Ronnie is scared of Judd Trump

Judd Trump is the new King of Snooker, everyone knows this and Ronnie himself knows this.

Reason Ronnie is going on about missing tournaments is because he knows he will meet Judd down the line more often than not now ESPECIALLY IN FINALS and given the Ireland 2018 beating and Master 2019 thrashing as well as climbing a mountain to beat Judd at the Tour Championship, he knows he won't be able to beat Judd.

It's a case of a dominant alpha male taking over and Judd is the new alpha male.

SnookerFan wrote::zzz:

Why do you get upset everytime I say Judd is better than Ronnie?

Peak level too.

At least try to counter my points if you can. What have I said wrong?

Ace wrote:

SnookerFan wrote::zzz:

Why do you get upset everytime I say Judd is better than Ronnie?

Peak level too.

At least try to counter my points if you can. What have I said wrong?

Sorry.

I thought you were making a joke about Barry Hearn's blatherings, which I found boring.

Also, Judd's peak level is not better than Ronnie's peak level. That's just not true.

Ronnie never missed any tournaments until this year.

SnookerFan wrote:Sorry.

I thought you were making a joke about Barry Hearn's blatherings, which I found boring.

Also, Judd's peak level is not better than Ronnie's peak level. That's just not true.

What makes you say that? I would actually like a decent arguement please.

For starters I'll tell you the biggest point:

1. RONNIE himself said Judd's peak level in that final was the highest level of Snooker he has ever seen.
2. Judd did it against JOHN HIGGINS of all people, no one including Hendry or Ronnie have beaten Higgins over that distance with such brutal, all around snooker.
3. JOHN HIGGINS said he's never seen anything like it in his press conference after the final.
4. BBC news, media, Twitter, all the snooker media etc were hailing it as the best quality final ever.

You CAN'T get those accolades if your peak wasn't the highest.

Judd's peak >>> Ronnie's peak. Ronnie has never played snooker to that quality and hasn't scored 7 centuries in a world final either. You could even make an arguement that Judd's breakbuilding is >>> Ronnie given the stats and play.

Iranu wrote:Ronnie never missed any tournaments until this year.

But he will be now. Deep down he knows he can't contain Judd. As I said Judd has taken the game to a new level and this has shook Ronnie up.

Unless Ronnie wants more defeats at the hands of Judd in finals...but is Ronnie able to accept more defeats against a single player against a packed out public on big occasions? Judd will crush him.

And as everyone knows, fans like winners and this is true for every sport. They will naturally move for Judd and leave Ronnie if Judd keeps beating him.

Ace wrote:
For starters I'll tell you the biggest point:

1. RONNIE himself said Judd's peak level in that final was the highest level of Snooker he has ever seen.
2. Judd did it against JOHN HIGGINS of all people, no one including Hendry or Ronnie have beaten Higgins over that distance with such brutal, all around snooker.
3. BBC news, media, Twitter, all the snooker media etc were hailing it as the best quality final ever.

You CAN'T get those accolades if your peak wasn't the highest.

Judd's peak >>> Ronnie's peak. Ronnie has never played snooker to that quality and hasn't scored 7 centuries in a world final either. You could even make an arguement that Judd's breakbuilding is >>> Ronnie given the stats and play.

You have no real argument, to be fair. Let me address your points.

1. RONNIE himself said Judd's peak level in that final was the highest level of Snooker he has ever seen.

That's Ronnie being Ronnie. He constantly spanks himself about what a great player John Higgins is as well. And constantly puts his own play down. That doesn't mean anything.

Besides, this the man who promised to retire at 17, said Power Snooker was better than the World Championship and claimed he'd go anywhere in the world for a ranking point despite missing half the tournaments. Last season he said that a break-away tour featuring himself, John Higgins, Stephen Lee and the two Chinese lads who got banned for cheating was a good idea.

If you think Ronnie agreeing with you automatically means your point makes sense, you really haven't listened to Ronnie talking very often.

2. Judd did it against JOHN HIGGINS of all people, no one including Hendry or Ronnie have beaten Higgins over that distance with such brutal, all around snooker

What about the 2005 Masters final?

