by Pink Ball » 18 Sep 2020 Read
And so, it all comes down to this. You have five days to vote.
Ronnie O'Sullivan 17-16 Mark Selby, World Championship 2020 (2)
VERSUS
Stephen Hendry 18-17 Jimmy White, World Championship 1994 (4)
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by SnookerFan » 18 Sep 2020 Read
Gee, I wonder which one will win?
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by TheRocket » 18 Sep 2020 Read
voted Hendry-White 1994. It was the pinnacle of the iconic Hendry-White rivalry which obviously had the nightmare ending we all still remember. For me its the 2nd greatest match. Only topped by Davis-Taylor 1985.
O'Sullivan-Selby is 3rd. And A.Higgins-White 4th.
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by Andre147 » 18 Sep 2020 Read
I voted Hendry v White too, for the same reason TR explained above.
Still can't quite believe though just a month ago we had one of the best ever matches and it involved Ronnie v Selby no less, with a Ronnie win to make it even sweeter.
I would say Selby is Ronnie's 2nd biggest rival, Higgins being the 1st because they come from same generation.
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by SnookerFan » 18 Sep 2020 Read
I was a bit burned out by the time the final session of Ronnie vs Selby was on.
Nothing to do with either of them, but after that frame between Kyren and McGill, I was like; "Meeep".
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by Alex0paul » 18 Sep 2020 Read
I’m sure if it had been Selby winning 17-16 from 14-16 down there would hardly be a mention of it
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by SnookerFan » 18 Sep 2020 Read
Alex0paul wrote:I’m sure if it had been Selby winning 17-16 from 14-16 down there would hardly be a mention of it
Are you kidding?
Six long, torturous years we've had to listen to; "Ronnie missed a pink. Waaah!"
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by SnookerFan » 18 Sep 2020 Read
SnookerFan wrote:Alex0paul wrote:I’m sure if it had been Selby winning 17-16 from 14-16 down there would hardly be a mention of it
Are you kidding?
Six long, torturous years we've had to listen to; "Ronnie missed a pink. Waaah!"
Then again, I'm not one to complain about people repeating themselves, am I?
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by Holden Chinaski » 18 Sep 2020 Read
Alex0paul wrote:I’m sure if it had been Selby winning 17-16 from 14-16 down there would hardly be a mention of it
Don't even joke about that.
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by Pink Ball » 18 Sep 2020 Read
Alex0paul wrote:I’m sure if it had been Selby winning 17-16 from 14-16 down there would hardly be a mention of it
Well, no. Selbo would have made loads of 30 breaks and laid some bastardly snookers to win that way. Not quite the same.
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by Iranu » 18 Sep 2020 Read
Alex0paul wrote:I’m sure if it had been Selby winning 17-16 from 14-16 down there would hardly be a mention of it
Nah that’s not true. Especially if Selby had done it the way Ronnie did. But that’s not really how he wins from behind, so it’s unlikely it would ever happen.
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by Iranu » 18 Sep 2020 Read
Case in point: the 1994 final. Hendry was far more unpopular than Selby, the match featured only 1 century (although 21 50+ breaks), didn’t feature a successful comeback and the ‘wrong’ man won from the public’s point of view. But it’s still revered as a classic.
Kyren-McGill will, or should, also go down in the pantheon of great matches despite featuring lesser-known players and lower quality.
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by Pink Ball » 20 Sep 2020 Read
Tight this so far, unsurprisingly. I think the 'big four' became the 'big five' thanks to the O'Sullivan-Selby match, and that and the 1994 final are without doubt among the top five matches of all-time.
I voted for O'Sullivan-Selby myself, but either would be a fairly worthy winner.
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by Pink Ball » 20 Sep 2020 Read
Iranu wrote:Case in point: the 1994 final. Hendry was far more unpopular than Selby, the match featured only 1 century (although 21 50+ breaks), didn’t feature a successful comeback and the ‘wrong’ man won from the public’s point of view. But it’s still revered as a classic.
Kyren-McGill will, or should, also go down in the pantheon of great matches despite featuring lesser-known players and lower quality.
Two of the top-five matches -- the 1994 final and the 1982 semi-final -- I absolutely hate. I didn't exactly love seeing Alex Higgins win the 1983 UK Championship, but that was fifth. Selby-Ding was Ding's greatest shot at the world title, painful for me, but that's seventh. The 1992 final was 12th.
Many of the greatest matches of all time are matches that royally snake hissed me off.
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by Andre147 » 20 Sep 2020 Read
Pink Ball wrote:Iranu wrote:Case in point: the 1994 final. Hendry was far more unpopular than Selby, the match featured only 1 century (although 21 50+ breaks), didn’t feature a successful comeback and the ‘wrong’ man won from the public’s point of view. But it’s still revered as a classic.
