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Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

I am launching a memories and thoughts series of threads to discuss professional players based on their year of birth.

I'll open one of these threads every 3-4 days and we'll work our way forwards in time from the oldest players to the youngest. For most threads, the players to discuss will be those born in a particular year.
To start with though, we'll have a few sets of years, for obvious reasons.

All players listed will be those who have had a ranking between 1-64 at the end of at least one snooker season.

I thought about making this a series of polls, asking about 'greatest' or 'best', but have decided it best to just open it to general discussion of memories and thoughts. If you'd like to share who you think was the greatest/best, of course you are welcome to do so.

Today, we look at 23 professional players (those who had rankings from the 1976-1977 season onwards) who were born between 1913-1939:

Fred Davis (1913-1998) (England) - highest rank '6' (1977-79)
Jackie Rae (1921-2013) (Northern Ireland) - '48' (1982-83)
Warren Simpson (1921-1980) (Australia) - '22' (1976-78)
John Pulman (1923-1998) (England) - '7' (1976-77)
John Dunning (1927-2009) (England) - '16' (1976-77)
Jack Fitzmaurice (1928-2005) (England) - '32' (1981-82)
Pat Houlihan (1929-2006) (England) - '18' (1977-78)
Eddie Charlton (1929-2004) (Australia) - '3' (1976-81)
George Scott (1929-1998) (England) - '37' (1983-84)
Gary Owen (1929-1995) (Wales) - '13' (1976-77)
Bernard Bennett (1931-2002) (England) - '24' (1976-77)
Jimmy van Rensberg (b.1931) (South Africa) '59' (1985-86)
Ray Reardon (b.1932) (Wales) '1' (1976-80 + 1981-82)
Rex Williams (b.1933) (England) '11' (1976-77)
Cliff Wilson (1934-1994) (Wales) '16' (1987-88)
John Spencer (1935-2006) (England) '2' (1976-77)
Marcus Owen (1935-1987) (Wales) '23' (1976-77)
Ray Edmonds (b.1936) (England) '28' (1980-81)
Mark Wildman (b.1936) (England) '21' (1983-84)
Eddie Sinclair (1937-2005) (Scotland) '26' (1982-83)
Clive Everton (b.1937) (Wales) '47' (1982-83)
Roy Andrewartha (b.1938) (Wales) '47' (1983-84)
Geoff Foulds (b.1939) (England) '62' (1986-87)

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

Apologies for having such a long list of players to discuss in this first thread. I think the discussion will be relatively limited for these players though, as not many of us have actually seen any of these guys play.

What strikes me is that we talk about it being an old man's game nowadays, but even in the 70s and 80s, there were a lot of 40+ year-olds playing at a high level.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

For those of you who have been lucky enough to watch some of these players, I'd be interested to know what their prevailing styles of play were, and if there are any particular matches or frames which they played and which stand out in your memory.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby SnookerEd25

Fred Davis (1913-1998) (England) - highest rank '6' (1977-79)
Jackie Rae (1921-2013) (Northern Ireland) - '48' (1982-83)
Warren Simpson (1921-1980) (Australia) - '22' (1976-78)
John Pulman (1923-1998) (England) - '7' (1976-77)
John Dunning (1927-2009) (England) - '16' (1976-77)
Jack Fitzmaurice (1928-2005) (England) - '32' (1981-82)
Pat Houlihan (1929-2006) (England) - '18' (1977-78)
Eddie Charlton (1929-2004) (Australia) - '3' (1976-81)
George Scott (1929-1998) (England) - '37' (1983-84)
Gary Owen (1929-1995) (Wales) - '13' (1976-77)
Bernard Bennett (1931-2002) (England) - '24' (1976-77)
Jimmy van Rensberg (b.1931) (South Africa) '59' (1985-86)
Ray Reardon (b.1932) (Wales) '1' (1976-80 + 1981-82)
Rex Williams (b.1933) (England) '11' (1976-77)
Cliff Wilson (1934-1994) (Wales) '16' (1987-88)
John Spencer (1935-2006) (England) '2' (1976-77)
Marcus Owen (1935-1987) (Wales) '23' (1976-77)
Ray Edmonds (b.1936) (England) '28' (1980-81)
Mark Wildman (b.1936) (England) '21' (1983-84)
Eddie Sinclair (1937-2005) (Scotland) '26' (1982-83)
Clive Everton (b.1937) (Wales) '47' (1982-83)
Roy Andrewartha (b.1938) (Wales) '47' (1983-84)
Geoff Foulds (b.1939) (England) '62' (1986-87)

