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Using the rest..

Postby randam05

A big weakness for me, when on a good break, I stumble across having to get the rest out. Soon as I do this, if the pot is slightly difficult, I know I have missed before attempting and tell myself break over. Then I do miss. Now, it could be lack of confidence, but even if in practice or whatever I still cannot pot the balls with the bloomin thing. I guess im cueing across it, but find it hard to correct myself.

Any help would be great thanks. :D

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Witz78

It sounds like a mental block you have with the rest. All in the head really.

I must admit ive a high percentage of success normally with the rest. I tend to find i play best with the rest if i screw the cueball, most shots with the rest you tend to have to play them this way right enough. Best to just get down and go with your first instinct rather than dwell too long down on the shot with the rest if this means self doubt creeps in.

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Smart

Don't try to be too fancy with the rest, I mean try and leave yourself with easy(ish) type shots that require little "action" on the cueball. The more action you require the more likelihood of the shot going wrong/being blobbed. GL <cool>

Re: Using the rest..

Postby randam05

Cheers guys, practice with the rest i suppose is a good idea? to get my confidence up?

Having a table at home helps, I can just play a whole frame(s) against myself with the rest and stuff like that.

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Sickpotter

The rest is probably the most dreaded implement in the game.

Many a break has finished with me going :wild2: after missing a simple rest shot.

One only has to look at Matthew Stevens switching to his wrong hand to play (and miss) a shot to see how far even some pros go to avoid using it. Dennis Taylor worked hard at being able to play with both hands just to avoid the rest. I can use it OK but I wouldn't rank myself as one of the better rest players, most likely because I've rarely spent any time practicing them.

Tips for rest play.....I haven't seen much of anything written in instructional books on proper use. The few bits I have seen have discussed multiple methods but nothing concrete. The basic gist that I got was that it's pretty much whatever feels comfortable for you.

Could you send me a video of your current rest action, it might help me spot something. Try to do plain straight shots, it's easiest to see if you're mis-hitting the shot.

Input for now:

Many players discount using their "wrong hand" for playing rest shots and IMO that's a mistake. I'm a bit of an oddity in that snooker is the only thing I play left-handed, I'm righty for everythign else. Consequently I'm actually comfortable with the rest cue action with my "wrong hand". I've seen right handed players switch to left when using the rest. I've even come accross players who use their wrong hand for rest shots even though they never use that hand for anything else.

Just because you're right or left handed doesn't mean you have to use the rest with that hand. Determining which hand is most comfortable would be the best starting point. Have you ever tried switching hands or have you just worked on using your normal cueing arm?

In my experience I find the biggest issue I have is not looking at the object ball while shooting. I think it's a subconcious fear of striking the cueball wrong which has me focusing on the cue ball and not the object ball. In short, lack of practice has me second guess my stroke on any given day if my first rest shot goes wrong and from that point on I worry too much about cueball contact instead of object ball.

Now, on days when I'm able to ignore the cueball and just focus on the object ball my percentages go way up. Trusting my cue delivery is everything. If my rest action feels awkward I stop trusting my delivery and stop looking at what I should be looking at...the object ball.

My suggestion for now would be to spend some time practicing the typical rest shots that come up in a game and send me a video. Focus on the object ball when delivering the cue.

Some like their cueing arm elbow low which gives you a dart like action. Hendry plays this way and TBH it's the method I've found I'm most comfortable with, it allows me to "throw" the cue at the target. I throw much more accurately overhand than side-hand.

Some like their cueing arm virtually parallel to the table (sideways action). My issue with this is it takes your normal cue action and turns it sideways which tends to make one hit across the ball rather than through it if they can't release the entire arm properly. That's where I get into trouble because I try to limit my arm movement to the forearm. If one can get the whole arm invovled then you can play this way without hitting accross the cueball but it's not a very natural action..at least for me anyway.

The grip is very important. You absolutely do not want to be holding the cue too tight, it will prevent a straight through release of the cue. I don't know if you've played any golf but the basic premise of holding a golf club applies to holding a snooker cue, be it a normal shot or a rest shot. You should hold the cue like you're holding an egg. Not so lightly that you'll let go but lightly enough so that you wouldn't break it. Tension is a real killer with the rest. If it can make you snatch a normal shot it just gets magnified with the rest :scared:

You have a pretty long cue action....does that happen with the rest as well? A shorter backswing is usually very helpful I've found.