3. BBC news, media, Twitter, all the snooker media etc were hailing it as the best quality final ever.

The same BBC that constantly calls Ronnie a genius? The same BBC who had every pundit at the 2018 UK Championship had every single one of their pundits call Ronnie the GOAT, due to his Triple Crown Tally?

Listen to the BBC on commentary or punditry. In terms of Ronnie's play, they're falling all over each other to praise him. Your idea that the BBC praising Judd's title win somehow means that they've never praised Ronnie seems odd. It doesn't follow, and it certainly isn't true.

And, I'm not entirely sure why you think Twitter is a decent way to gauge anything.


Out of interest, are you new to watching snooker?

Ace wrote:

Iranu wrote:Ronnie never missed any tournaments until this year.

But he will be now.

You know that was sarcasm, right?

SnookerFan wrote:You have no real argument, to be fair. Let me address your points.

1. RONNIE himself said Judd's peak level in that final was the highest level of Snooker he has ever seen.

That's Ronnie being Ronnie. He constantly spanks himself about what a great player John Higgins is as well. And constantly puts his own play down. That doesn't mean anything.

Besides, this the man who promised to retire at 17, said Power Snooker was better than the World Championship and claimed he'd go anywhere in the world for a ranking point despite missing half the tournaments. Last season he said that a break-away tour featuring himself, John Higgins, Stephen Lee and the two Chinese lads who got banned for cheating was a good idea.

If you think Ronnie agreeing with you automatically means your point makes sense, you really haven't listened to Ronnie talking very often.

2. Judd did it against JOHN HIGGINS of all people, no one including Hendry or Ronnie have beaten Higgins over that distance with such brutal, all around snooker

What about the 2005 Masters final?

3. BBC news, media, Twitter, all the snooker media etc were hailing it as the best quality final ever.

The same BBC that constantly calls Ronnie a genius? The same BBC who had every pundit at the 2018 UK Championship had every single one of their pundits call Ronnie the GOAT, due to his Triple Crown Tally?

Listen to the BBC on commentary or punditry. In terms of Ronnie's play, they're falling all over each other to praise him. Your idea that the BBC praising Judd's title win somehow means that they've never praised Ronnie seems odd. It doesn't follow, and it certainly isn't true.

And, I'm not entirely sure why you think Twitter is a decent way to gauge anything.


Out of interest, are you new to watching snooker?

1. But Ronnie is talking purely about snooker there and no other drama that he likes to make to make headlines. That's the difference. His opinion are aligned with everyone else.

2. Is the 2005 Masters a World Championship final? No. It takes more talent to sustain that level of play in a world championship final and Judd was playing consistently brilliant snooker throughout, Judd also made 7 centuries against a better opponent than anyone else Ronnie has faced in a world championship final.

3. That was BEFORE we saw what Judd did in the World 2019s. Judd wasn't playing close to that level during UK 2018 but now they saw even more brilliant snooker and claimed Judd has shown the best peak level. Even Davis was literally scared saying he wouldn't want to play Judd in that form, I don't hear any other multiple World champion saying that, that's showing actual fear over Judd's play.

Just wait, if Ronnie decides to play and meets Judd in a final, he will be exposed, if the head to head last season wasn't clear enough you will see it one more time.

I get it, people don't like to see change. Most people will never accept someone new is better than someone who's been there but this is SPORT. It happens.

The old, always, ALWAYS get surpassed. I just don't know why people don't want to accept that. It's the nature of the game.

Ace wrote:I get it, people don't like to see change. Most people will never accept someone new is better than someone who's been there but this is SPORT. It happens.

Personally, if Ronnie retired tomorrow and never played snooker again, I wouldn't miss him. I've never been his biggest supporter, and even if I was the sport has to move on. I made that point in The King Is Dead thread, so you can't make out I'm some Ronnietard who is offended.

Ace wrote:Just wait, if Ronnie decides to play and meets Judd in a final, he will be exposed, if the head to head last season wasn't clear enough you will see it one more time.

Even if that does happen, so what? Nobody is debating that Judd is an awesome player, or that he isn't capable of beating Ronnie on his day. What's that supposed to prove? It doesn't prove your claim that Judd's peak is better than Ronnie's peak. Judd is 29 and Ronnie is 43.

SnookerFan wrote:
Personally, if Ronnie retired tomorrow and never played snooker again, I wouldn't miss him. I've never been his biggest supporter, and even if I was the sport has to move on. I made that point in The King Is Dead thread, so you can't make out I'm some Ronnietard who is offended.

This isn't about liking or disliking a player, it's about taking the game to a new level and being crowned a new king. Barry Hearn was exactly spot on, Judd is the new King. He's the the WC. Ronnie hasn't won it for 7 years losing against Carter, Cahill, Bingham LOL

Thing is Judd also destroyed Ronnie twice last season, especially at the Masters. Then Judd showed the highest level of snooker at the Worlds final, utterly shutting out Higgins which is immensely hard to do.

He is the man of the moment right now and the man to beat. If you're not the man to beat then how can you not be the King?

Even if that does happen, so what? Nobody is debating that Judd is an awesome player, or that he isn't capable of beating Ronnie on his day. What's that supposed to prove? It doesn't prove your claim that Judd's peak is better than Ronnie's peak. Judd is 29 and Ronnie is 43.

I have said times and times again, WORLD 2019 FINAL! How many times do I have to say this? 7 centuries, plethora of 50+ breaks, long potting, safety, shutting out a WELL PLAYING Higgins who just couldn't do anything against Judd. These are my reference points.

You haven't shown me any matches from Ronnie's career that are better in peak play than Judd's. I'm still waiting. But you're struggling to find any because you know Judd has the higher level of peak. What more points do you want me to say? At least I have a match to reference.

Ace wrote:You haven't shown me any matches from Ronnie's career that are better in peak play than Judd's. I'm still waiting. But you're struggling to find any because you know Judd has the higher level of peak. What more points do you want me to say? At least I have a match to reference.

Pretty much any Ronnie match from the 2004 World Championship.

And please don't say 2013 final vs Hawkins.

Higgins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 1000 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hawkins/x2 Carter/ Dott

Judd was awesome in this year’s final but Ronnie has played better than that.

Maybe not as scary in terms of outrageous potting etc but in all around clinical performance, he has.

That’s no insult to Judd who was incredible.

Ace wrote:And please don't say 2013 final vs Hawkins.

Out of interest, why did you think anybody would say that one?

Ronnie's World Championship of 2004 was a lot closer to the best he can play than what he did against Hawkins in 2013.

SnookerFan wrote:

Ace wrote:You haven't shown me any matches from Ronnie's career that are better in peak play than Judd's. I'm still waiting. But you're struggling to find any because you know Judd has the higher level of peak. What more points do you want me to say? At least I have a match to reference.

Pretty much any Ronnie match from the 2004 World Championship.

Thank you.

Okay. Good match, Ronnie was definitely good there but:

1. Trump scored more points than Ronnie at his peak did between those two matches. 1539 points vs 1681. They are both attacking, offensive players so this is a very important stat.
2. Trump scored 7 centuries, Ronnie only scored 2.
3. Higgins was a better opponent. Higgins scored 1050 points vs Hendry's 514. Which leads to point #4
4. Higgins scored 4 century breaks and 8 50+ breaks, Hendry only scored 3 50+ breaks and no centuries. Tying back to better opponent.

See? Surely you can see even through live play that 2019 final Higgins wasn't as bad as 2004 Hendry.

I dislike discussion like this one.

Who is better, Owens, Lewis, Bolt ?
Who is the GOAT ?
Is Federer peak > Laver peak ?

All this is subjective.

There is only one thing objective : Judd faces his peak while Ronnie's peak is behind him.

Ace wrote:
Thank you.

Okay. Good match, Ronnie was definitely good there but:

1. Trump scored more points than Ronnie at his peak did between those two matches. 1539 points vs 1681. They are both attacking, offensive players so this is a very important stat.
2. Trump scored 7 centuries, Ronnie only scored 2.
3. Higgins was a better opponent. Higgins scored 1050 points vs Hendry's 514. Which leads to point #4
4. Higgins scored 4 century breaks and 8 50+ breaks, Hendry only scored 3 50+ breaks and no centuries. Tying back to better opponent.

See?

So, I take it you are comparing the Judd final to the Ronnie vs Hendry semi? Out of interest, why did you pick that one match?

SnookerFan wrote:

Ace wrote:
Thank you.

Okay. Good match, Ronnie was definitely good there but:

1. Trump scored more points than Ronnie at his peak did between those two matches. 1539 points vs 1681. They are both attacking, offensive players so this is a very important stat.
2. Trump scored 7 centuries, Ronnie only scored 2.
3. Higgins was a better opponent. Higgins scored 1050 points vs Hendry's 514. Which leads to point #4
4. Higgins scored 4 century breaks and 8 50+ breaks, Hendry only scored 3 50+ breaks and no centuries. Tying back to better opponent.

See?

So, I take it you are comparing the Judd final to the Ronnie vs Hendry semi? Out of interest, why did you pick that one match?

What do you mean? Didn't you pick the Ronnie vs Hendry semi to show that was Ronnie's peak? How else am I meant to compare peak play? It has to be against your point of reference lol

GeF wrote:I dislike discussion like this one.

Who is better, Owens, Lewis, Bolt ?
Who is the GOAT ?
Is Federer peak > Laver peak ?

All this is subjective.

There is only one thing objective : Judd faces his peak while Ronnie's peak is behind him.

Agreed.

Ronnie, despite still being very good, is past his peak. Judd has matured this season and is coming into his. These two facts aren't really anything to do with each other.

Despite not being a massive Judd fan, I was glad he finally came of age. I'd love a 29 year old player to start bossing some the oldies out of the game. I wish a few 21 year old players would start doing it too. It's far too much of an old man's game these days.

Claiming that this proves Ronnie is scared of Judd is silly. Or saying one match that Judd played in proves his peak is better than Ronnie's peak is hyperbole.

Ace wrote:What do you mean? Didn't you pick the Ronnie vs Hendry semi to show that was Ronnie's peak? How else am I meant to compare peak play? It has to be against your point of reference lol

I didn't specify any match. I said pretty much any match Ronnie played at the 2004 World Championship. So was curious why you picked the Hendry match particularly.

Out of interest, were you watching snooker at the time? No judgement, I'm just curious to how new a fan you are.

SnookerFan wrote:

Ace wrote:What do you mean? Didn't you pick the Ronnie vs Hendry semi to show that was Ronnie's peak? How else am I meant to compare peak play? It has to be against your point of reference lol

I didn't specify any match. I said pretty much any match Ronnie played at the 2004 World Championship. So was curious why you picked the Hendry match particularly.

Out of interest, were you watching snooker at the time? No judgement, I'm just curious to how new a fan you are.

That was his best level of play in the tournament, in the SF though. This is what I mean, you're struggling to find a MATCH with Ronnie's peak that you think can be compareable to Judd's aren't you? Dude, why don't you just admit Judd's peak is better than Ronnie's if you weren't thinking of the 2004 Ronnie/Hendry SF lol come on, stop struggling so hard.

Yes I was. At the time that was the best Ronnie I had ever seen and even better play than Hendry in his Hendry. Hendry in his prime could never destroy Ronnie who hadn't reached his prime 17-4 while Ronnie could, even though Hendry wasn't in his prime but was still a good player across the tour. That's very telling.

Ronnie was the best player I'd ever seen and that was with Judd playing through 2011-2018, UNTIL.

2019 World Championship final.

Player A has beaten Player B in 4 of their last 6 matches, including their most recent match.

Is Player A "scared" of Player B...?

Why am I the only Trump fan here? I need my own crew.

I am going to buy a blu ray dvd of the World 2019 final. The match where it took the sport to a new level. I can show it to my grandkids in the future and say "look, I was there when Snooker was at its highest level, here you go"