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Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

I've been looking for the ages of everyone who's finished a season ranked inside the top 128, or is a professional in the coming season, since the first recorded rankings on cuetracker from 1976-77.

I'm missing the ages of 14 such players (out of a total of 555, including those joining the tour this coming season).

If you can help with any of those listed below, I'd be grateful:

Greg Jenkins, Australia, highest finish 93rd in 1986-87.
Lou Condo, Australia, 125th in 1986-87.
Habib Subah, Bahrain, 91st in 2005-06.
Paul Thornley, Canada, 97th in 1985-86.
Tom Finstad, Canada, 115th in 1998-99.
Wayne Sanderson, Canada, 128th in 1986-87.
Gao Yang, China, new to the tour this season.
Carlo Giagnacovo, England, 120th in 2003-04.
Matt Wilson, England, 96th in 1995-96.
Maurice Parkin, England, 91st in 1984-85.
Roger Garrett (who famously vanished before a match with Dave Harold), England, 85th in 1994-95.
Stephen Croft, England, 122nd in 2003-04.
Derek Mienie, South Africa, 95th in 1984-85.
Matthew Farrant, Wales, 124th in 2002-03.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

For Gao Yang, I'm looking for his date of birth.
For the others, any info at all alluding to their age is good enough for me.
Thank you!

Re: Ages of some players

Postby lhpirnie

chengdufan wrote:I've been looking for the ages of everyone who's finished a season ranked inside the top 128, or is a professional in the coming season, since the first recorded rankings on cuetracker from 1976-77.

I'm missing the ages of 14 such players (out of a total of 555, including those joining the tour this coming season).

If you can help with any of those listed below, I'd be grateful:

Greg Jenkins, Australia, highest finish 93rd in 1986-87.
Lou Condo, Australia, 125th in 1986-87.
Habib Subah, Bahrain, 91st in 2005-06.
Paul Thornley, Canada, 97th in 1985-86.
Tom Finstad, Canada, 115th in 1998-99.
Wayne Sanderson, Canada, 128th in 1986-87.
Gao Yang, China, new to the tour this season.
Carlo Giagnacovo, England, 120th in 2003-04.
Matt Wilson, England, 96th in 1995-96.
Maurice Parkin, England, 91st in 1984-85.
Roger Garrett (who famously vanished before a match with Dave Harold), England, 85th in 1994-95.
Stephen Croft, England, 122nd in 2003-04.
Derek Mienie, South Africa, 95th in 1984-85.
Matthew Farrant, Wales, 124th in 2002-03.

I've certainly played against some of those players from the early 90's, but could only estimate their ages.


Gao Yang was born on 5th September 2004, so he just turns 16 before his first professional match. He comes from Hefei, Anhui province (like Niu Zhuang, who was on the tour 2017-19). He was coached by the remarkable Ju Reti, but more recently a CBSA graduate. The Chinese players who were 'snookered' by Covid-19 will return this week, and will undergo a 14-day quarantine before their preparations for 2020-21.

I was also doing some calculations about ages, worried as I am about the future of the game. I calculated the average ages over the last 10 years of the Crucible seeds, the Crucible qualifiers, and the Q School qualifiers. Unsurprisingly, the World Championship was the oldest on both counts, Q School was one of the oldest at 29.4 (last year's Q School was just ridiculous: 31.6 despite some extremely young players).

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

Thanks for the info about Gao Yang, LH. Hefei is a bit of a dump, so he should feel somewhat at home when heading to Barnsley for qualifiers.

Good to know the Chinese players are heading back too. Will help with my Think Pink selections, lol.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby lhpirnie

chengdufan wrote:Thanks for the info about Gao Yang, LH. Hefei is a bit of a dump, so he should feel somewhat at home when heading to Barnsley for qualifiers.

Good to know the Chinese players are heading back too. Will help with my Think Pink selections, lol.

Here's a reference. Quite a few of these kids will be on the tour in the next few years:
Image

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

Thanks Mick! How do you know about Thornley? If you don't mind me asking.

The list of Chinese players is excellent to have, thank you. Disappointed in myself for not having found it in my research!
Good to see lots of Chongqing and Sichuan players on the list, though a bit disappointing there aren't any from Xinjiang. I wonder where the Chongqing youngsters practice.

