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Best players of a era !

Postby Wildey

With Judd Trump, Mark Selby and Neil Robertson now emerging as the Dominant forces in the game pushing each other on to win tournament it got me thinking of the Greatest 3 or 4 players of past generations.

Here's my take on it in no particular order

1970-1979 Ray Reardon, John Spencor, Alex Higgins

1980-1989 Steve Davis, Alex Higgins, Cliff Thorburn, Terry Griffiths, Stephen Hendry, Jimmy White

1990-1995 Stephen Hendry, Steve Davis, Jimmy White, John Parrott

1995-2003 Stephen Hendry, John Higgins, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Mark Williams

2004-2009 John Higgins, Ronnie O'Sullivan

2010-2016 John Higgins, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Mark Selby, Neil Robertson

2017-2020 Judd Trump, Mark Selby, Neil Robertson, Ronnie O'Sullivan

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Acé

Those eras are wrong, Wikipedia actually has it right

(1981-1989) Steve Davis era
(1990-1999) Stephen Hendry era
(2000-2013) Class of 92' era
(2014-2017) Mark Selby era
(2018-2020) Return of the veterans era (this is a strange one and it's coincided with Judd's era from 2019 but ROS and Williams have dominated more so I think)

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Acé

so if i was gonna pick 3 greatest players of the eras it'd be

1980-1989 - Davis, Alex Higgins, Thorburn
1990-1999 - Hendry, White, Parrot/Davis
2000-2013 - ROS, Higgins, Williams
2014-2017 - Selby, ROS, Ding
2018-2020 - Trump, ROS, Robertson

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby GeF

Holden Chinaski wrote:Ronnie O'Sullivan.

Are you talking about era 1975-2050 ?

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby LDS

You could add Eddie Charlton to the 70s era there Wildy, sure, he didn't win the cup, but he was one of the top 4 major contenders throughout the decade and even before that decade and just after it. A Jimmy White for the 70s really.

Definitely add Dennis Taylor to the 80s.

I'd add Mcmanus to the early 90s and possibly Wattana

95-03 you'd have to include Ebdon and Doherty, surely? Maybe even Hunter and Stevens?

And for 04-16 it seems a bit rough to exclude Murphy, maybe you could include Ali Carter at a small stretch.

10-16 you'd have to include Ding? No?

Going by your descriptive criteria anyhow.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby badtemperedcyril

Reardon and Spencer were head and shoulders above the rest in the 70’s. True, Higgins had spasms of brilliance but was for the most part, inconsistent. Charlton, was dogged and consistent but definitely a notch below the other three. As part of the Australian organisation committee, he tried to rig the draw in the November 1970 to ensure a safe passage to the final but it back fired as he lost to Simpson. Nevertheless, it deprived us of a Reardon - Spencer Final. In 75, staged in Australia by “Eddie Charlton Promotions”, he again rigged the draw, scandalously seeding Spencer EIGHT, so that he’d play Reardon in the quarters and Higgins FOUR so that he’d play Reardon in the semi. He seeded himself as TWO, on the back of being runner up two years previously, thereby avoiding all the big hitters until the final. He even tried to gain an advantage in the final by having a Brunswick table installed - his favourite. His antics in manipulating the 75 draw were further reaching because the WPBSA used the results of the previous three World Championships when they introduced the official ranking list for the 1977 event. With Spencer having also fallen at the quarters in 76 (to Higgins), he again found himself as lowly as EIGHT and thus drew Reardon again in the quarter final at the Crucible. So you could say, the snooker world was deprived of a Reardon v Spencer World final on at least three occasions, all because of Eddie Charlton’s draw fixing.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Muller

I would go as follows.


1969-79 - Reardon, Spencer, Higgins, Charlton, Mans.

1979-89 - Davis, Thorburn, Griffiths, Higgins, Taylor, White.

1989-97 - Hendry, White, Parrot, Davis,

1997- 2005 - O'Sullivan, Higgins, Williams, Doherty, Hunter, Ebdon, Stevens

2005 - 2013 - O' Sullivan, Higgins, Robertson, Dott, Murphy.

2013 - present - Selby, Trump, Robertson, O' Sullivan, Bingham.



Not saying it is definitive by any means but seems to me to highlight some eras more competitive than others.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Wildey

LDS wrote:You could add Eddie Charlton to the 70s era there Wildy, sure, he didn't win the cup, but he was one of the top 4 major contenders throughout the decade and even before that decade and just after it. A Jimmy White for the 70s really.

