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What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby shanew48

ImSnookered wrote:I see Jamie Jones has entered Q-School this year, so if he is successful and gets his tour card back, baring in mind what he was suspended & subsequently lost his tour place for, Will he be welcomed back with open arms by fans or will there always be that cloud around him?

I personally believe everyone deserves a second chance and considering he was not directly involved and was actually acquitted, I'm willing to give him that.


He doesn't have any fans, he could walk past me in the street and I wouldn't recognise him, the only players who have genuine fans in the truest sense are Ronnie, Trump, Robertson, Jimmy White, Ding.

That's why I never understand when the commentators say things like "Fans of [Players name] will be worried now" if they are about to get knocked out of a tournament and the player they will be talking about will be Ian Burns or Ross Muir or someone similarly unknown to even people who like snooker! lol

Ronnie does genuinely transcend the sport of snooker, there are a small number of players who have a genuine fan following like Ronnie, Trump, White, Alex Higgins and Steve Davis did also.

The question then becomes what constitutes a Fan of any given player, I guess you could say someone that you go out of your way to watch, I'm the opposite with Selby, John Higgins, as if they are playing it's just too much hard work to watch them, especially if they are in a final, wasn't there that final in china that went to a decider where the match took like 5 or 6 hours or someone and the commentators were trying to put their usual positive spin on it with the usual "what we are watching here is tough match play snooker with no quarter given between two of the toughest players the game has ever seen" blah blah blah, Selby has already proved on numerous occasions that he isn't interested in how long it takes, if the crowd are getting value for money etc, to be fair to Trump he actually says that he makes a concerted effort to actually entertain the people who have paid to come and watch and a fine job he does, that's why people have genuine affection for players like Ronnie or Trump and Alex Higgins before them because they understood that they are there to win but they are also there to entertain the people who are in attendance and watching at home.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby McManusFan

I think the thing you are originally quoting is refering to fans of snooker generally rather than fans of Jamie Jones.

I also don't really know what you mean by "genuine fans in the truest sense". It's true that players like Ronnie, Ding and Trump probably have MORE fans than other players, but I'm sure every single player on the tour will have at least one fan, even if it's just their mum (Mark Joyce is the obvious exception).

Personally I would say I was a big fan of Higgins, and I actually enjoyed that final between him and Selby (I think it was the International Championship). Sure it didn't have big breaks going in every frame, but it was close and dramatic, and I was gutted when Selby won.

I also don't particularly enjoy Trump's style of play, his ability to pull off outlandishly good recover pots means his breaks are somehow less elegent. I can appreciate he's clearly very good, but it just doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

Basically I think there are different types of snooker fans, and that's great!

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby Dan-cat

SnookerFan wrote:The OP seems to be suggesting that you're only allowed to like players if they're household names.


The OP is incorrect. And that's putting it politely. Take Sundaygirl for example, obsessive about Walden. And McManusfan... Lolz. I love Theppy, and Jackie D, even if he is testing my patience recently.

Numpty post.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby lhpirnie

McManusFan wrote:Basically I think there are different types of snooker fans, and that's great!

I think Alex Higgins cured me of fanboyism - I was 9 when he won in 1982. As I got older I began to understand what kind of person he was, and then when I started playing snooker myself I became a supporter of Steve Davis, but more out of 'respect' for his skills. I still have that huge respect for all the top players, whether it be O'Sullivan, Selby, Murphy, and I greatly enjoy watching their skills. But it's not about their 'personality'.


These days I choose a number of young players to watch each season, following their progress, their breakthroughs and their setbacks. As a bit of a technical nerd I like to see how they go about building their game. It's just as rewarding as watching the same-old-faces competing to win a big tournament, again. It's also sustainable: I won't be left distraught when Ronnie retires, although will miss him.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby Prop

lhpirnie wrote:
McManusFan wrote:Basically I think there are different types of snooker fans, and that's great!

I think Alex Higgins cured me of fanboyism - I was 9 when he won in 1982. As I got older I began to understand what kind of person he was, and then when I started playing snooker myself I became a supporter of Steve Davis, but more out of 'respect' for his skills. I still have that huge respect for all the top players, whether it be O'Sullivan, Selby, Murphy, and I greatly enjoy watching their skills. But it's not about their 'personality'.