In the end it's all about which action you can comfortably make. You can drop your elbow low for the dart-style action, you can have it in the middle and I've even seen some who have it high. Play around with each hand and with your elbow in different spots. You'll find one that feels comfortable or at least less awkward than the rest and that's the one you should focus on practicing.

Regards,
Rob

Re: Using the rest..

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

Fabulous question Randam. <ok> Brave question to take on SP, Top Notch mate. <ok>

Randam, See the rest you use, make sure the bridge is the heavy part of the rest. What makes the rest shot real difficult to play is holding the rest perfectly still when you play the shot. The harder you hit the white, the harder it is to control the rest. That's the common fault & where the distrust when using the rest, the control. Because you have your own table, what you've got to do, if the rests you've got aren't the rests with the 4 screw bits at the end of each point, then your not using the best rests out there. You need weight in the rest.

If I've joined a few dots for you, then you'll know what to do now, which means starting from scratch, playing 20 roll in straight reds, the white no more that 6 inch's away from the red, placed easiest as you feel, work from there, to stun, then screw, then playing the pot from an angle.

The important part of using the rest, or the secret, is ensuring the rest doesn't move when you play the shot. This ensures maximum accuracy & control.

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Smart

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:Fabulous question Randam. <ok> Brave question to take on SP, Top Notch mate. <ok>

Randam, See the rest you use, make sure the bridge is the heavy part of the rest. What makes the rest shot real difficult to play is holding the rest perfectly still when you play the shot. The harder you hit the white, the harder it is to control the rest. That's the common fault & where the distrust when using the rest, the control. Because you have your own table, what you've got to do, if the rests you've got aren't the rests with the 4 screw bits at the end of each point, then your not using the best rests out there. You need weight in the rest.

If I've joined a few dots for you, then you'll know what to do now, which means starting from scratch, playing 20 roll in straight reds, the white no more that 6 inch's away from the red, placed easiest as you feel, work from there, to stun, then screw, then playing the pot from an angle.

The important part of using the rest, or the secret, is ensuring the rest doesn't move when you play the shot. This ensures maximum accuracy & control.


Good advice from JFLT there, echoing my thoughts of building up from basic shots with the rest to more complex shots. Get your confidence up first then venture to more difficult shots where more action is required on the cue-ball. <cool> :idea: <cool> :idea:

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Eirebilly

Cheers John and SP. I also have probs with the rest, not for full ball contact but for when i am trying to put some effect on the ball i.e screwback, so your advice is going to be tried out today. Will let you know how it goes <ok>

Re: Using the rest..

Postby randam05

Sickpotter, I picked up a lot of BRILLIANT advice when reading through what you had to say. I am definantley right handed with the rest as I am without, theres no doubt about that. Dropping the elbow also helps a lot. Video of my exisiting cue action compared to what I have done with your advice, on the way in the next couple of days..ish.

JFLT, also great advice there, never thought about that really. Will concentrate on holding the rest down firmly and pracitce becoming more comfortable gradually increasing the difficulty.

Cheers guys,

Re: Using the rest..

Postby randam05

Okay heres some shots, some good some pooooooor. Trying out a few different techniques, but the one i use mainly is my normal one. Now i dont know if you notice this too, but I seem to pot more when stunning or screwing, rather than rolling in gently. Dont know why, but just doing the video has helped me notice things like that, so helped out already.

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Witz78

randam05 wrote:Okay heres some shots, some good some pooooooor. Trying out a few different techniques, but the one i use mainly is my normal one. Now i dont know if you notice this too, but I seem to pot more when stunning or screwing, rather than rolling in gently. Dont know why, but just doing the video has helped me notice things like that, so helped out already.



always far easier to pot with the rest stunning or screwing, i think the fact you force the cue through gives the cue and your hand holding the rest less time to move offline so you have a greater accuracy likeliehood.

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Sickpotter

Just a few quick notes....I haven't had time to watch the video yet. I'll give you some video specific input ASAP.