Could be challenging for the BBC commentators if Luo Honghao plays Liu Hongyu (the top ranked player in this list) at The Crucible one day!

Re: Ages of some players

Postby lhpirnie

chengdufan wrote:Thanks Mick! How do you know about Thornley? If you don't mind me asking.

The list of Chinese players is excellent to have, thank you. Disappointed in myself for not having found it in my research!
Good to see lots of Chongqing and Sichuan players on the list, though a bit disappointing there aren't any from Xinjiang. I wonder where the Chongqing youngsters practice.

Could be challenging for the BBC commentators if Luo Honghao plays Liu Hongyu (the top ranked player in this list) at The Crucible one day!

The leading Xinjiang young player is of course Chang Bingyu, who isn't on the list because he's already a professional! Yes, it's mostly the CBSA Academy players at the top of this list, because possibly the west-China players don't get to play in the CBSA's junior events. What usually happens is they finally get into CBSA at age 15 or 16, then perhaps turn pro shortly afterwards (Zhang Jiankang, for example). I think Si Jiahui holds the record - he was finally accepted in the CBSA in January 2019, and got through Q School 5 months later! So he 'counts' as a CBSA Academy player.


One to watch is Bai Yulu. She might be the main rival to Nutcharat Wongharuthai in the women's game in years to come. Her social media is very interesting, with lots of information about the coaching methods (including psychological training) at the CBSA Academy.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

lhpirnie wrote:
chengdufan wrote:Thanks Mick! How do you know about Thornley? If you don't mind me asking.

The list of Chinese players is excellent to have, thank you. Disappointed in myself for not having found it in my research!
Good to see lots of Chongqing and Sichuan players on the list, though a bit disappointing there aren't any from Xinjiang. I wonder where the Chongqing youngsters practice.

Could be challenging for the BBC commentators if Luo Honghao plays Liu Hongyu (the top ranked player in this list) at The Crucible one day!

The leading Xinjiang young player is of course Chang Bingyu, who isn't on the list because he's already a professional! Yes, it's mostly the CBSA Academy players at the top of this list, because possibly the west-China players don't get to play in the CBSA's junior events. What usually happens is they finally get into CBSA at age 15 or 16, then perhaps turn pro shortly afterwards (Zhang Jiankang, for example). I think Si Jiahui holds the record - he was finally accepted in the CBSA in January 2019, and got through Q School 5 months later! So he 'counts' as a CBSA Academy player.


One to watch is Bai Yulu. She might be the main rival to Nutcharat Wongharuthai in the women's game in years to come. Her social media is very interesting, with lots of information about the coaching methods (including psychological training) at the CBSA Academy.

Bai Yulu is 7th on this list. Looks like she made the quarters at the Pengzhou event in December. She must be a good player, I look forward to watching her. Thanks for the tip.
As an aside, Pengzhou is not far from Chengdu and is famous for the longevity of its citizens.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

badtemperedcyril wrote:Maurice Parkin won the English Amateur in the early 50’s. I should be able to find out his age at least from one of the old Billiard Player magazines.

Thanks Cyril.
Maurice Parkin is from Sheffield I believe. I found articles about twins from Sheffield called Maurice and Norman Parkin, seems they were known as footballers but are from the same era, so the snooker player could be the same person. Would be interesting if so. The footballer passed away in 2015 aged 65.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

chengdufan wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Maurice Parkin won the English Amateur in the early 50’s. I should be able to find out his age at least from one of the old Billiard Player magazines.

Thanks Cyril.
Maurice Parkin is from Sheffield I believe. I found articles about twins from Sheffield called Maurice and Norman Parkin, seems they were known as footballers but are from the same era, so the snooker player could be the same person. Would be interesting if so. The footballer passed away in 2015 aged 65.

Though if he won the English Amateur in the early 50s seems there were two Maurice Parkins from Sheffield. The footballer would have been too young

Re: Ages of some players

Postby badtemperedcyril

chengdufan wrote:
chengdufan wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Maurice Parkin won the English Amateur in the early 50’s. I should be able to find out his age at least from one of the old Billiard Player magazines.

Thanks Cyril.
Maurice Parkin is from Sheffield I believe. I found articles about twins from Sheffield called Maurice and Norman Parkin, seems they were known as footballers but are from the same era, so the snooker player could be the same person. Would be interesting if so. The footballer passed away in 2015 aged 65.