I have emboldened the players I have seen play; sadly, none of them in person so all on the TV. Mostly, these were during my early years of watching snooker (from 1979 through the 80s), although Pulman & Scott I have only seen footage of from YouTube in recent years.

I wish I could find more footage of my snooker idol, Cliff Wilson but there seems to be very little about, despite him being a consistent TV performer throughout the 80s :hmmm:

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

SnookerEd25 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/news/2007/jan/08/obituaries.readersobituaries

Patsy Houlihan obituary. If I could choose to see footage of one player i've never seen, it would be he.

What a wonderful obit. Thanks for sharing.
I'm now desperate to see his play too! I wonder if anyone can find any footage at all?

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby badtemperedcyril

Pat Houlihan is something of an enigma. He had a reputation as a money player in London and apparently Joe Davis kept him out of the professional game as a result and no doubt because he had a criminal record. When you read the reports of his play in the old Billiard Player magazines it is absolutely evident that he was something very special - a fast, attacking, skillful player - Jimmy White called him in his book the "best player he ever saw". His winning of the 1965 English Amateur title came about by beating Ray Reardon in the semi-final at Burroughes Hall, London, 6-5, from 1-5 down. He then followed up by beating John Spencer 11-3 in front of 1,800 people at Blackpool Tower Circus. He did play at the Crucible putting up a decent show against Thorburn (made several 70-80 breaks) but whether or not any footage remains in the BBC archives is anyone's guess?

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby badtemperedcyril

I've seen a few frames of Jackie Rea playing, albeit from the 1970's when he was 20 years past his prime. He was famed for his exhibition matches, which were full of fast, attacking potting, trick shots and Irish jokes. He played Pulman in the 1957 World Championship final and led for the first four days, until Pulman overtook him in the 43rd frame and ran out to a winning lead at 37-29.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

SnookerEd25 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/bernard-bennett-9164438.html

Bernard Bennett obituary

Sounds like Bennett had a big impact on the game :)
The obit talks about him not being a very good player, but that he did make a 143 break. Sounds like a good player to me!

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby SnookerEd25

chengdufan wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/bernard-bennett-9164438.html

Bernard Bennett obituary

Sounds like Bennett had a big impact on the game :)
The obit talks about him not being a very good player, but that he did make a 143 break. Sounds like a good player to me!


I've heard somewhere that he didn't feel he was 'good' enough to be a professional, and was reluctant to turn over, but was persuaded to by the other players of the day to bring the total of professionals to 8, enabling them to stage proper tournaments consisting of Qfs, SFs and (of course) a final. I think it was an interview with John Spencer where I heard that.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

SnookerEd25 wrote:https://sportpsyched.co.uk/cliff-wilson-snookers-great-entertainer

Cliff :bowdown:

Wow, what a legend! Sounds like he played very much in the style of young Judd Trump.
There's a tendency to assume the players in the old days were slow, tactical and boring. You only really hear about Jimmy and Alex being exciting to watch, but there were clearly many others, including Cliff.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

badtemperedcyril wrote:I've seen a few frames of Jackie Rea playing, albeit from the 1970's when he was 20 years past his prime. He was famed for his exhibition matches, which were full of fast, attacking potting, trick shots and Irish jokes. He played Pulman in the 1957 World Championship final and led for the first four days, until Pulman overtook him in the 43rd frame and ran out to a winning lead at 37-29.