These days I choose a number of young players to watch each season, following their progress, their breakthroughs and their setbacks. As a bit of a technical nerd I like to see how they go about building their game. It's just as rewarding as watching the same-old-faces competing to win a big tournament, again. It's also sustainable: I won't be left distraught when Ronnie retires, although will miss him.


That makes sense. And let’s be honest, snooker needs us to be interested in following the progress of those young players. If everyone’s focus remains on the likes of Ronnie, Robertson and Ding, there’ll come a point where casual fans lose interest in the sport when those players finish their careers. I suppose it’s part and parcel of that BBC syndrome - “I’ve never seen this young lad play, Dennis”.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby SnookerFan

Dan-cat wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:The OP seems to be suggesting that you're only allowed to like players if they're household names.


The OP is incorrect. And that's putting it politely. Take Sundaygirl for example, obsessive about Walden. And McManusfan... Lolz. I love Theppy, and Jackie D, even if he is testing my patience recently.

Numpty post.


She likes Matthew Stevens as well.

Oh wait.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby McManusFan

Prop wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
McManusFan wrote:Basically I think there are different types of snooker fans, and that's great!

I think Alex Higgins cured me of fanboyism - I was 9 when he won in 1982. As I got older I began to understand what kind of person he was, and then when I started playing snooker myself I became a supporter of Steve Davis, but more out of 'respect' for his skills. I still have that huge respect for all the top players, whether it be O'Sullivan, Selby, Murphy, and I greatly enjoy watching their skills. But it's not about their 'personality'.


These days I choose a number of young players to watch each season, following their progress, their breakthroughs and their setbacks. As a bit of a technical nerd I like to see how they go about building their game. It's just as rewarding as watching the same-old-faces competing to win a big tournament, again. It's also sustainable: I won't be left distraught when Ronnie retires, although will miss him.


That makes sense. And let’s be honest, snooker needs us to be interested in following the progress of those young players. If everyone’s focus remains on the likes of Ronnie, Robertson and Ding, there’ll come a point where casual fans lose interest in the sport when those players finish their careers. I suppose it’s part and parcel of that BBC syndrome - “I’ve never seen this young lad play, Dennis”.


I think that's a touch pessimistic. When the new players start getting the big results they'll be there to replace the likes of Robertson, and Ding (probably not Ronnie though).

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby lhpirnie

McManusFan wrote:
Prop wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
McManusFan wrote:Basically I think there are different types of snooker fans, and that's great!

I think Alex Higgins cured me of fanboyism - I was 9 when he won in 1982. As I got older I began to understand what kind of person he was, and then when I started playing snooker myself I became a supporter of Steve Davis, but more out of 'respect' for his skills. I still have that huge respect for all the top players, whether it be O'Sullivan, Selby, Murphy, and I greatly enjoy watching their skills. But it's not about their 'personality'.


These days I choose a number of young players to watch each season, following their progress, their breakthroughs and their setbacks. As a bit of a technical nerd I like to see how they go about building their game. It's just as rewarding as watching the same-old-faces competing to win a big tournament, again. It's also sustainable: I won't be left distraught when Ronnie retires, although will miss him.


That makes sense. And let’s be honest, snooker needs us to be interested in following the progress of those young players. If everyone’s focus remains on the likes of Ronnie, Robertson and Ding, there’ll come a point where casual fans lose interest in the sport when those players finish their careers. I suppose it’s part and parcel of that BBC syndrome - “I’ve never seen this young lad play, Dennis”.


I think that's a touch pessimistic. When the new players start getting the big results they'll be there to replace the likes of Robertson, and Ding (probably not Ronnie though).

It is pessimistic, but it's also a legitimate concern. What will happen to snooker in the next 5-10 years? It's looking like Judd Trump will have to carry the sport on his own. I do think the young players have a tough time with the current tour structure. And I agree with Prop that some of the broadcasters are not helping at all. There was a surprisingly good reaction when some younger players were actually shown in the Covid Classic (CL). It's not the case that people are only interested in the top-10 and a few other old players.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby Prop

It’s worth remembering that when Hendry and O’Sullivan became household names there were still only 4 or 5 terrestrial TV channels. That was it in the late 80s and early 90s. So just like the ‘golden age’ players like Alex Higgins and Davis had huge exposure because there were so few channels to watch, the same rule applied (perhaps to a marginally smaller extent) with Hendry and Ronnie.

As time has gone on the coverage of snooker has become smaller and smaller in the context of exposure. There’s streaming, Netflix, and much more than “13 channels of rubbish on the TV to choose from” today.