Rolling a ball is tough, rest or no rest. Is it easier to firmly hit a shot or just roll the ball in? For most, it's much easier to keep your cue action straight with a firm shot. I'd say it's easier for everyone but I haven't quite managed to watch them all yet ;)

On perfectly straight shots, instead of rolling softly through to where you want to go, hit a stun-run through. This will help you to keep your cue action straight. On slightly angled pots run right through and use the rails for shape. You'll be moving the cueball more but it'll be easier because you can stroke the ball firmly.

Whether you're using the rest or not, playing rolly-polly shots is risky. Aside from the difficulties in keeping the cue action straight, kicks become more evident (and damaging) and nerves become more likely to affect your cueing.

I'll post a few more thoughts once I've had time to review your video, apologies it's been a busy day :roll:

Re: Using the rest..

Postby randam05

sickpotter wrote:Just a few quick notes....I haven't had time to watch the video yet. I'll give you some video specific input ASAP.

Rolling a ball is tough, rest or no rest. Is it easier to firmly hit a shot or just roll the ball in? For most, it's much easier to keep your cue action straight with a firm shot. I'd say it's easier for everyone but I haven't quite managed to watch them all yet ;)

On perfectly straight shots, instead of rolling softly through to where you want to go, hit a stun-run through. This will help you to keep your cue action straight. On slightly angled pots run right through and use the rails for shape. You'll be moving the cueball more but it'll be easier because you can stroke the ball firmly.

Whether you're using the rest or not, playing rolly-polly shots is risky. Aside from the difficulties in keeping the cue action straight, kicks become more evident (and damaging) and nerves become more likely to affect your cueing.

I'll post a few more thoughts once I've had time to review your video, apologies it's been a busy day :roll:


You are very right SP, I do prefer to roll the balls myself, but it has actually proved better punching with stun run through.

You really do know what you are talking about. No problem about not having time, im in no hurry, I admire you for being bothered to give such good advice for free, so no matter how late your response, it will be highly appreciated.

<ok> cheers,

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Sickpotter

Well I had a look at the video and I think you're hitting the ball pretty well. :ahh:

As mentioned earlier, avoid rolling balls whenever possible. The vast majority of ones you missed were shots you attempted to roll.

Often we take shortcuts with preshot routines when it comes to using the rest. We stretch awkwardly to avoid having to get the big rakes, we break our rythm, etc.

Make sure you approach rest shots with the same consistency as you do your regular shots. All the principles to a strong preshot routine on a normal shot applies equally if not more so to using the rest.

Not sure but on a couple of shots it looked like you were over-stretching on the follow through which makes me think perhaps you're addressing the cue ball a little further back than you should. How much space do you have between the head of the rest and the cueball? You might find more control and power by closing the distance from the head of the rest and the cueball.

Keep up the good work :mosh2:

Re: Using the rest..

Postby randam05

Cheers SP.

Yh I will definantley try not roll the rest shots anymore, thats when i get let down. Also Ive been playing around with how close I put the resthead to cueball and found a happy medium. Thanks for your help again,

randam05

Re: Using the rest..

Postby Roland

On the subject of using the rest, I used to be able to play with it but since returning to the game I've really struggled. I tried many things like lifting my elbow and having a few practice swings to make sure the cue remained on a straight line when I was hitting through the ball. Yesterday I went to the club and thought "Right, I'm going to use the rest on every shot in this frame" and I had a practice frame and half way through something clicked and I made a 30+ break using the rest on every shot and including 2 long blues and a standard length rest shot brown round the angles for the next red.

I enjoyed it so much I played the next frame with the rest as well. On shots against the cushion I put the rest on the cushion and cued down and basically stood 6ft away from the table on other shots where no one would use the rest. By the end I had such a feel for it the next frame I played properly when I needed the rest I wasn't just trying to hit plain ball and make the pot and hope to be on a colour, I was using screw and side and hitting the object ball sweet.

The only downside is that at one point I dropped the cue from a fair height and it hit the floor tip first and proceeded to do about 10 tip/butt/tip/butt hits of the floor before it came to rest. For the rest of the session every time I knocked my cue I could hear a metallic buzz noise which in the end I worked out was due to the ferrule coming loose so now before I play again I need to take it to be repaired. :irk: