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Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Acé

Iranu wrote:When has Williams “smashed up” Ronnie, Higgins, Hendry or Judd? Genuine question as I can’t think of a time he has. He’s beaten them of course but I can’t remember him demolishing them.

And more to the point why is Judd a part of this conversation but not Robbo, for example? What has Judd achieved that Robbo hasn’t?

Peak level snooker had nothing to do with the other opponent. Ronnie and Judd have both played peak level snooker against ‘lesser’ opponents. Look at how Selby played in the English Open final. He would have won that match regardless of who he was playing, he was phenomenal.

You say Selby’s always struggling but you’re ignoring the evidence to the contrary.

I defend Selby against idiots who claim he’s a talentless grinder because he’s clearly a lot more than that. He’s one of the most decorated players in the history of the game. Please show me another “talentless grinder” who’s even come close to his achievements.


Williams has given hiding to Ronnie and Higgins in the early 2000s in finals and given a hiding to Hendry in the 90s too. Robertson isn't in the tourament so I dunno why I would be discussing him, Judd and Selby are.

Judd and Ronnie have played peak level snooker against THE GREATS and demolished them from time to time, ofc they've also received the same in return but that's what makes them great. Judd beating Ronnie 10-4 at the Masters and Higgins 18-9 at the WC is >>>>>>>>>>>> x1000 more impressive than Selby beating whoever that choker farmer was in that tournament lmao

same way as Ronnie smashing Hendry at 2004 WC and Higgins at 2005 Masters, 2007 Masters etc, those are peak performances that Selby can't do against the greats because he doesn't have the skill, he has to drag his opponents down to win rather than go out there and put on a clinic.

Ronnie was leading 10-5 at 2014 WC and Higgins was leading 10-4 at 2017 WC, only due to grindfests their game was lowered to Selby's level then Selby won otherwise if Higgins/Ronnie were at their peak they would've battered Selby 18-12 AT WORST

Selby isn't decorated either despite being a 3x champion he never got the adoration from the fans nor his peers. Hendry said "he's good at winning UGLY" that's the best recognition he's got lol he's like the Djokovic of Snooker. Won many trophies, but the crowd always against them because they play a boring style of their respective sports and they don't have any personality/flair to root for.

You can keep defending Selby cuz you like boring grinders and he's your idol otherwise you wouldn't go to this extent to defend him and it's only Selby you go to this extent for, I'll keep attacking because I like offensive/attacking/flair players. We are the opposite.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby csprince

if higgins/ronnie were at their peak they would of battered selby 18-12 at worst.

you can't rewrite history they lost.yes i find selby dull as dishwater to watch and i turn over and find something else to watch but you can't knock his record charisma don't put food on the table or pay's bills you don't like selby we get it neither do i but i don't lovely lady about it all the time.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby csprince

Acé wrote:
csprince wrote:if higgins/ronnie were at their peak they would of battered selby 18-12 at worst.

you can't rewrite history they lost.yes i find selby dull as dishwater to watch and i turn over and find something else to watch but you can't knock his record charisma don't put food on the table or pay's bills you don't like selby we get it neither do i but i don't lovely lady about it all the time.


Then mind your own business lol don't participate in the discussion


why should i mind my own business it's a public forum am i not allowed to give an opinion that is different to yours.or maybe i should just agree with you.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Iranu

Acé wrote:
Iranu wrote:When has Williams “smashed up” Ronnie, Higgins, Hendry or Judd? Genuine question as I can’t think of a time he has. He’s beaten them of course but I can’t remember him demolishing them.

And more to the point why is Judd a part of this conversation but not Robbo, for example? What has Judd achieved that Robbo hasn’t?

Peak level snooker had nothing to do with the other opponent. Ronnie and Judd have both played peak level snooker against ‘lesser’ opponents. Look at how Selby played in the English Open final. He would have won that match regardless of who he was playing, he was phenomenal.

You say Selby’s always struggling but you’re ignoring the evidence to the contrary.