Kyren-McGill will, or should, also go down in the pantheon of great matches despite featuring lesser-known players and lower quality.
Two of the top-five matches -- the 1994 final and the 1982 semi-final -- I absolutely hate. I didn't exactly love seeing Alex Higgins win the 1983 UK Championship, but that was fifth. Selby-Ding was Ding's greatest shot at the world title, painful for me, but that's seventh. The 1992 final was 12th.
Many of the greatest matches of all time are matches that royally snake hissed me off.
Why do you make 2017 as his best chance of winning the title?
In 2016 he went one round further. And don't forget in 2017 he would still have to beat Higgins.
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by Pink Ball » 20 Sep 2020 Read
Andre147 wrote:Pink Ball wrote:Iranu wrote:Case in point: the 1994 final. Hendry was far more unpopular than Selby, the match featured only 1 century (although 21 50+ breaks), didn’t feature a successful comeback and the ‘wrong’ man won from the public’s point of view. But it’s still revered as a classic.
Kyren-McGill will, or should, also go down in the pantheon of great matches despite featuring lesser-known players and lower quality.
Two of the top-five matches -- the 1994 final and the 1982 semi-final -- I absolutely hate. I didn't exactly love seeing Alex Higgins win the 1983 UK Championship, but that was fifth. Selby-Ding was Ding's greatest shot at the world title, painful for me, but that's seventh. The 1992 final was 12th.
Many of the greatest matches of all time are matches that royally snake hissed me off.
Why do you make 2017 as his best chance of winning the title?
In 2016 he went one round further. And don't forget in 2017 he would still have to beat Higgins.
He was playing far better snooker in 2017. He’d have thrashed Higgins in the final to be honest.
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by Andre147 » 20 Sep 2020 Read
Pink Ball wrote:Andre147 wrote:Pink Ball wrote:Iranu wrote:Case in point: the 1994 final. Hendry was far more unpopular than Selby, the match featured only 1 century (although 21 50+ breaks), didn’t feature a successful comeback and the ‘wrong’ man won from the public’s point of view. But it’s still revered as a classic.
Kyren-McGill will, or should, also go down in the pantheon of great matches despite featuring lesser-known players and lower quality.
Two of the top-five matches -- the 1994 final and the 1982 semi-final -- I absolutely hate. I didn't exactly love seeing Alex Higgins win the 1983 UK Championship, but that was fifth. Selby-Ding was Ding's greatest shot at the world title, painful for me, but that's seventh. The 1992 final was 12th.
Many of the greatest matches of all time are matches that royally snake hissed me off.
Why do you make 2017 as his best chance of winning the title?
In 2016 he went one round further. And don't forget in 2017 he would still have to beat Higgins.
He was playing far better snooker in 2017. He’d have thrashed Higgins in the final to be honest.
Indeed he was, and his h2h v Higgins is good.
But if you compare that to 2011, had he made the final then I think Higgins would have beaten him.
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by TheRocket » 20 Sep 2020 Read
I think Ding would have beaten Higgins in the 2011 World final.
Ding was already an established topplayer and had the experience and tactical astuteness unlike Trump who just had his breakthrough at that time. And Trump in the final lost far too many frames after having a 40 or 50 point lead, mainly because of wrong shot selection and poor tactical decisions which Higgins took full advantage of. Last year it was different and we saw the result.
2011 was a good opportunity for Ding.
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by Andre147 » 20 Sep 2020 Read
TheRocket wrote:I think Ding would have beaten Higgins in the 2011 World final.
Ding was already an established topplayer and had the experience and tactical astuteness unlike Trump who just had his breakthrough at that time. And Trump in the final lost far too many frames after having a 40 or 50 point lead, mainly because of wrong shot selection and poor tactical decisions which Higgins took full advantage of. Last year it was different and we saw the result.
2011 was a good opportunity for Ding.
So in your oppinion, had he made the Final in 2017 do you think he would win that one too?
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by TheRocket » 20 Sep 2020 Read
oh yeah definitely. Thats even a safer bet than 2011. 2011 would have been very close but I think Ding would have just won in a very close match.
In 2017 Ding probably played his best Snooker at the Crucible and he was mentally stronger than he had ever been before. Higgins on the other hand played ok, nothing special.
Another factor which speaks for Ding is the match up itself. He seems to do well against Higgins in general and knows how to play him. His H2H against the Scot is quite good. So yes, I think he would have beaten him in 2017.
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by Andre147 » 20 Sep 2020 Read
TheRocket wrote:oh yeah definitely. Thats even a safer bet than 2011. 2011 would have been very close but I think Ding would have just won in a very close match.
