best players.

Interestingly, with regards to the recently aborted EGM the SPA said: “We were informed by certain players, who had put their names to these resolutions, that they were not fully aware of what they were signing and agreeing to.”

This would appear to provide further evidence that players should stay out of politics if they did not even properly read what they were signing.

It does not seem to have been discussed but the first thing I would change is the rule that you only need 10% of the voting membership to call an EGM. This amounts to around seven players.

If you made it 33% (roughly 23 players) it would mean that EGMs were only called on issues where there was a genuine strong feeling among players, giving them some actual legitimacy.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

interesting points

i think there wont be changes to how players are seeded that was changed a few years back because of sponsors and now with rolling rankings it makes even more sense to have top 16 seeds seeded to TV it gives incentive to other players through PTC and the season to reach that level.

Yes PTC got to be spread more over the season this season 12 PTC would have been played between 25th of June and 21 of November that's 5 months surely some could be played in January and February.

Managers on the WPBSA Board well at the end of the day Barry Hearn is a Manager of Steve Davis and Spa wanted him Chairman not to mention having Brendan Moore and Pat Mooney on the board so its a bit rich however i do agree with it...but there should be existing players on the Board but then if that existing player has a Manager how would that be worked if say Ebdon as a 110 sport player was on the Board wouldn't that be the same as having Lee Doyle there at the end of the day ?

and as for this
Interestingly, with regards to the recently aborted EGM the SPA said: “We were informed by certain players, who had put their names to these resolutions, that they were not fully aware of what they were signing and agreeing to.”


<doh> <doh> <doh>

how thick is that <doh>

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Monique

Certainly food for thoughts.

Regarding the PTC being more spread and played during the week I personally think it would be a good idea in particular if those events that are played without an audience. Dominic Dale in his last blog entry pointed out that those events are great but that as they are organised this season it might be difficult for players with a family to find a proper balance. Kids are at school during the week and if parents have the opportunity to have quality time with them it's during week-ends. Vey often fathers who are divorced or separated get custody of their kids over week-end days also, an for the same reason mainly.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Casey

Can't say I agree with that Monique, its a professional sport at the end of the day so tournaments should not be scheduled to suit players lifestyles.

I'm guessing they are referring to PTC events but if they are to be streamed, better over the weekends when more people can watch and also boosting the chances of sponsors.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Casey

However, 110sport’s Lee Doyle is among those standing for election at December’s WPBSA AGM and it is not unreasonable to assume he will ask his clients for support


I thought he had pulled out? :huh2:

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Monique

Well you might see things a bit differently in a few years Case, if you have kids yourself. It's not just the players' lifestyle, it's also the kids well-being. Players are ordinary men and women, with everyone's needs and aspirations. As it is with the full scale tournaments and the EPTCs played in front of an audience it's already a good number of week-ends that are "taken". So if it can be made a bit easier for the players and their families with PTCs played during the week why not? One of the beauties of "streams" is that they are easy to record and store for later viewing. More matches could actually be made available than just those streamed "live" and people could watch them when it suits them. They could even be made downloadable. After all, as it is now, most matches in full scale tournaments are played during the week and those that are televised can't be watched during daytime by those who work or go to school.
Last edited by Monique on 19 Oct 2010, edited 1 time in total.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

i think there should be a mixture of events mid and weekends .

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Witz78

Golfers play every weekend !!! They are dedicated to their sport and accept its par for the course (pardon the pun!)

Snooker has t0 cut out the slack and pander to the players every needs if its to properly grow.

And as for Doyle wanting to worm his way back into the WPSBA, surely the players will see through this.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Monique

Sorry Witz, there might be golf tournaments every week- end but not every Golf player plays every week- end. There are enough events and there is enough money for them to manage their season.
If snooker wants to expand it is in my opinion more important to improve Internatiomal TV coverage, to adapt schedules so that more people can follow it, to provide recorded streaming rather than to play cubicle events over week-ends.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Casey

Monique wrote:Sorry Witz, there might be golf tournaments every week- end but not every Golf player plays every week- end. There are enough events and there is enough money for them to manage their season.
If snooker wants to expand it is in my opinion more important to improve International TV coverage, to adapt schedules so that more people can follow it, to provide recorded streaming rather than to play cubicle events over week-ends.


Monique, thats true Golfers don't play every week, however they still play over more weekends than snooker players whilst travelling alot further around the World more often.