Great to read these comments Cyril. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby gallantrabbit

Great thread. I'm not that knowledgeable on these guys though...
One Cliff Wilson story is that Ronnie was playing him in the UK. JImmy White, already a friend of Ronnie's was on the next table and keeping an eye on the game, obviously with a bet on O'sullivan, (you could in those days) as part of a yankee.
With Ronnie struggling and losing to Cliff at the interval, (Cliff was potting them off the lampshades as he sometimes did) JImmy went up to Ron and said, "any chance of you beating this bald, half blind w.....??!
O'sullivan lost.
Reardon was a class act all round, but I never saw much of Spencer for some reason.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

gallantrabbit wrote:Great thread. I'm not that knowledgeable on these guys though...
One Cliff Wilson story is that Ronnie was playing him in the UK. JImmy White, already a friend of Ronnie's was on the next table and keeping an eye on the game, obviously with a bet on O'sullivan, (you could in those days) as part of a yankee.
With Ronnie struggling and losing to Cliff at the interval, (Cliff was potting them off the lampshades as he sometimes did) JImmy went up to Ron and said, "any chance of you beating this bald, half blind w.....??!
O'sullivan lost.
Reardon was a class act all round, but I never saw much of Spencer for some reason.

rofl love it!

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

SnookerEd25 wrote:Roy Andrewartha (b.1938) (Wales) '47' (1983-84)

I have emboldened the players I have seen play

What do you remember of Andrewartha Ed?
Seems he was only a pro for one season, but ended it ranked 47. This is quite a high ranking for a new player to the tour. He then gave up?

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby Muller

badtemperedcyril wrote:I made this comment the other day... it was in one of the televised tournaments in the early 80's, the presenter came out with,

"and our next match is between Jimmy White and the fast potting Cliff Wilson"


I think I remember that match. Cliff got some outrageous plants prompting Dennis in commentary to say "he's got more plants than Percy Thrower"

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby SnookerEd25

I'm surprised to hear he was only 'professional' for the one season, I remember him playing at the Crucible (he is in one of the musical sequences that they did every year to the tune of 'the Entertainer' - can be seen on YouTube i'm sure <i'll look for the link when I'm on lunch a bit later>); I suspect he may have been what they used to call in the 80s a 'non-tournament professional' - the current equivalent would be a 'top-up player'.

Looking at Cuetracker, he played at the Crucible only once, in 1984 against Eddie Charlton, so that would have been the match I saw at the time - probably just highlights. But I do remember it specifically because I had to ask my dad how to pronounce his surname when I saw on the screen that he was coming up :chuckle:

I remember very little about the match itself although I remember the 84 tournament very well for quite a lot of one-sided 1st round matches : Kirk Stevens despatched Eddie Sinclair 10-1, Dennis Taylor saw off Joe Johnson by the same score - who ever could have believed he'd be Champion just 2 years later! - Terry Griffiths dropped only 2 frames against Paul Mifsud, 3 matches finished 10-3 and Charlton-Andrewartha was one of three to end 10-4.

On the other side of the coin there were 2 massive upsets as teenage debutants Neal Foulds and John Parrott saw off Alex Higgins (no.5 seed, and only 2 years removed from his emotional Crucible triumph) and Tony Knowles (no.4) respectively. The Higgins-Foulds match being one of only 2 1st rounders to go the distance (no.14 seed John Virgo fell to Willie Thorne in the other, but Thorne was 18 in the world so was probablyconsidered the most dangerous qualifier (no.17 Perrie Mans hadn't made it - Parrott had whitewashed him in the final qualifying round!) Along with Knowles, Higgins and Virgo - Tony Meo was the only other seed to exit at the first hurdle, to Silvino Francisco (5-10)

In fact, looking at Cuetracker now the second round and QF matches were pretty one-sided - only Parrott (11-13 to Dennis Taylor) and Thorne (same score to Cliff Thorburn) got close to forcing a decider; and the closest QF was 13-10 (Griffiths falling to Davis).

