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Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby HustleKing

Decent thread, although maybe it could be reworked in today's times to discuss dozens of players who have went backwards.

Anyway, Ding has been going backwards, with very occasional highs since May 2017, so he is not a shock inclusion.

A most worthy topic of discussion to be revived, a damn shame nobody thought of it sooner ;-)

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Wildey

Wildey wrote:Jamie Cope is definitely on a upward trend at the moment but it is a bit frightening for Mark Allen and Wenbo is dropping back at a alarming rate.


Wildey wrote:
Roland wrote:All three will play their part over the next few years. Cope is definitely on the way up, Wenbo has suffered a blip (drawing Ronnie twice and Ding at the Crucible hasn't helped his cause) and Allen had a decent Crucible campaign and didn't enter the first batch of PTC so I think all three will do things this season, just wait.

but longer Allen and Wenbo goes without doing anything the pressure will mount.

Regarding Cope only Mark Williams has actually won more Ranking points than him this season he has won 10,060 points with Mark Williams on 11,140 points.



10 years ago and Mark Allen is the only one that really moved forward but not as much as his promise.

as for Jamie Cope last seen playing Q School in 2019 lost first match and pulled out of the next 2 Q School such a talent 3 147 to his name but health problems has hindered him.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby SnookerFan

I don't like using the term underachiever, because I think a snooker player achieves what they achieve in their career. Nobody has a divine right to win tournaments. A player's temperament and work-rate/dedication has just as much to do with what they win as their talent. If they have a lot of a talent, but quite a low success rate, you should consider what you're doing wrong. If it's just an issue of temperament, and you keep bottling matches, then you probably are already achieving as much as you possibly can. If it's down to you not putting the pracice in, then that's your fault that you're not achieving.

But on saying all that, if I did like using the term, I'd probably use it about Mark Allen.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby SnookerEd25

SnookerFan wrote:I don't like using the term underachiever, because I think a snooker player achieves what they achieve in their career. Nobody has a divine right to win tournaments. A player's temperament and work-rate/dedication has just as much to do with what they win as their talent. If they have a lot of a talent, but quite a low success rate, you should consider what you're doing wrong. If it's just an issue of temperament, and you keep bottling matches, then you probably are already achieving as much as you possibly can. If it's down to you not putting the pracice in, then that's your fault that you're not achieving.



If you really wanted it, SF, you could have 250,000+ posts by now. I have to question whether your heart is really in it.

And pracice? BUNGKE! :hmmm:

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:I don't like using the term underachiever, because I think a snooker player achieves what they achieve in their career. Nobody has a divine right to win tournaments. A player's temperament and work-rate/dedication has just as much to do with what they win as their talent. If they have a lot of a talent, but quite a low success rate, you should consider what you're doing wrong. If it's just an issue of temperament, and you keep bottling matches, then you probably are already achieving as much as you possibly can. If it's down to you not putting the pracice in, then that's your fault that you're not achieving.

But on saying all that, if I did like using the term, I'd probably use it about Mark Allen.

you could say everyone has underachieved you can think a pot i should have got, a frame i should have won Selby could say he underachieved last few years.


Point is as you say talent alone means rubbish you got to put in the work and have bottle and you win what you meant to win and its up to you to make the differences and ACHIEVE.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby SnookerFan

Bear in mind, up until three years ago I didn't have an i-phone.

When I first joined this forum, I didn't even have a tablet. My only way of posting was to run between the living room, and my bedroom where my PC was, every time something happened in the snooker.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby TheRocket

Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Dan-cat

SnookerFan wrote:Bear in mind, up until three years ago I didn't have an i-phone.

When I first joined this forum, I didn't even have a tablet. My only way of posting was to run between the living room, and my bedroom where my PC was, every time something happened in the snooker.


Or when you ate a Mars Bar.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Iranu

SnookerFan wrote:Bear in mind, up until three years ago I didn't have an i-phone.

When I first joined this forum, I didn't even have a tablet. My only way of posting was to run between the living room, and my bedroom where my PC was, every time something happened in the snooker.

We know. You keep telling us.

I wonder how many posts you’d have if you didn’t post about how many posts you have.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Iranu

SnookerFan wrote:I don't like using the term underachiever, because I think a snooker player achieves what they achieve in their career. Nobody has a divine right to win tournaments. A player's temperament and work-rate/dedication has just as much to do with what they win as their talent. If they have a lot of a talent, but quite a low success rate, you should consider what you're doing wrong. If it's just an issue of temperament, and you keep bottling matches, then you probably are already achieving as much as you possibly can. If it's down to you not putting the pracice in, then that's your fault that you're not achieving.

But on saying all that, if I did like using the term, I'd probably use it about Mark Allen.

Nah he’s done about right for how good he is. Maybe underachieved slightly in terms of going deep at the Crucible but he’s not World Champion material so it doesn’t really matter.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby TheRocket

Allens and Robertsons Crucible record are probably the most shocking from all the current topplayers.