Snooker players are in a privileged position, I am sure none of them would want to go back part time and 7 tournaments a year. For the single parents and those with other family issues I think it would be best if they received the tournament calender well in advance so they can make arrangements.

Its not like I don't feel for those players in the circumstances mentioned but look at the likes of Doctors, firemen, night workers and all people on shifts. many of these only get their rota a couple of weeks in advance, could you imagine them asking their employer only to work during the week......

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

mon

footballers play boxing day.

a professional sport cant organise a tour round families.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Casey

StalinESQ wrote:perhaps ROS cannee get a baby sitter, we had the same trouble ourselves............. :redneck:


<laugh> <laugh>

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Mike Highway

How're we all?

Ah, the poor misfortunes are getting overworked now, are they? Three days work every other week for a possible ten grand. Tis tough going. Or Neil Robertson getting 100k for winning 17 frames?

I used to work five days a week, sometimes six, real tough work twas too, but work is hard to come by now for a bricklayer. I would kill to get my full week back, and have a bit more cash for the family.

If the poor snooker players are overworked, then I'm the son of a leprechaun <ok>

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

StalinESQ wrote:perhaps ROS cannee get a baby sitter, we had the same trouble ourselves............. :redneck:

maybe that's why he walked out on Hendry the Baby sitter couldn't do the day of the semi finals rofl

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Smart

Mike Highway wrote:How're we all?

Ah, the poor misfortunes are getting overworked now, are they? Three days work every other week for a possible ten grand. Tis tough going. Or Neil Robertson getting 100k for winning 17 frames?

I used to work five days a week, sometimes six, real tough work twas too, but work is hard to come by now for a bricklayer. I would kill to get my full week back, and have a bit more cash for the family.

If the poor snooker players are overworked, then I'm the son of a leprechaun <ok>


good evening Mr Highway :wave:

Do you do any tarmacing work....................cos my drive might need doing in a few months time <ok>

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Mike Highway

Bring the driveway to me, twould be handier <ok>

I won't turn down the job at all at all young fella, but make sure to have plenty cider in the fridge. We're thirsty hoors down Tipperary way ;)

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Monique

It's not about working only during the weeks, that's never what I implied and that's not what those players ask for. It's obvious that when events are played in front of an audience, evenings and week-ends are the best schedules. However that's not the case for PTCs and as such if something can be done to allow a better balance between career and family life why not do it? I don't get your "point" at all.
As for the "baby sitter" story, I know that you are teasing me but, now, seriously, if people have kids to have them raised by baby sitters, friends, relatives etc ... and being absent parents themselves it's no good. We are not speaking of a couple of hours here and now, we are talking days in a row.

@Mr Highway ... because of course the guys never practice, don't have other duties (especially the top players) like promo work? And nothing is more enthralling than planes, trains, busses, hotel rooms, waiting in airports, waiting in stations, hanging around venues and waiting more... especially when you've done it for about 20 years or more. I'm afraid many here have a very naïve and idealised perception of what it means to be a sportsperson.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Tubberlad

Okay, obviously I don't have children myself, and I don't hope to have any for a good few years.

That said, I would like to think I know how important a person's kids are to them, what it means to be a mother/father and how you want to spend a lot of time with them, especially while they're young.

If there are players (and no doubt there are) who don't get to see their children during the week, only on weekends, then of course, that's tough on them. And it's got to be even tougher when those weekends are taken up by work commitments... hotel rooms, plane flights, travelling etc are not going to compare to spending time with your nearest and dearest.

That said: most of these men dreamed of playing snooker. They did that, and then they wanted to do it more often. As it stands, we have seven ranking events, the Masters, a minimum requirement of six PTCs or EPTCS (to make the finals), and the PTC finals. That's fifteen weekends of 52, and lets be honest, ot many of them are going to do 15 unless they make all seven ranking semi-finals.

The job they are doing is not tough, it's a dream for many. Many people around the world without full access to their kids miss their weekends, and have tougher jobs. Why do you work? To make a living, for you and for your loved ones.

Those who can only spend time with their children at the weekend, tough as it may be, are ulitmately very much in the minority. Things seem okay as they are to me as reguards the current system in snooker.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Roland

I've not read through the comments but I read the original piece and I agree with it entirely. About the PTC events taking place during the week - if the idea is to get the matches streamed and play in front of an audience then they should definitely finish at the weekend, it's a no brainer. But if they carry on like they have been behind closed doors then it doesn't matter if they are played Monday-Friday although it doesn't really sit with what being a professional sportsman is all about.