Though if he won the English Amateur in the early 50s seems there were two Maurice Parkins from Sheffield. The footballer would have been too young

I’m sure I read he was in his late 20s when he won the Amateur title. which would make him at least 95 now. Let me check it out.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby badtemperedcyril

Found it! Maurice Parkin (Chapeltown, Sheffield) was 28-years old when he won the English Amateur title on 16th March, 1955.

Couple more...
Paul Thornley, 15/04/1944
Lou Condo, 21/08/1948

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

badtemperedcyril wrote:Found it! Maurice Parkin (Chapeltown, Sheffield) was 28-years old when he won the English Amateur title on 16th March, 1955.

Superb! Thank you

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

badtemperedcyril wrote:Just added 2 more (see above)

Thanks. I'm impressed you got Lou Condo. Couldn't find out much about him at all.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby mick745

chengdufan wrote:I've been looking for the ages of everyone who's finished a season ranked inside the top 128, or is a professional in the coming season, since the first recorded rankings on cuetracker from 1976-77.

I'm missing the ages of 14 such players (out of a total of 555, including those joining the tour this coming season).

If you can help with any of those listed below, I'd be grateful:

Greg Jenkins, Australia, highest finish 93rd in 1986-87.
Lou Condo, Australia, 125th in 1986-87.
Habib Subah, Bahrain, 91st in 2005-06.
Paul Thornley, Canada, 97th in 1985-86.
Tom Finstad, Canada, 115th in 1998-99.
Wayne Sanderson, Canada, 128th in 1986-87.
Gao Yang, China, new to the tour this season.
Carlo Giagnacovo, England, 120th in 2003-04.
Matt Wilson, England, 96th in 1995-96.
Maurice Parkin, England, 91st in 1984-85.
Roger Garrett (who famously vanished before a match with Dave Harold), England, 85th in 1994-95.
Stephen Croft, England, 122nd in 2003-04.
Derek Mienie, South Africa, 95th in 1984-85.
Matthew Farrant, Wales, 124th in 2002-03.


Greg Jenkins born 1962
Lou Condo 21.8.48
Tom Finstad born 1955
Carlo Giagnacovo 22.1.82
Matt Wilson born 1983 (i am not sure this is correct, source page 266 of the complete international directory of snooker players John Kobylecky. As he played in the 1994 wsc it is unlikely he competed at the age of 11).

Maurice Parkin born 1926
Roger Garrett born 1966
Stephen Croft 17.2.82
Derek Mienie born 1941

Matt Farrant born 1973

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

mick745 wrote:
chengdufan wrote:I've been looking for the ages of everyone who's finished a season ranked inside the top 128, or is a professional in the coming season, since the first recorded rankings on cuetracker from 1976-77.

I'm missing the ages of 14 such players (out of a total of 555, including those joining the tour this coming season).

If you can help with any of those listed below, I'd be grateful:

Greg Jenkins, Australia, highest finish 93rd in 1986-87.
Lou Condo, Australia, 125th in 1986-87.
Habib Subah, Bahrain, 91st in 2005-06.
Paul Thornley, Canada, 97th in 1985-86.
Tom Finstad, Canada, 115th in 1998-99.
Wayne Sanderson, Canada, 128th in 1986-87.
Gao Yang, China, new to the tour this season.
Carlo Giagnacovo, England, 120th in 2003-04.
Matt Wilson, England, 96th in 1995-96.
Maurice Parkin, England, 91st in 1984-85.
Roger Garrett (who famously vanished before a match with Dave Harold), England, 85th in 1994-95.
Stephen Croft, England, 122nd in 2003-04.
Derek Mienie, South Africa, 95th in 1984-85.
Matthew Farrant, Wales, 124th in 2002-03.


Greg Jenkins born 1962
Lou Condo 21.8.48
Tom Finstad born 1955
Carlo Giagnacovo 22.1.82
Matt Wilson born 1983 (i am not sure this is correct, source page 266 of the complete international directory of snooker players John Kobylecky. As he played in the 1994 wsc it is unlikely he competed at the age of 11).

Maurice Parkin born 1926
Roger Garrett born 1966
Stephen Croft 17.2.82
Derek Mienie born 1941

Matt Farrant born 1973

You're a superstar!