So thank God for Jimmy White - firstly serving up a classic SF with Kirk Stevens (16-14 to the whirlwind in a fast-paced shootout) and pushing Davis close in the final; having trailed 4-12 overnight he took 7 of eight in the afternoon to only trail 11-13 going into the evening and Davis only just got over the line at 18-16 in the end.

Sorry, got a bit off the original question but I'm afraid the answer is I don't remember too much about Andrewartha's game itself, just the brief recognition of having seen him play - if only briefly. :emb:

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

SnookerEd25 wrote:I'm surprised to hear he was only 'professional' for the one season, I remember him playing at the Crucible (he is in one of the musical sequences that they did every year to the tune of 'the Entertainer' - can be seen on YouTube i'm sure <i'll look for the link when I'm on lunch a bit later>); I suspect he may have been what they used to call in the 80s a 'non-tournament professional' - the current equivalent would be a 'top-up player'.

Looking at Cuetracker, he played at the Crucible only once, in 1984 against Eddie Charlton, so that would have been the match I saw at the time - probably just highlights. But I do remember it specifically because I had to ask my dad how to pronounce his surname when I saw on the screen that he was coming up :chuckle:

I remember very little about the match itself although I remember the 84 tournament very well for quite a lot of one-sided 1st round matches : Kirk Stevens despatched Eddie Sinclair 10-1, Dennis Taylor saw off Joe Johnson by the same score - who ever could have believed he'd be Champion just 2 years later! - Terry Griffiths dropped only 2 frames against Paul Mifsud, 3 matches finished 10-3 and Charlton-Andrewartha was one of three to end 10-4.

On the other side of the coin there were 2 massive upsets as teenage debutants Neal Foulds and John Parrott saw off Alex Higgins (no.5 seed, and only 2 years removed from his emotional Crucible triumph) and Tony Knowles (no.4) respectively. The Higgins-Foulds match being one of only 2 1st rounders to go the distance (no.14 seed John Virgo fell to Willie Thorne in the other, but Thorne was 18 in the world so was probablyconsidered the most dangerous qualifier (no.17 Perrie Mans hadn't made it - Parrott had whitewashed him in the final qualifying round!) Along with Knowles, Higgins and Virgo - Tony Meo was the only other seed to exit at the first hurdle, to Silvino Francisco (5-10)

In fact, looking at Cuetracker now the second round and QF matches were pretty one-sided - only Parrott (11-13 to Dennis Taylor) and Thorne (same score to Cliff Thorburn) got close to forcing a decider; and the closest QF was 13-10 (Griffiths falling to Davis).

So thank God for Jimmy White - firstly serving up a classic SF with Kirk Stevens (16-14 to the whirlwind in a fast-paced shootout) and pushing Davis close in the final; having trailed 4-12 overnight he took 7 of eight in the afternoon to only trail 11-13 going into the evening and Davis only just got over the line at 18-16 in the end.

Sorry, got a bit off the original question but I'm afraid the answer is I don't remember too much about Andrewartha's game itself, just the brief recognition of having seen him play - if only briefly. :emb:

You could have just said you didn't remember him! rofl
Seriously though, it is nice to read these memories of the 1984 worlds

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

chengdufan wrote:What strikes me is that we talk about it being an old man's game nowadays, but even in the 70s and 80s, there were a lot of 40+ year-olds playing at a high level.


There was a wider range of ages at that time. You have players in their early 20's up against someone in their 50's. Now it's nearly all 30 and 40 somethings.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby Empire State Human

I haven't seen very much of these players, but I've read a bit about them. They feature in Clive Everton's book The Story of Billiards and Snooker (the one with the green jacket and players' faces imposed on the red balls), which was written in the '70s and is obviously quite old, but I don't think Clive really described the amateur scene of the '50s and '60s in quite as much detail again as he did there. It’s normally cheap to find on ebay or amazon. I can’t really type out all the stories, so a few quick points:

One interesting point is that he thinks there was nothing revolutionary in Alex Higgins' style of play per se, but sees it as an extension of Cliff Wilson/Pat Houlihan.

