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Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Johnny Bravo

SnookerFan wrote:Article here, about this subject. (Well, I say article it's more of an interview with Steve Davis.)

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article ... vious-eras

Agree? Disagree?


He is right, in depth snooker now is played to a higher level than ever before.
However, if we are assessing the top players, the standard is roughly the same as it was from 97 to around 2004/2005. The class of 92 was dominating back then, with Willo and ROS winning 2 WC's and Higgo 1.
I don't think they are better potters and breakbuilders than back then, but I think they are a lot more experienced and can handle the pressure a lot better, ROS in particular.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby vodkadiet

More rubbish from Davis.

This is why there are geriatric winners of events left, right and centre.

Table conditions have changed immeasurably and it is much easier for players to make breaks today. Huge pockets, balls splitting at a touch, thinner cloths making it easy to manoeuvre the cue ball around.

Most of today's players are simply awful in comparison with the 90s.

There is no mental fortitude shown. No tactical knowledge. No ability to fight.

The whole thing is a shambles.

Williams of 1999 would thrash today's Williams , as would the highs of 98 thrash today's Higgins.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Pink Ball

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I was thinking the standard must be higher now because of more centuries etc, but Vodka makes a fair point. The comparison is invalid if conditions are different

Yes, he is right on that. Conditions are constantly easing up. I take today's century tallies with more than a pinch of salt. You only need to look at the age profile of the top players to see the standard hasn't improved in quite a few years.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Pink Ball

Put it this way... If we're to believe the century stats, players are getting better at breakbuilding with age. Do you really believe they are getting better? Do you really believe that some of those players who are years past what should be their prime, making more centuries than ever, are actually improving in terms of breakbuilding?

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Pink Ball wrote:Put it this way... If we're to believe the century stats, players are getting better at breakbuilding with age. Do you really believe they are getting better? Do you really believe that some of those players who are years past what should be their prime, making more centuries than ever, are actually improving in terms of breakbuilding?

No probably not, that's why I think VD makes a good point.

If you look at this season's century stats, it corroborates what you say.

https://cuetracker.net/statistics/centu ... ade/season

The first young player is Yan at number 23.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Pink Ball

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Put it this way... If we're to believe the century stats, players are getting better at breakbuilding with age. Do you really believe they are getting better? Do you really believe that some of those players who are years past what should be their prime, making more centuries than ever, are actually improving in terms of breakbuilding?

No probably not, that's why I think VD makes a good point.

If you look at this season's century stats, it corroborates what you say.

https://cuetracker.net/statistics/centu ... ade/season

The first young player is Yan at number 23.

And to be fair to Yan, 23rd is pretty good given his very young age. I genuinely rate him. Haven't been able to say that about a player of his age in a long, long time.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby vodkadiet

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Put it this way... If we're to believe the century stats, players are getting better at breakbuilding with age. Do you really believe they are getting better? Do you really believe that some of those players who are years past what should be their prime, making more centuries than ever, are actually improving in terms of breakbuilding?

No probably not, that's why I think VD makes a good point.

If you look at this season's century stats, it corroborates what you say.

https://cuetracker.net/statistics/centu ... ade/season

The first young player is Yan at number 23.


Badsnookerplayer is a very unbiased poster as far as I can gather. And he knows his snooker.

I believe the decline in the standard of snooker is connected in no uncertain terms with the advent of the technological age. The young players today have no attention span. Society is all about 'now'. There are far too many distractions for the younger players.

Human beings have lost the capacity to concentrate on one thing, and one thing alone!

There could be a new 'Hendry' out there. But they will need to be very focussed and also have the natural ability, and the mental strength of 'The Greatest'.

As much as I wasn't a fan of Hendry, he was the by far the greatest snooker player I have been priveleged to witness in action.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Pink Ball

The century stat is a big one pulled out at the Crucible, as if to say, "Look at how much the standard has improved from even ten years ago". The changes to conditions are subtle year on year, so you don't notice them. Everyone noticed the 2009 tables because they were so different to the ones used the previous year and, lo and behold, the century record was smashed to smithereens.

Tables are constantly getting easier and easier to play on. And, while that previous 2009 record of 83 has since been beaten several times, it's never been by much. The standard hasn't been improving.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby vodkadiet

Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, I definitely agree the technological age has a big part to play, because what's happening in snooker is happening in many sports.


Pink Ball; we are old enough to know a life where people 'had to think and contemplate.'

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Pink Ball

vodkadiet wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, I definitely agree the technological age has a big part to play, because what's happening in snooker is happening in many sports.


Pink Ball; we are old enough to know a life where people 'had to think and contemplate.'

Aye, my old mucker. Many things have changed for the better; others, very much for worse.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby vodkadiet

Pink Ball wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, I definitely agree the technological age has a big part to play, because what's happening in snooker is happening in many sports.


Pink Ball; we are old enough to know a life where people 'had to think and contemplate.'

Aye, my old mucker. Many things have changed for the better; others, very much for worse.


And on that note, I am changing my walk on music.

This is the my current walk on music...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKhN1t_7PEY

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:Put it this way... If we're to believe the century stats, players are getting better at breakbuilding with age. Do you really believe they are getting better? Do you really believe that some of those players who are years past what should be their prime, making more centuries than ever, are actually improving in terms of breakbuilding?

I could actually buy that because they would learn the best way to breakbuild from experience.

I don't think the standard of snooker has improved though, since I've been watching. Potting, yes. Snooker as a whole, no.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Truth

Using age as a gauge for the decline in standard of snooker is as erroneous as using century tallies solely to show snooker has improved. That no one has won Wimbledon or the Olympics 100m at age 43 is not relevant in the context of snooker. In athletic sports it's the decline in speed, stamina and lingering injury issues that ends the person's career.

Hendry and Davis began their decline (in age terms) at about the time Selby reached his prime, but they obviously didn't get worse because they were beneath their peak fitness (which was probably fairly average in any case). Lack of motivating ambitions and the inability to put the required hours into practicing were almost certainly amongst the main factors that caused the Hendry and Davis descent. These days players are forced to remain focused through competing in a very busy snooker calendar. Also, O'Sullivan has always been overshadowed by Hendry's records, and Higgins/Williams could still move further up the GOAT ranks, so there is still a motivating factor for them. Basically, O'Sullivan, Higgins and Williams are superior to the 42/43 year old players of the past.

Re: Snooker "Now played to a higher standard".

Postby Johnny Bravo

Truth wrote:Using age as a gauge for the decline in standard of snooker is as erroneous as using century tallies solely to show snooker has improved. That no one has won Wimbledon or the Olympics 100m at age 43 is not relevant in the context of snooker. In athletic sports it's the decline in speed, stamina and lingering injury issues that ends the person's career.

Hendry and Davis began their decline (in age terms) at about the time Selby reached his prime, but they obviously didn't get worse because they were beneath their peak fitness (which was probably fairly average in any case). Lack of motivating ambitions and the inability to put the required hours into practicing were almost certainly amongst the main factors that caused the Hendry and Davis descent. These days players are forced to remain focused through competing in a very busy snooker calendar. Also, O'Sullivan has always been overshadowed by Hendry's records, and Higgins/Williams could still move further up the GOAT ranks, so there is still a motivating factor for them. Basically, O'Sullivan, Higgins and Williams are superior to the 42/43 year old players of the past.


<ok> :goodpost:


   

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