So maybe an equivalent teenage prodigy today isn’t going to create the buzz Hendry and Ron did. Not outside the snooker bubble at least. Therefore there is an argument that these players need a bit more attention now if they’re going to become as loved as today’s and yesterday’s household names. Success of course is down to the player. They either do the business or they don’t. But fandom is a different thing.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby McManusFan

lhpirnie wrote:
McManusFan wrote:
I think that's a touch pessimistic. When the new players start getting the big results they'll be there to replace the likes of Robertson, and Ding (probably not Ronnie though).

It is pessimistic, but it's also a legitimate concern. What will happen to snooker in the next 5-10 years? It's looking like Judd Trump will have to carry the sport on his own. I do think the young players have a tough time with the current tour structure. And I agree with Prop that some of the broadcasters are not helping at all. There was a surprisingly good reaction when some younger players were actually shown in the Covid Classic (CL). It's not the case that people are only interested in the top-10 and a few other old players.


I agree that the lack of upcoming talent is very much a concern, and you're right the tour structure really isn't great for it. But I don't think the blame for that should go on the fans, and to a lesser extent it shouldn't be shouldered by the broadcasters either. I can't think of a single sport where the most popular players/teams aren't also the most successful.

Prop made a great point about there only being a couple of channels to watch when snooker became massive in the 80s. This was also free to air TV, nowadays the vast majority of the tour is locked behind the Eurosport paywall (at least in the UK, out of interest does anyone know how it's televised in China?). I think that in order to get more young people interested in snooker it needs to experiment with going online - a tournament on youtube or twitch that's free for everyone around the world to watch could only be a good thing.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby ImSnookered

shanew48 wrote:
ImSnookered wrote:I see Jamie Jones has entered Q-School this year, so if he is successful and gets his tour card back, baring in mind what he was suspended & subsequently lost his tour place for, Will he be welcomed back with open arms by fans or will there always be that cloud around him?

I personally believe everyone deserves a second chance and considering he was not directly involved and was actually acquitted, I'm willing to give him that.


He doesn't have any fans, he could walk past me in the street and I wouldn't recognise him, the only players who have genuine fans in the truest sense are Ronnie, Trump, Robertson, Jimmy White, Ding.

That's why I never understand when the commentators say things like "Fans of [Players name] will be worried now" if they are about to get knocked out of a tournament and the player they will be talking about will be Ian Burns or Ross Muir or someone similarly unknown to even people who like snooker! lol

Ronnie does genuinely transcend the sport of snooker, there are a small number of players who have a genuine fan following like Ronnie, Trump, White, Alex Higgins and Steve Davis did also.

The question then becomes what constitutes a Fan of any given player, I guess you could say someone that you go out of your way to watch, I'm the opposite with Selby, John Higgins, as if they are playing it's just too much hard work to watch them, especially if they are in a final, wasn't there that final in china that went to a decider where the match took like 5 or 6 hours or someone and the commentators were trying to put their usual positive spin on it with the usual "what we are watching here is tough match play snooker with no quarter given between two of the toughest players the game has ever seen" blah blah blah, Selby has already proved on numerous occasions that he isn't interested in how long it takes, if the crowd are getting value for money etc, to be fair to Trump he actually says that he makes a concerted effort to actually entertain the people who have paid to come and watch and a fine job he does, that's why people have genuine affection for players like Ronnie or Trump and Alex Higgins before them because they understood that they are there to win but they are also there to entertain the people who are in attendance and watching at home.


You have interpreted what i said completely wrong and used what i said in a completely different context to what i intended.

I merely made an observation on looking at the Q-School draws that Jamie Jones had entered, I never said or mentioned anything about Jones' fans in particular or myself being one, I meant snooker fans in general and what their opinions of him returning may be.

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby chengdufan

McManusFan wrote:does anyone know how it's televised in China?

On very rare occasions, they broadcast a few frames of Ding on tv.
You can usually watch any table via on online stream for free.
I'm watching now on youku.com

Re: What constitutes A 'Fan' of A Particular Player?

Postby McManusFan

chengdufan wrote:
McManusFan wrote:does anyone know how it's televised in China?

On very rare occasions, they broadcast a few frames of Ding on tv.
You can usually watch any table via on online stream for free.
I'm watching now on youku.com


Cheers, interesting stuff.