Had professional snooker not been so dead, had the media been alive to the wonders he was performing, Wilson could have achieved in the 50's what Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins was to achieve in the 70's. So confident and aggressive that often, if there was no pot on, he would just bang the balls round hopefully rather than play a safety shot; such a fast, deadly, first-time potter that, from baulk, he would take along pink from its spot in preference to yellow, green or brown, so nonchalant that he would pot a ball four feet along a cushion in just the same that he would pot one over the pocket, Wilson destroyed player after players at Burroughes Hall, where his Amateur Championship matches always attracted capacity houses.


The 'new' thing about Higgins was that he somehow slipped through the Joe Davis vetting process for becoming a professional. Clive seemed to think that the support that followed Higgins was to an extent because he was seen as a working class hero, or at least someone rabidly anti-authority, and he was the first openly antagonistic player against the game's authorities and referees. This led to his exclusion from the wildly popular Pot Black and a few other invitational tournaments, which only in turn made him more popular as an 'outsider'.

I've read through various editions of Billiards & Snooker magazine in the late 60s, and they took a pretty dim view of the 1966 World Championship match between Fred Davis and John Pulman. It seems the challenge match was arranged ad hoc. It was only a few weeks before that they decided whether it was to be an exhibition or a World Championship. Billiards & Snooker carried no match report as such - clearly they had sent no one to watch - and it took several months to get the frame scores and added a few platitudes like 'the crowd were very appreciative of the good safety play' or 'they sympathised with the disappointment of the players in the rare poor positional shot', like some school kid who'd been asked to write a report for their homework and were trying to bluff their way through.

The 1969 championship, which Spencer won, is usually heralded as the start of the new era since it reverted to a knock-out tournament, but I think Eddie Charlton deserves a bit of credit for bringing the competitive element of the championship to the fore. He challenged Pulman in ’68 and lost. It's always good to have international representation, and Charlton actively promoted several tournaments (the '75 World Championship, the World Matchplay, and was involved in getting the '71 Championship held in Australia too). Weirdly, the '71 championship was a round robin with knockout stage for the top 4. Charlton finished top of the round robin, but then drew Warren Simpson (see chengdufan's list) in some draw shenanigans in the semi-final. Apparently the semi-final draw was decided before Reardon played Spencer in the last round robin game, so it turned out 1 played 3 and 2 played 4, and consequently Spencer and Reardon played each other. Charlton played Simpson, who was reportedly a very quick Australian player and hardly ever beat Charlton, but Charlton was involved in a car crash on his way to the first session and it seemed to destroy his self-confidence. Charlton was in touching grasp of so many tournament victories – the World Championship in ’75 against Reardon, the SF against Griffiths in ’79, the World Billiards final against Mark Wildman in 1984, and even the seniors in 1991 against Wilson when he had the colours on their spots to win. He so often failed at the crucial ball.

Throughout the 60s, the amateur circuit was more alive than the professional and Billiards & Snooker magazine invariably had pictures of Ray Edmonds and George Scott winning trophies week after week. Gary Owen defended the World Amateur title in 1966 in Karachi, and was awarded the MBE – I believe only the second player after Joe Davis to receive an honour. By the time the game opened up to new professionals in the early 80s, most were past their best.

Since it was mentioned above, I’ll just finish with a match report of the O’Sullivan v Cliff Wilson match from 1992 UK. When I heard they played, I thought, wow that must’ve been a cool match to watch, but the report suggests that Wilson wasn’t too impressed by Ronnie’s behaviour!