I defend Selby against idiots who claim he’s a talentless grinder because he’s clearly a lot more than that. He’s one of the most decorated players in the history of the game. Please show me another “talentless grinder” who’s even come close to his achievements.


Williams has given hiding to Ronnie and Higgins in the early 2000s in finals and given a hiding to Hendry in the 90s too. Robertson isn't in the tourament so I dunno why I would be discussing him, Judd and Selby are.

Judd and Ronnie have played peak level snooker against THE GREATS and demolished them from time to time, ofc they've also received the same in return but that's what makes them great. Judd beating Ronnie 10-4 at the Masters and Higgins 18-9 at the WC is >>>>>>>>>>>> x1000 more impressive than Selby beating whoever that choker farmer was in that tournament lmao

same way as Ronnie smashing Hendry at 2004 WC and Higgins at 2005 Masters, 2007 Masters etc, those are peak performances that Selby can't do against the greats because he doesn't have the skill, he has to drag his opponents down to win rather than go out there and put on a clinic.

Ronnie was leading 10-5 at 2014 WC and Higgins was leading 10-4 at 2017 WC, only due to grindfests their game was lowered to Selby's level then Selby won otherwise if Higgins/Ronnie were at their peak they would've battered Selby 18-12 AT WORST

Selby isn't decorated either despite being a 3x champion he never got the adoration from the fans nor his peers. Hendry said "he's good at winning UGLY" that's the best recognition he's got lol he's like the Djokovic of Snooker. Won many trophies, but the crowd always against them because they play a boring style of their respective sports and they don't have any personality/flair to root for.

You can keep defending Selby cuz you like boring grinders and he's your idol otherwise you wouldn't go to this extent to defend him and it's only Selby you go to this extent for, I'll keep attacking because I like offensive/attacking/flair players. We are the opposite.

So I’ve looked at MJW’s record against Hendry, Ronnie and Higgins in finals:

He beat Hendry 9-2 in the ‘97 British Open but only made two breaks over 60.

He’s beaten Ronnie in one final, in the 2000 Grand Prix and it was 9-5 so hardly a demolition.

Likewise his most comfortable victory over Higgins was 9-5 in the 2003 LG Cup.

So he hasn’t demolished any of the greats in a final with peak snooker. But you don’t care because you like to watch him.

I agree that Judd destroying Ronnie in the Masters and Higgins in the WC are more impressive than Selby destroying Gilbert. That was never my point. Peak snooker has nothing to do with who you’re playing, they’re completely different. Although I will say that Judd’s performance against Higgins was a bit more impressive because of his previous record against him.

Decoration and adoration are also completely different. Hendry was hated at his peak. I doubt his trophy cabinet cares.

Trust me I’m no fan of Selby’s although I don’t hate him as much as some. If nothing else he’s inflicted some of the most painful losses I’ve ever watched as a fan.

I defend him more than anyone else because nobody else on this forum gets anywhere near as much rubbish as Selby does. Just because I’m not a fan that doesn’t mean it’s fair. You’ve failed time and again to address what i say, just dismissing him as a talentless grinder despite evidence to the contrary.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Holden Chinaski

Selby at his best has the game to beat anyone, and he has done. Fantastic safety game, great break builder, and mentally you can't break him. I have a lot of respect for him. Just look at his record, you can't deny he's one of the greats. I think Judd will probably go on to achieve even more, he definitely has the talent, but he needs to do it first.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Acé

Iranu wrote:So I’ve looked at MJW’s record against Hendry, Ronnie and Higgins in finals:

He beat Hendry 9-2 in the ‘97 British Open but only made two breaks over 60.

He’s beaten Ronnie in one final, in the 2000 Grand Prix and it was 9-5 so hardly a demolition.

Likewise his most comfortable victory over Higgins was 9-5 in the 2003 LG Cup.

So he hasn’t demolished any of the greats in a final with peak snooker. But you don’t care because you like to watch him.

I agree that Judd destroying Ronnie in the Masters and Higgins in the WC are more impressive than Selby destroying Gilbert. That was never my point. Peak snooker has nothing to do with who you’re playing, they’re completely different. Although I will say that Judd’s performance against Higgins was a bit more impressive because of his previous record against him.