In 2017 Ding probably played his best Snooker at the Crucible and he was mentally stronger than he had ever been before. Higgins on the other hand played ok, nothing special.
Another factor which speaks for Ding is the match up itself. He seems to do well against Higgins in general and knows how to play him. His H2H against the Scot is quite good. So yes, I think he would have beaten him in 2017.
Me too.
And I agree on the mental part, you just have to say he beat his nemesis Ronnie O'Sullivan that year.
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by HustleKing » 20 Sep 2020 Read
TheRocket wrote:oh yeah definitely. Thats even a safer bet than 2011. 2011 would have been very close but I think Ding would have just won in a very close match.
In 2017 Ding probably played his best Snooker at the Crucible and he was mentally stronger than he had ever been before. Higgins on the other hand played ok, nothing special.
Another factor which speaks for Ding is the match up itself. He seems to do well against Higgins in general and knows how to play him. His H2H against the Scot is quite good. So yes, I think he would have beaten him in 2017.
Technically I would say he was most mentally strong at the UK 2005, when he wasn't really expected to challenge for the title and then we he got to the final, he was probably really confident of beating a decent, but aging Davis
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by Andre147 » 20 Sep 2020 Read
HustleKing wrote:TheRocket wrote:oh yeah definitely. Thats even a safer bet than 2011. 2011 would have been very close but I think Ding would have just won in a very close match.
In 2017 Ding probably played his best Snooker at the Crucible and he was mentally stronger than he had ever been before. Higgins on the other hand played ok, nothing special.
Another factor which speaks for Ding is the match up itself. He seems to do well against Higgins in general and knows how to play him. His H2H against the Scot is quite good. So yes, I think he would have beaten him in 2017.
Technically I would say he was most mentally strong at the UK 2005, when he wasn't really expected to challenge for the title and then we he got to the final, he was probably really confident of beating a decent, but aging Davis
I disagree, you can look mentally strong when nobody knows you, or very little, and even though he'd won the China Open the same year, nobody really expected him to do much there.
By 2011 and of course 2017 he was an established Top player, and he showed how strong he was when he defeated his nemesis Ronnie O'Sullivan, who he always used to lose more times than not, and really should have won his match v Selby in the Semis.
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by TheRocket » 20 Sep 2020 Read
You have to say Ding is a hard player to analyse. You look at his record in finals and he won 14 out of 20 ranking event finals. A strong 70% winning rate. Which shows that he can handle and produce under pressure. Yet no one would call him mentally strong. Because we saw him collapse in quite a few matches.
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by Andre147 » 20 Sep 2020 Read
TheRocket wrote:You have to say Ding is a hard player to analyse. You look at his record in finals and he won 14 out of 20 ranking event finals. A strong 70% winning rate. Which shows that he can handle and produce under pressure. Yet no one would call him mentally strong. Because we saw him collapse in quite a few matches.
Main problem for Ding is actually reaching those finals, because he also tends to lose in the early rounds v players he should hammer.
But once he reaches those finals, he's very hard to stop.
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by Acé » 20 Sep 2020 Read
Ding's lost to 4/5 eventual World Champions in the last 5 years thing is he was never in a winning position vs any of them, there was no collapse.
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by Andre147 » 21 Sep 2020 Read
Acé wrote:Ding's lost to 4/5 eventual World Champions in the last 5 years thing is he was never in a winning position vs any of them, there was no collapse.
He was 9-7 up in 2019 but lost to Trump 13-9. He played horrendus in that session, it wasn't a total collapse like leading 12-7 and losing the match, but he should have played much better.
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by Acé » 21 Sep 2020 Read
Andre147 wrote:Acé wrote:Ding's lost to 4/5 eventual World Champions in the last 5 years thing is he was never in a winning position vs any of them, there was no collapse.
He was 9-7 up in 2019 but lost to Trump 13-9. He played horrendus in that session, it wasn't a total collapse like leading 12-7 and losing the match, but he should have played much better.
9-7 isn't a winning position that's just 2 frames and against a calibre of player like Judd that's NOTHING
Judd played horrendous in the 2nd session, any more excuses up your sleeve?
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by SnookerFan » 21 Sep 2020 Read
Acé wrote:Andre147 wrote:Acé wrote:Ding's lost to 4/5 eventual World Champions in the last 5 years thing is he was never in a winning position vs any of them, there was no collapse.
He was 9-7 up in 2019 but lost to Trump 13-9. He played horrendus in that session, it wasn't a total collapse like leading 12-7 and losing the match, but he should have played much better.
9-7 isn't a winning position that's just 2 frames and against a calibre of player like Judd that's NOTHING
Judd played horrendous in the 2nd session, any more excuses up your sleeve?
So being ahead against somebody means you're not in a winning position?
Are you confirming Wild's false lead theory?
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