Image

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby chengdufan

Empire State Human wrote:I haven't seen very much of these players, but I've read a bit about them. They feature in Clive Everton's book The Story of Billiards and Snooker (the one with the green jacket and players' faces imposed on the red balls), which was written in the '70s and is obviously quite old, but I don't think Clive really described the amateur scene of the '50s and '60s in quite as much detail again as he did there. It’s normally cheap to find on ebay or amazon. I can’t really type out all the stories, so a few quick points:

One interesting point is that he thinks there was nothing revolutionary in Alex Higgins' style of play per se, but sees it as an extension of Cliff Wilson/Pat Houlihan.

Had professional snooker not been so dead, had the media been alive to the wonders he was performing, Wilson could have achieved in the 50's what Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins was to achieve in the 70's. So confident and aggressive that often, if there was no pot on, he would just bang the balls round hopefully rather than play a safety shot; such a fast, deadly, first-time potter that, from baulk, he would take along pink from its spot in preference to yellow, green or brown, so nonchalant that he would pot a ball four feet along a cushion in just the same that he would pot one over the pocket, Wilson destroyed player after players at Burroughes Hall, where his Amateur Championship matches always attracted capacity houses.


The 'new' thing about Higgins was that he somehow slipped through the Joe Davis vetting process for becoming a professional. Clive seemed to think that the support that followed Higgins was to an extent because he was seen as a working class hero, or at least someone rabidly anti-authority, and he was the first openly antagonistic player against the game's authorities and referees. This led to his exclusion from the wildly popular Pot Black and a few other invitational tournaments, which only in turn made him more popular as an 'outsider'.

I've read through various editions of Billiards & Snooker magazine in the late 60s, and they took a pretty dim view of the 1966 World Championship match between Fred Davis and John Pulman. It seems the challenge match was arranged ad hoc. It was only a few weeks before that they decided whether it was to be an exhibition or a World Championship. Billiards & Snooker carried no match report as such - clearly they had sent no one to watch - and it took several months to get the frame scores and added a few platitudes like 'the crowd were very appreciative of the good safety play' or 'they sympathised with the disappointment of the players in the rare poor positional shot', like some school kid who'd been asked to write a report for their homework and were trying to bluff their way through.

The 1969 championship, which Spencer won, is usually heralded as the start of the new era since it reverted to a knock-out tournament, but I think Eddie Charlton deserves a bit of credit for bringing the competitive element of the championship to the fore. He challenged Pulman in ’68 and lost. It's always good to have international representation, and Charlton actively promoted several tournaments (the '75 World Championship, the World Matchplay, and was involved in getting the '71 Championship held in Australia too). Weirdly, the '71 championship was a round robin with knockout stage for the top 4. Charlton finished top of the round robin, but then drew Warren Simpson (see chengdufan's list) in some draw shenanigans in the semi-final. Apparently the semi-final draw was decided before Reardon played Spencer in the last round robin game, so it turned out 1 played 3 and 2 played 4, and consequently Spencer and Reardon played each other. Charlton played Simpson, who was reportedly a very quick Australian player and hardly ever beat Charlton, but Charlton was involved in a car crash on his way to the first session and it seemed to destroy his self-confidence. Charlton was in touching grasp of so many tournament victories – the World Championship in ’75 against Reardon, the SF against Griffiths in ’79, the World Billiards final against Mark Wildman in 1984, and even the seniors in 1991 against Wilson when he had the colours on their spots to win. He so often failed at the crucial ball.

Throughout the 60s, the amateur circuit was more alive than the professional and Billiards & Snooker magazine invariably had pictures of Ray Edmonds and George Scott winning trophies week after week. Gary Owen defended the World Amateur title in 1966 in Karachi, and was awarded the MBE – I believe only the second player after Joe Davis to receive an honour. By the time the game opened up to new professionals in the early 80s, most were past their best.

Since it was mentioned above, I’ll just finish with a match report of the O’Sullivan v Cliff Wilson match from 1992 UK. When I heard they played, I thought, wow that must’ve been a cool match to watch, but the report suggests that Wilson wasn’t too impressed by Ronnie’s behaviour!