Definitely add Dennis Taylor to the 80s.

I'd add Mcmanus to the early 90s and possibly Wattana

95-03 you'd have to include Ebdon and Doherty, surely? Maybe even Hunter and Stevens?

And for 04-16 it seems a bit rough to exclude Murphy, maybe you could include Ali Carter at a small stretch.

10-16 you'd have to include Ding? No?

Going by your descriptive criteria anyhow.


Regarding Charlton that's a fair shout


With Dennis Taylor he probably replaced Alex Higgins
ie
1980-1984 Alex Higgins
1984-1989 Dennis Taylor

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Wildey

Muller wrote:I would go as follows.


1969-79 - Reardon, Spencer, Higgins, Charlton, Mans.

1979-89 - Davis, Thorburn, Griffiths, Higgins, Taylor, White.

1989-97 - Hendry, White, Parrot, Davis,

1997- 2005 - O'Sullivan, Higgins, Williams, Doherty, Hunter, Ebdon, Stevens

2005 - 2013 - O' Sullivan, Higgins, Robertson, Dott, Murphy.

2013 - present - Selby, Trump, Robertson, O' Sullivan, Bingham.



Not saying it is definitive by any means but seems to me to highlight some eras more competitive than others.

Sorry the likes of Stevens and Dott hardly won anything to be included lol

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Wildey

badtemperedcyril wrote:Reardon and Spencer were head and shoulders above the rest in the 70’s. True, Higgins had spasms of brilliance but was for the most part, inconsistent. Charlton, was dogged and consistent but definitely a notch below the other three. As part of the Australian organisation committee, he tried to rig the draw in the November 1970 to ensure a safe passage to the final but it back fired as he lost to Simpson. Nevertheless, it deprived us of a Reardon - Spencer Final. In 75, staged in Australia by “Eddie Charlton Promotions”, he again rigged the draw, scandalously seeding Spencer EIGHT, so that he’d play Reardon in the quarters and Higgins FOUR so that he’d play Reardon in the semi. He seeded himself as TWO, on the back of being runner up two years previously, thereby avoiding all the big hitters until the final. He even tried to gain an advantage in the final by having a Brunswick table installed - his favourite. His antics in manipulating the 75 draw were further reaching because the WPBSA used the results of the previous three World Championships when they introduced the official ranking list for the 1977 event. With Spencer having also fallen at the quarters in 76 (to Higgins), he again found himself as lowly as EIGHT and thus drew Reardon again in the quarter final at the Crucible. So you could say, the snooker world was deprived of a Reardon v Spencer World final on at least three occasions, all because of Eddie Charlton’s draw fixing.

Did you know Alex Higgins had a 19-11 head to head with Ray Reardon in the 70s for a young player at the time to get the best over Ray Reardon just showed how great a player Alex could have been but life took over and the rest is the legend of Alex Higgins.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby badtemperedcyril

Wildey wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Reardon and Spencer were head and shoulders above the rest in the 70’s. True, Higgins had spasms of brilliance but was for the most part, inconsistent. Charlton, was dogged and consistent but definitely a notch below the other three. As part of the Australian organisation committee, he tried to rig the draw in the November 1970 to ensure a safe passage to the final but it back fired as he lost to Simpson. Nevertheless, it deprived us of a Reardon - Spencer Final. In 75, staged in Australia by “Eddie Charlton Promotions”, he again rigged the draw, scandalously seeding Spencer EIGHT, so that he’d play Reardon in the quarters and Higgins FOUR so that he’d play Reardon in the semi. He seeded himself as TWO, on the back of being runner up two years previously, thereby avoiding all the big hitters until the final. He even tried to gain an advantage in the final by having a Brunswick table installed - his favourite. His antics in manipulating the 75 draw were further reaching because the WPBSA used the results of the previous three World Championships when they introduced the official ranking list for the 1977 event. With Spencer having also fallen at the quarters in 76 (to Higgins), he again found himself as lowly as EIGHT and thus drew Reardon again in the quarter final at the Crucible. So you could say, the snooker world was deprived of a Reardon v Spencer World final on at least three occasions, all because of Eddie Charlton’s draw fixing.