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

I honestly thought this was a long shot, but full credit to the island and its inhabitants. On this occasion LHP, BT Cyril, and Mick.

Only 3 remaining then:
Habib Subah - plenty of articles about him online, but I can't find anything referencing his age.
Wayne Sanderson - played in the Canadian Professional Championship in the 80s
Matt Wilson (I agree can't be 1983). I'll keep looking.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

Seems there have been 2 snooker players named Matt Wilson. Not that surprising given how common the name is, I suppose.
The 1983 born player has been active recently and has had good amateur results. There's one article about him scoring 4 consecutive centuries in a league match, which is impressive. He hasn't been a pro though, and hasn't entered q school either, perhaps surprisingly.

The one we're after represented England in the 1992 World Amateur Championships in Malta.
He turned pro in 93 when anyone could, and won a fair amount of early round matches. He peaked in 95-96, reaching the quarter finals of the 1995 Benson & Hedges Championship, and losing 9-5 to Jimmy White in the last 64 of the 1995 UK Championship.
He lost 10-9 to Stuart Bingham in qualifying for the 1997 World Championship and his form seemed to tail off a lot after that.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

I'm now adding dates of birth into the Rankings Revisit spreadsheet. CSPrince has very kindly helped out with some of my missing dates already, and Bad Tempered Cyril has offered to have a look too. I'm therefore posting the missing ones here in this thread on the off-chance anyone can find any. Frankly, I'll be amazed if any are found.

The majority of the missing are either from the 70s, from the 90s open era, wild cards, or PTC event players.

If the older ones can be found, that would be most helpful for my spreadsheet. I don't think it really matters too much if I never find the others, it would just be a bonus.

As you can see from earlier in this thread, I've looked for some of these before without success.

I'll post the list of players in a minute.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

So for these players, I have the year of birth, but not the date:

1992 Michal Zielinski
1991 Greg Davis
1982 Robert Valiant
1973 Matthew Farrant
1972 Saleh Mohammad
1966 Roger Garrett
1962 Greg Jenkins
1955 Tom Finstad
1941 Derek Mienie
1929 Gary Owen
1926 Maurice Parkin
1921 Warren Simpson

Re: Ages of some players

Postby chengdufan

The remaining players are listed in 'date of match played' order, the ones who played most recently are at the bottom of the list. The ones nearer the top of the list would be the most useful to find into on:

Geoff Thompson
Allan McDonald
Ron Mares
Ron Gross
Dennis Wheelwright
John Barrie
Jim Charlton
Roy Amdor
Kevin Robitaille
Sid Hood
John Phillips
Chris Ross
Paul Mifsud
Wayne Sanderson
Mannie Francisco
Sam Frangie
Vladimir Potazsnyk
Richard Moore
Alan Peacock
Paul Webb
Brian Cassidy
Kieran McAlinden
Simon Haggerty
Dale Milton
Michael Stocks
Paul Dawkins
Craig Johnston-Allen
Nicky Lazarus
Mark Evans
Mark Pugh
Peter Donegan
Kevin Young
Craig Newson
Micky Wareham
Sonic Multani
Sukhbir Grewal
Kevin Ashby
Guy Dennis
Mark Boyd
Frank Dezi
Tony Rampello
Frank Maskell
Barry Bunn
Danny Smith
Darren Guest
John Timson
Michael Gold
Michael Valentine
Paul Morgan
Richard Pincott
Stuart Henderson
Alain de cockerel
Nico Devlies
John Shilton
Ooi Chin Kay
David Buskin
Jonathan Saunders
Stephen Roberts
Daniel Murphy
Anthony Halpin
Colin Kelly
Gerry Jones
Jimmy Long
Joe Canny
Tim Bailey
Yong Kien Foot
Dieter Johns
Peter Wagner
Thomas Schweser
Frans Mintoff
Ray Demanuele
Richard Webb
Simon Camilleri
Kevin McCallum
David Rippon
Anurat Wongjan
Kwok Ming Chan
Michael Duffy
Neil Wood
Wayne Lloyd
Rom Saraburi
Chan Wai Tat
Phirom Ritthiprasong
Anan Terananon
Hasimu Tuerxun
Rao Shan
Yang Ji'an
Matt Wilson
Zhang Kai
Keen Hoo Moh
Li Yinxi
Zheng Peng
A Bulajiang
Ahmed Basheer Al-Khusaibi
Ahmed Ghuloom
Isa Ali Al-Hashmi
Cao Kaisheng
Neil Selman
Shi Shuangyang
Olivier Vandenboheede
David Bailey
Gavin Butler
Ashik Nathwani
Daniel Skingle
Kamran Ashraf
Rock Hui
Shahrukh Nasir
Shaun Parkes
Deniz Anar
Michael Betzinger
Michael Seidel
Naresh Samarawickrama
Patrick Fuchs
Robert Sax
Rogier van der Kamp
Uwe Seyler
Willen Monfils
Wladimir Ponomarenko
Allan Morgan
Anish Gokool
Habib Subah
James Loft
Jamie Edwards
Matt Williams
Curd Persyn
Pierre Dethier
Jörg Ebert
Jörn Hannes-Hühn
Uli Ottner
Jamie Brown
Marc Harman
Pascal Richard
Andreas Cieslak
Benjamin Frömmel
Christopher Frömmel
Danny Douane
Mario van Herk
Nicole Breitenstein
Ralph Müller
Robert Drahn
Alex O'Donaghue
Jan Klecka
Jan Prihoda
Jan Vimr
Jaromir Malanta
Jindrich Prchal
Karel Petracek
Matt Yeadon
Maurice Le Duc
Ronni Beniesch
Serge Dupraz
Simon Ceo
Pavel Leyk
James Murdoch
James Welsh
Shahram Changezi
Adam Polak
Adrian Materek
Karol Szuba-Jablonski
Krzysztof Gorniak
Krzysztof Kubicki
Maciej Relich
Michał Ebert
Phan Quoc Binh
Piotr Murat
Wiktor Doberschütz
Anthony Cronin
Douglas Hogan
Jamie Walker
John Torpey
Jonathan Williams
JP Kelly
Julian Logue
Keith Sheldreck
Philip Browne
Ryan Cronin
Andy van Landeghem
Tim van Goubergen
Yannick Sablon
Hanzla Zahid
Jordan Church
Jordan Winbourne
Paul Metcalf
Stephen Ellis
James Hill
Brandon Winstone
James McGouran
Michele Battaglia
Stephen Winstone
Stuart Wood
Philip Arnold
Omar al Kojah
Lin Yongzhi
Xu Xinjian
Toby Simpson
Johnny Kells
Julian Treiber
Ole Steiner
Sanjin Kusan
Richard Remelie
Pan Weixing
Wang Linhan
Zhang Yang
Grzegorz Biernadski
Thomas Wealthy
Wiktor Rzezuchowski
Jurgen Van Den Bossche
Jurgen van Roy
Peter Vertommen
Raf van de Maele
Sebastiaan Vermeylen
Thomas Broeckx
George Marter
James Gillespie
Hassan Miah
Jamie Gibson
Liam Monk
Nico Elton
Ricky Norris
Shahbaz Hameed
Varun Madan
Darren Bond
Darrell Whitworth
Shaun Dalitz
Fozan Masood
Dean Sheridan
Zhu Yinghui
Chen Ruifu
Dharminder Lilly
Faisal Khan
Kamal Chawla
Shivam Arora
Sundeep Gulati
Mark White
Martin Ball
David Frew
Marcin Kolibski
Nathan Jones
Rafał Jewtuch
Cai Jianzhong
Ma Chunmao
Sun Peng
Zhong Lin

Re: Ages of some players

Postby SnookerEd25

chengdufan wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Just added 2 more (see above)

Thanks. I'm impressed you got Lou Condo. Couldn't find out much about him at all.


There was a Lou Condo Sr., and a Lou Condo Jr. I believe; both played various cue sports. One of them (Jr., I think) I remember playing in the 2000 9-ball World Championship in Cardiff - the year Steve Davis bt. Efren Reyes.

Re: Ages of some players

Postby SnookerEd25

John Barrie's dates are on Wikipedia (30 June 1924 – 20 April 1996)

Re: Ages of some players

Postby SnookerEd25

As are Ron Gross' (Ronald Gross (1932-25 December 2005)

At least gives a birth year anyway