Image

I've learnt a lot from this thread. Thanks everyone for sharing, and thanks ESH for this great post.
Cliff Wilson is an absolute legend! I had heard his name before, but not much more. When he has been talked about, at least from what I've heard, it's almost exclusively been about his cue action. He died so young, what a great loss for snooker. From what I've read here, he really deserves more mentions generally.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby TheSaviour

Cliff Wilson certainly seemed like a funny man. He had a certain pedigree of doing his stuff, no matter of actual playing ability, ranking or titles, similar to many others, for example to Dennis Taylor.

Youtube is full of matches like 13 year old Stephen Maguire versus 16 year old Barry Hawkins. One can always bash them, as any consistency obviously ain´t thtere, at least it is spot on critics then. And they have their past, they can only be proud of having a reality media coverage.

Many can close out the frames relatively well, many can get the break-building running straight away, many can make difficult snookers all through the frames.

An important thing is to be critical. The self-critics are so sadly all dead and buried, but at least try something. Not just terms, racism that and that but attack towards individuals while it is on.

Not many can spot any critics like that. Just remember that you actually do deserve all that bashing, and then try to make your decisions. Finally.

Yesterday was as rock bottom as it just possibly goes. Everyone sporting all their fav shirt colour, black. And all that because I had a one, for s short while. And obviously all the gestures of them were there as well. And that supposed to be really great. Wasn´t any. I hardly made through it. Now this is a much, much more difficult colour combination now. Interesting to see if they have learned a lesson. Not the greatest start of them all. All crying out some strange out-spokenly, of which ever hasn´t been there. All of them still sporting on those highly robotic body-languages, sun-glasses and obviously, a strange hats. That´s by far the greatest body-language they can ever make.

My address is there but not living in there. It is there as it sounds good but i ain´t any. Because that´s the reality with them. Those body-languages, those gestures, those shows. Never absolutely anything else. Obviously the word "eeeeäh" or "well" or "thanks for having me" - a highly dumb American robotic slogan and all those manouvers just needs to be there ever present. Minute in, minute out.

Everything just needs to be so obvious. All of my neighbours staying up all nights long to do some "work" with the laptops and computers. Going to sleep while I am gone, and I never supposed to noticing anything. Regarding to them. Then they all keeps on coming with me, arguing they all are an "awfully out-spoken persons", a truly brave people. 10 years, countless of opportunities them to say just something, mainly sorry, but not a word yet spoken.

I am still slightly interested what kind of a world wide show and argument they next came with.

So, a truly, really abysmal shows, arguments and news all the way. Nothing works, not even any true basic logics. Still, was slightly pleased to read these modern posts of yours! Nice spellings, nice punctuations, at least even something new news! That´s why responded with my genuine thoughts and feelings. Which obviously ain´t any good or positive. Or they are, but can´t stand almost anyone currently. Being the situation for the last 10 years.

A truly robotic, and awful standards of playing of snooker on the cards, from any given top-player. They can hide the cue ball, they can make snookers! Great! Not. It is not, trust me. Just pathetic bashing of a ball, that´s all what it is.

First blood once again in. The day number 3700. The first ones arriving with the similar colour of the shirts and jackets as I currently have. It was a much more difficult to them this time but once again they have digged deep and found those shirts and jackets! Great! Not. Really.

Re: Memories and Thoughts Series - Thread 1 pre-1940s

Postby SnookerEd25

SnookerEd25 wrote:Great contribution from ESH!

Another long post from me coming up...


I just spent two hours writing out a post about John Dunning's finest hour but when I came to submit it, it had logged me out and asked me to 'confirm form re-submission'. Now it looks like i've lost the piece as using the back button on my browser only takes me back to this page. I don't suppose anybody knows of any tricks how I might be able to retrieve it?

Why oh why didn't I right it in a Google Docs and just copy and paste it here :mood:


   

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