Did you know Alex Higgins had a 19-11 head to head with Ray Reardon in the 70s for a young player at the time to get the best over Ray Reardon just showed how great a player Alex could have been but life took over and the rest is the legend of Alex Higgins.
I did know that, yes. The real Higgins was the one who exploded onto the scene in 1972/72 but his inspiration had burnt out within 18 months. He only ever beat Ray in short matches, never in the World Championship. Not until their 82 final anyway, but they were both past their sell-by-date then.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Juddernaut88

D4P wrote:Next season - Yan Bingtao


Should I keep an eye on him next season then?

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby D4P

Juddernaut88 wrote:
D4P wrote:Next season - Yan Bingtao


Should I keep an eye on him next season then?


Definitely.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Juddernaut88

Wildey wrote:
Muller wrote:I would go as follows.


1969-79 - Reardon, Spencer, Higgins, Charlton, Mans.

1979-89 - Davis, Thorburn, Griffiths, Higgins, Taylor, White.

1989-97 - Hendry, White, Parrot, Davis,

1997- 2005 - O'Sullivan, Higgins, Williams, Doherty, Hunter, Ebdon, Stevens

2005 - 2013 - O' Sullivan, Higgins, Robertson, Dott, Murphy.

2013 - present - Selby, Trump, Robertson, O' Sullivan, Bingham.



Not saying it is definitive by any means but seems to me to highlight some eras more competitive than others.

Sorry the likes of Stevens and Dott hardly won anything to be included lol


Especially consider he missed out Hendry from 1997-2005 despite the fact Hendry won a ranking event every season apart from 2000-2001 in that timeframe lol.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Muller

Leaving out Hendry for 97-05 was oversight, meant to include him!

OK, Dott only has that one WC but he lost in 2 finals as well.

Stevens reached 2 WC finals and 4 semis. He did win the Masters and the UK.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby snucar

Wildey wrote:Sorry the likes of Stevens and Dott hardly won anything to be included lol


What did White win in the 80s?

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Pink Ball

snucar wrote:
Wildey wrote:Sorry the likes of Stevens and Dott hardly won anything to be included lol


What did White win in the 80s?

The Masters, The Classic, The British Open, The Grand Prix, The Irish Masters (twice), The Scottish Masters. So, basically, six of the eight most prestigious tournaments.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby snucar

Pink Ball wrote:
snucar wrote:
Wildey wrote:Sorry the likes of Stevens and Dott hardly won anything to be included lol


What did White win in the 80s?

The Masters, The Classic, The British Open, The Grand Prix, The Irish Masters (twice), The Scottish Masters. So, basically, six of the eight most prestigious tournaments.


I stand corrected, I tend to forget that some of these tournaments were quite prestigious indeed, even without being ranking events. Good call!

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby Pink Ball

snucar wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
snucar wrote:
Wildey wrote:Sorry the likes of Stevens and Dott hardly won anything to be included lol


What did White win in the 80s?

The Masters, The Classic, The British Open, The Grand Prix, The Irish Masters (twice), The Scottish Masters. So, basically, six of the eight most prestigious tournaments.


I stand corrected, I tend to forget that some of these tournaments were quite prestigious indeed, even without being ranking events. Good call!

No worries. Not your fault.

Unfortunately that's what happens when the BBC whitewashes 30 years of snooker history, sadly.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby chengdufan

Steve Davis' era of domination didn't begin until 1984.
I'd say the 70s group continued to 1982, then you had a few years of Knowles, S Davis, Reardon, Griffiths and Higgins.
The Davis era from 84 on was a different group, including Taylor.

You could consider adding Mountjoy to the 89-97 group.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby badtemperedcyril

Between late 1980 and losing at the Crucible to Knowles in 82, Davis absolutely obliterated everyone. I’d make that single period his single most dominant of his career. He was winning so emphatically against the best of his competitors - the Coral UK for instance, where he beat Griffiths 9-0 and 16-3 in 80 and 81 respectively; 9-0 against White; 16-6 v Higgins; 9-0 in the Jameson final v Taylor... just examples I pick from the top of my head but very typical of the overwhelming landslide of his taking over from, not just the old guard (Reardon, Spencer, Higgins, Thorburn) but also those coming through with him (White, Griffiths, Meo, Stevens etc).

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby SnookerFan

Where's that bird meme, where the one guy is talking about Robertson and then a crow turns up and starts blabbering about Ronnie's 147 in five minutes?