Decoration and adoration are also completely different. Hendry was hated at his peak. I doubt his trophy cabinet cares.

Trust me I’m no fan of Selby’s although I don’t hate him as much as some. If nothing else he’s inflicted some of the most painful losses I’ve ever watched as a fan.

I defend him more than anyone else because nobody else on this forum gets anywhere near as much rubbish as Selby does. Just because I’m not a fan that doesn’t mean it’s fair. You’ve failed time and again to address what i say, just dismissing him as a talentless grinder despite evidence to the contrary.


Don;t know what planet you live on but 9-5 is a demolition and that was during the time when the Co92 were in their prime so it holds far more weight than Selby destroying the farmer

there is a far bigger difference between playing peak snooker and demolishing a great of the game vs playing peak snooker against a farmer, I've yet to see Selby demolish the likes of Higgins, Judd, Ronnie etc without the need to grind them down

You keep defending him because you're a fan and what you write is contradictory to everything you say because you defend Selby to the bottomless pit, while I'll keep attacking him, after all it's my right and I don't have to like him so you';ll have to suck it up Selby fanboy.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Iranu

In what world is 9-5 a demolition? It’s a convincing victory, yes, but not a demolition. And he didn’t play peak snooker in wither of those matches anyway so by your own criteria he apparently isn’t a great player!

Even if what you say about peaks is true (it isn’t) you’re arguing that Selby is a talentless grinder just because he hasn’t done what the greatest players in the history of the game have done (and Judd who is the 2nd most talented player I’ve ever seen).

You keep saying he needs to grind players down, this isn’t true either! In the 2016 UK final he made three centuries in the last three frames he won and Ronnie made two centuries and an 80 in the last three that he won.

It’s a ridiculous argument. He’s the 6th highest century maker of all time for crying out loud.

You just hate him so you don’t want to say anything positive about him and can’t stand the fact that he’s a good player because you’re a child.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Acé

Iranu wrote:In what world is 9-5 a demolition? It’s a convincing victory, yes, but not a demolition. And he didn’t play peak snooker in wither of those matches anyway so by your own criteria he apparently isn’t a great player!

Even if what you say about peaks is true (it isn’t) you’re arguing that Selby is a talentless grinder just because he hasn’t done what the greatest players in the history of the game have done (and Judd who is the 2nd most talented player I’ve ever seen).

You keep saying he needs to grind players down, this isn’t true either! In the 2016 UK final he made three centuries in the last three frames he won and Ronnie made two centuries and an 80 in the last three that he won.

It’s a ridiculous argument. He’s the 6th highest century maker of all time for crying out loud.

You just hate him so you don’t want to say anything positive about him and can’t stand the fact that he’s a good player because you’re a child.


9-5 is a demolition that's not even close to a close match or an average match the Class of 92 were all in their prime in the early 2000s so Williams having those victories over greats like Higgins and Ronnie count, he managed to put in a clinic with an overwhelming scoreline.

Yes exactly, that's what I'm saying he hasn't done what the other greats have. Every great that I've watched has managed to beat him other with a demolition job through peak level snooker, through their own play with an overwhelming scorelines, Selby has never done that he always has to scrape over the line to win.

2016 UK? lol that was a 10-7 scoreline, average/close match. I admit tho that's probably the closest Selby has got to destroying a great in the final he led 7-2 but Ronnie knocked in 5 frames which took away from a demolition job.

I don't like him cuz of his playing style, what's not to understand? There isn't a book that I have to give respect to your God Selby. get over it.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Iranu

So, to be clear:

Apparently it doesn’t matter than MJW didn’t play peak snooker in any of those matches, despite that being your own criteria.

And apparently 4 frames is a demolition but 3 frames is a close match.

Got it.

Child.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Holden Chinaski

Selby has won 3 World titles, 3 Masters titles, 2 UK titles, and 17 ranking titles in total. He beat Ronnie in World, UK, and Masters finals. He has made more than 600 century breaks, including 3 maximums. He's been at the top of the rankings 7 times.