Allens best result at the Crucible was one semi final back in 2009. He's had 11 attempts since then to do better and failed. Robertson is a strange one as well. His Crucible record is so poor for a player of his calibre. Just one World title which was his only World final at the same time. 10 freaking years ago.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Scooper

TheRocket wrote:Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.


He could still win one

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby TheRocket

Scooper wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.


He could still win one


Well he genuinely believes he can still win one.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Iranu

TheRocket wrote:
Scooper wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.


He could still win one


Well he genuinely believes he can still win one.

Nah he doesn’t. In the 40th anniversary Crucible doc that Davis did he said he knows he can’t really win it.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Wildey wrote:
Wildey wrote:as for Jamie Cope last seen playing Q School in 2019 lost first match and pulled out of the next 2 Q School such a talent 3 147 to his name but health problems has hindered him.

What disease is he suffering from ?!

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Johnny Bravo

TheRocket wrote:Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.

He should have never lost the 92 final. NEVER. That was his best chance.
It only went to a decider in 94 cause Hendry injured himself, otherwise he'd have won more comfortably.
But it's unforgivable that Jimmy couldn't do it in 92. He bottled it bigtime.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Pink Ball

Johnny Bravo wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.

He should have never lost the 92 final. NEVER. That was his best chance.
It only went to a decider in 94 cause Hendry injured himself, otherwise he'd have won more comfortably.
But it's unforgivable that Jimmy couldn't do it in 92. He bottled it bigtime.

Hendry’s injury had close to zero effect on his game in 1994.

1992 was certainly a bottle job, as well and all as Hendry played in the last ten frames. White was the best player in the world in 1992.

It’s not a disgrace White never won the title, though. Timing went against him, but it’s not like he was robbed by referees or anything. He lost everything on the table itself, or by acting the cockerel himself away from the table.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.

He should have never lost the 92 final. NEVER. That was his best chance.
It only went to a decider in 94 cause Hendry injured himself, otherwise he'd have won more comfortably.
But it's unforgivable that Jimmy couldn't do it in 92. He bottled it bigtime.

Hendry’s injury had close to zero effect on his game in 1994.

1992 was certainly a bottle job, as well and all as Hendry played in the last ten frames. White was the best player in the world in 1992.

It’s not a disgrace White never won the title, though. Timing went against him, but it’s not like he was robbed by referees or anything. He lost everything on the table itself, or by acting the cockerel himself away from the table.

Jimmy deserved at least 1 world title. Even a boring joke like Ebdon has one.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Dragonfly

If I remember correctly it all went wrong for White in frame 25. Leading 14-10 he just needed to roll a red in gently to leave Hendry needing a snooker. Instead he played with pace to get cue ball away from the cushion.

It was surely over if it had gone to 15-10. Not only would it be a bigger lead but White would have gained confidence. Instead the red stayed out. Hendry cleared up and White crumbled

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Pink Ball

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Jimmy White is probably the only real underachiever. 6 world finals , having lost all of them is just an unique or rare feat in any sport actually and will never be seen again. He had so much ability and its really a disgrace he has never won a World title.

He should have never lost the 92 final. NEVER. That was his best chance.
It only went to a decider in 94 cause Hendry injured himself, otherwise he'd have won more comfortably.
But it's unforgivable that Jimmy couldn't do it in 92. He bottled it bigtime.

Hendry’s injury had close to zero effect on his game in 1994.

1992 was certainly a bottle job, as well and all as Hendry played in the last ten frames. White was the best player in the world in 1992.

It’s not a disgrace White never won the title, though. Timing went against him, but it’s not like he was robbed by referees or anything. He lost everything on the table itself, or by acting the cockerel himself away from the table.

Jimmy deserved at least 1 world title. Even a boring joke like Ebdon has one.

No he didn’t deserve it. He got what he deserved.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Pink Ball

Dragonfly wrote:If I remember correctly it all went wrong for White in frame 25. Leading 14-10 he just needed to roll a red in gently to leave Hendry needing a snooker. Instead he played with pace to get cue ball away from the cushion.

It was surely over if it had gone to 15-10. Not only would it be a bigger lead but White would have gained confidence. Instead the red stayed out. Hendry cleared up and White crumbled

Yeah that was the killer. He should have won frame 24 as well. 16-9, it was all over.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Iranu

Barring a very occasional outrageous piece of fortune (e.g. Murphy fluking frame ball pink to beat Fu in the 2008 UK final) players get no more or less than they deserve.

Re: 3 Players who have went backwards ?

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:Barring a very occasional outrageous piece of fortune (e.g. Murphy fluking frame ball pink to beat Fu in the 2008 UK final) players get no more or less than they deserve.

Yeah. It annoys me when people say things like White was unlucky to miss the black in 1994. It wasn’t a kick, so how was he unlucky?