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby chengdufan

badtemperedcyril wrote:Between late 1980 and losing at the Crucible to Knowles in 82, Davis absolutely obliterated everyone. I’d make that single period his single most dominant of his career. He was winning so emphatically against the best of his competitors - the Coral UK for instance, where he beat Griffiths 9-0 and 16-3 in 80 and 81 respectively; 9-0 against White; 16-6 v Higgins; 9-0 in the Jameson final v Taylor... just examples I pick from the top of my head but very typical of the overwhelming landslide of his taking over from, not just the old guard (Reardon, Spencer, Higgins, Thorburn) but also those coming through with him (White, Griffiths, Meo, Stevens etc).

Davis was clearly the best player at that time, but I dispute that he obliterated everyone. You may be reading too much into his Wikipedia article.
Between late 80 and the 82 WC he lost to:
Perrie Mans
John Virgo
Jimmy White twice
Ray Reardon 0-6
and Terry Griffiths no fewer than 4 times, including a 9-2 thrashing.

I don't think it's fair to Reardon and Griffiths to say that Davis' taking over was an overwhelming landslide when Reardon whitewashed him in that period and Griffiths was his match most of the time.

And this was when there weren't that many tournaments.

I just think he was more clearly dominant from 84 on, and that the group of players challenging him earlier in the decade was a different bunch from those later on, and so the classification could perhaps be different.

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby rekoons

SnookerFan wrote:Where's that bird meme, where the one guy is talking about Robertson and then a crow turns up and starts blabbering about Ronnie's 147 in five minutes?


Here you go Snookerfan:

Image

Re: Best players of a era !

Postby badtemperedcyril

chengdufan wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Between late 1980 and losing at the Crucible to Knowles in 82, Davis absolutely obliterated everyone. I’d make that single period his single most dominant of his career. He was winning so emphatically against the best of his competitors - the Coral UK for instance, where he beat Griffiths 9-0 and 16-3 in 80 and 81 respectively; 9-0 against White; 16-6 v Higgins; 9-0 in the Jameson final v Taylor... just examples I pick from the top of my head but very typical of the overwhelming landslide of his taking over from, not just the old guard (Reardon, Spencer, Higgins, Thorburn) but also those coming through with him (White, Griffiths, Meo, Stevens etc).

Davis was clearly the best player at that time, but I dispute that he obliterated everyone. You may be reading too much into his Wikipedia article.
Between late 80 and the 82 WC he lost to:
Perrie Mans
John Virgo
Jimmy White twice
Ray Reardon 0-6
and Terry Griffiths no fewer than 4 times, including a 9-2 thrashing.

I don't think it's fair to Reardon and Griffiths to say that Davis' taking over was an overwhelming landslide when Reardon whitewashed him in that period and Griffiths was his match most of the time.

And this was when there weren't that many tournaments.

I just think he was more clearly dominant from 84 on, and that the group of players challenging him earlier in the decade was a different bunch from those later on, and so the classification could perhaps be different.

I honestly don't think I've ever looked at Steve's wiki page - too many errors on wiki. I watch documentaries, read books and all the Snooker Scene magazines. From from the late 70's when Steve first starts to appear in Pro-Ams and challenge matches at the Luciana club in Romford, he becomes more and more prominent. You get a sense of the wave of Davis-ism sweeping over the snooker world. All the players knew, here was a machine, that on top form, nobody could live with. You are right, he did lose a few but he was more aggressive then - perhaps giving away too many chances when things weren't going his way?


I know a lot of people will not agree but I honestly think Steve was a better player during that period I mentioned. His cue action was more natural and free flowing. By 1983 it had become very wooden. He tended to be ultra cautious, taking very few risks and usually employing a game plan whereby he'd literally screw his opponent into the floor with long bouts of safety and then counterpunching at the end. So many of his frames became scrappy affairs with the balls awkwardly placed. The problem with playing to that strategy is that it can become very tiring, mentally and physically and I think that is where he got caught out in some of his long frame matches... The 83 UK Final (v Higgins), 84 World Final (v White) and 85 World Final (v Taylor). Having built up such a huge lead he found his reserves of concentration dwindling and therefore, his opponent was able to get back into the match. I'm absolutely certain that the free flowing Davis of the 1980/81/82 period would never have let those big leads slip, in fact he'd have gone on to win at a canter.