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Who do you rate as the greater player?

Ding Junhui
15
37%
Shaun Murphy
26
63%
 
Total votes : 41

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Ding has the higher peak, thus he is better.
But Smurf has won snookers's ultimate trophy, the WC, and that makes him greater. Ding would need to have double the tourneys that Smurf has won in order to surpass that.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby TheRocket

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Iranu wrote:It’s Ding. Better in every department except potting.

It's irrelevant if he's better or not.
This is about who's greater, meaning who has achieved more.


Exactly this. Thats why I created this poll.

I would still say that playing to a higher level/peak level is obviously a greatness factor and plays a big part.

But so does achievements.

And as it is, Ding has a higher peak level and has done better in the non-World events. 3 UK's, 1 Masters and 14 rankers.

Murphy has "only" won 9 rankers but he's also won the UK and Masters once and he's won the most important one, the World title which Ding hasnt.

If you ask people which CV you'd choose most people would probably prefer Murphys.

So imo its a close call who the greater player is.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby TheRocket

SnookerFan wrote:Well, if it's about who has achieved more, why is this a poll?

That isn't open to opinion, you just look at their event wins and there's your answer.


Ding has won more rankers and UK's. Murphy has won the World title. Ding done better in the non WC events while Murphy can call himself a World Champion and one of 11 players who won the so called Triple Crown.

So there isnt an obvious answer who has achieved more. Its up to debate.

Its not like Ronnie or Hendry vs a random player where its blatantly obvious.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Cloud Strife wrote:It's Ding. Better in every department except potting and mental strength.

Again, that's irrelevant. Greatness is more about achievements, not about who's better.
Last edited by Johnny Bravo on 31 Oct 2020, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

TheRocket wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
Iranu wrote:It’s Ding. Better in every department except potting.

It's irrelevant if he's better or not.
This is about who's greater, meaning who has achieved more.


Exactly this. Thats why I created this poll.

I would still say that playing to a higher level/peak level is obviously a greatness factor and plays a big part.

But so does achievements.


I agree with you. Greatness is determined by 3 key factors:
1. Achievements (titles, record, longevity, opposition faced etc) - which is the most important factor and accounts for about 50%
2. Peak form/level - 25%
3. Impact on the sport 25%

TheRocket wrote:If you ask people which CV you'd choose most people would probably prefer Murphys..

And this is the reason Smurf shades it

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

SnookerFan wrote:Well, if it's about who has achieved more, why is this a poll?

That isn't open to opinion, you just look at their event wins and there's your answer.

Smart man SnookerFan :hatoff: :spot on:

But it's a poll cause not everyone sees achievements as the main criteria for determining greatness. Plus many don't understand the difference between being the best and being the greatest.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

For those of you who don't know what greatness is, let me enlighten you :chuckle: <cool>

Trump's peak form is clearly better than that of Steve Davis, Ray Reardon and even John Higgins.
Yet almost no one on this forum will say Trump is greater than them. He still has a long way to go until he can compare.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby chengdufan

I think it's closer than people have been making out, but it is Ding.

When people look back on snooker history, Ding will be mentioned and remembered.
Murphy will have been forgotten.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Pink Ball

Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Well, if it's about who has achieved more, why is this a poll?

That isn't open to opinion, you just look at their event wins and there's your answer.

Smart man SnookerFan :hatoff: :spot on:

But it's a poll cause not everyone sees achievements as the main criteria for determining greatness. Plus many don't understand the difference between being the best and being the greatest.

I sure as hell don’t.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Iranu

Is Peter Ebdon also a greater player than Ding?

How about Ken Doherty, or Stuart Bingham? And are they greater players than Jimmy White?

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Iranu

Also you could argue that Ding has had the biggest impact on the sport of any player currently on the tour with the possible exception of Jimmy.

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Iranu wrote:Is Peter Ebdon also a greater player than Ding?

It's pretty close. Career wise, I'd choose Ebdon's cause he won the WC.
Ding has the better peak form and impact on the sport.
Ding will probably go down as greater, but at the moment it can go either way.

Iranu wrote:How about Ken Doherty, or Stuart Bingham? And are they greater players than Jimmy White?

For some people yes, for others no.

For me it's Jimmy, but that's due to the fact that Jimmy has reached 6 WC finals and has had a far bigger impact on the sport than almost any other player, with the exception of ROS and Higgins (I'm talking about Alex of course, not the fat c.h.e.a.t).

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Iranu wrote:Also you could argue that Ding has had the biggest impact on the sport of any player currently on the tour with the possible exception of Jimmy.

His impact is artificially magnified by the fact that he's Chinese and China has a huge population.
Ding hasn't had a bigger impact on the tour than the 3 Kings: Alex, Jimmy and Ronnie. Judd is next in line to the throne succession and after ROS retires he will become the 4th king

Re: Who do you rate as the greater player?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Well, if it's about who has achieved more, why is this a poll?

That isn't open to opinion, you just look at their event wins and there's your answer.

Smart man SnookerFan :hatoff: :spot on:

But it's a poll cause not everyone sees achievements as the main criteria for determining greatness. Plus many don't understand the difference between being the best and being the greatest.

I sure as hell don’t.

The best player in the sport is the one who can play to the highest level/standard, the one with the highest peak form, regardless of what he wins or how long his career lasts.
The greatest is determined by taking into account 2 extra factors apart from peak form: achievements and impact on the sport.