No one should forget that without a fanbase and an audience, sport is completely unimportant in life. I was the world champion pebble thrower into the River Wharf last month but only I know that. I didn't get a trophy or prize money but I was the only entrant.

Being a professional snooker player is meaningless without outside interest. Outside interest peaks during weekends because it's when the vast majority of those contributing to the economy have a couple of days off and want to enjoy themselves and be entertained and sport is in the entertainment industry.

If the PTC events finally get with the live streaming and allow paying members of the public to watch as SWSA are doing then you cannot hold the climax of the event during the working week.

:santa:

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

yes spot on that should be where the PTC has to strive to get to so with that in mind it has to come to a climax at the weekend and sooner players get used to that the better.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Tubberlad

I personally prefer when sporting events finish midweek, but for selfish reasons: it means time off school ;) Cheltenham week being the prime example.

But for work reasons (this event will surely have audiences next year, and already does for the European ones), it's gotta be weekend, also it makes much more sense from an interest standpoint.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Monique

Tub you should revise your maths ...
The WC itself covers 3 week-ends, the UK covers 2, the 2 rankers in China ask for traveling a bit beforehand ... that's 2 more. A player who wants to commit to all events will play some 26 week-ends out of the 52. And then there might be additional events: the PL final week-end, the Power Snooker, the double World Championship ...
Of course they dreamed from being snooker players, but as you will discover yourself, people evolve over time, priorities change. Yes they work to make a good living for themselves and their families. But what good is that if they have no time to actually "live" with their loved ones?
BTW I have exactly the same opinion about those people who invest everything into their career and forget to live. One day they discover it's too late. I'm not kidding.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

fair point mon however a Governing Body the same as a multi million pound industries cant bow down to Families it has to move on and players got to move with it or find something else to do thats their choice the sport cant think that little johnny missing daddy.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Tubberlad

And that's why Maths is my worst subject by a country mile <laugh> yes, your absolutely right.

But, my thoughts on this stay the same. Those who can only see their children at the weekend, as tough as this is for them, are very much in the minority here... majority rules.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

im absalutly numblowingly stuned here we are actually talking about Snooker Players being overworked :?

WOW

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:
Being a professional snooker player is meaningless without outside interest. Outside interest peaks during weekends because it's when the vast majority of those contributing to the economy have a couple of days off and want to enjoy themselves and be entertained and sport is in the entertainment industry.



Yes outside interest peaks during week-ends. That doesn't prevent most major football (soccer) international matches to be played on week days ... of course it's evening, but week days. It's been like that for many, many years and I've never heard people complaining about it. It's all a question of organisation and habits.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Tubberlad

wildJONESEYE wrote:im absalutly numblowingly stuned here we are actually talking about Snooker Players being overworked :?

WOW

I think it's ridiculous... I can only agree with you Wild.

Take horseracing as an example: jockeys work most days of the week, most weeks of the year, do an awful lot more travelling than snooker players and work a lot more weekends than snooker players. Are we going to stop weekend racing for the sake of fathers who can only spend time with their kids at the weekend? No, it's a ridiculous suggestion.

I feel very sorry for any man who can't spend as much time as they would like with their young lad or little girl, if I put myself in that situation in a few years time, I would feel bad, very bad. Your children are obviously among the most important people in your lives, but sometimes sacrifices must be made.

EDIT: Time spent with them, not your actual children <laugh>

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Wildey

OK how about

Tuesday and Wednesday the Last 128,64 and 32 and Play the Last 16 through to the end on the Saturday with PL Matches in between on a Thursday.

thats possible in this country maybe not in Europe.

Re: MATTERS ARISING

Postby Roland

Exactly - weekday evenings. I hate it when I'm at work and I'm missing out on good snooker matches taking place during the day on a week. It always happens on BBC televised events, they always put the match you want to see on first. That was one good thing about the World Open - I could watch the first match in its entirety during my lunch break.

As for snooker players playing over 26 weekends - only the ones who reach the latter stages consistently. And for those events which span across several weekends - well the players get days off between matches at the early stages when the rest of us are at work.


   

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