Like him or not, he has done enough to be respected as one of the all-time greats.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Pink Ball

Holden Chinaski wrote:Selby has won 3 World titles, 3 Masters titles, 2 UK titles, and 17 ranking titles in total. He beat Ronnie in World, UK, and Masters finals. He has made more than 600 century breaks, including 3 maximums. He's been at the top of the rankings 7 times.

Like him or not, he has done enough to be respected as one of the all-time greats.

Easily top ten of all time.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Acé

I have never ever said he isn't one of the all time greats of course he is.

Heck Selby is a better long session player than Judd because he's won more WCs but that doesn't mean he's a better snooker player if you factor a player's peak level.

Joe Davis has 10+ world championships, but if he encountered Judd Trump it's not gonna stop 2019 Trump from rag dolling Joe Davis across the table 18-1 or 18-0 in a WC final.

There is a difference between talking about greatness and peak level snooker. Greatness is related to achievements. Peak level and performance isn't.

A player could score 18 147's in a WC final but that'd be the only WC he'd win. He wouldn't be greater than any of the greats but he'd have the highest level of snooker displayed.

PLEASE I BEG YOU GUYS

learn the DIFFERENCE

this is why you guys keep getting confused with me lol

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Acé

Yeah that's why Selby has an awful record against Judd,

2011 China Open = Judd 10-8
2014 CoC = Judd 6-1
2015 German Masters = Selby 5-4
2016 European Masters = Judd 6-2
2019 Masters = Judd 6-2
2019 World Grand Prix = Judd 5-1
2019 International Champs (Selby's stronghold) = Judd 9-4

2 years Selby was a WC champion in he got battered.

The match-up speaks for itself.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF OPE

Postby Iranu

Holden Chinaski wrote:I'd say peak level Judd would be a much better long potter, but that's it. In all other aspects, I'd say peak level Selby is better than Judd.

Judd’s also a bit more prolific in scoring but other than that I’d agree.

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships QF OPE

Postby PLtheRef

[size=150]Semi-Final Results

Compared to the Quarter-Finals, the Semi-Finals were very close.

Because Trump and Selby have never met at the Crucible their Crucible record counts for 25% of their score. As Higgins and O'Sullivan have played five times there their head to head counts for 50%

Head to Head
Judd Trump [1] - England 9.21% - 15.79% Mark Selby [5] - England

John Higgins [3] - Scotland 27.78% - 22.22% Ronnie O'Sullivan [2] - England

Match predictions very little in them with 11 between the players in the first Semi-Final and just one between the two in the second Semi-Final


Match Predictions
Judd Trump [1] - England 39.78% - 35.22% Mark Selby [5] - England

John Higgins [3] - Scotland 25.13% - 24.87% Ronnie O'Sullivan [2] - England


Percentage Outcome
Judd Trump [1] - England 48.99% - 51.01% Mark Selby [5] - England

John Higgins [3] - Scotland 52.91% - 47.09% Ronnie O'Sullivan [2] - England



Match Results
Judd Trump [1] - England 16 - 17 Mark Selby [5] - England

John Higgins [3] - Scotland 17 - 15 Ronnie O'Sullivan [2] - England


Final predictions to be open tomorrow.

Some interesting debates over the last few pages. - The nature of the beast is that with any format which was chosen some players would do better than others. If matches hadn't been weighted, I would have expected Davis and Hendry to do considerably better (though they happened to run into players with unbeaten records against them). If you purely go to a vote, then it becomes more of a popularity contest. If you go on frames won rather than points, you get a potentially separate set of results (as with the current format, an 18-17 world final win beats four 10-1 victories).

Re: 2020 SI World Championship of World Championships SF RES

Postby SnookerEd25

Pink Ball wrote:“Oh brilliant, a Higgins-Selby final” said nobody ever.


Exactly what I thought ahead of the 2017 climax, but actually ended up really enjoying the contest.

One thing is for sure - it should be close...