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A crisis of confidence

Postby Witz78

Basically my form and game has slumped badly since i purchased an expensive John Parris cue at the Crucible in April.

I bought it thinking it would improve my game but ive just not adjusted to it at all and dont feel comfortable using it the way i did with my old cue which just flowed through my arms.

I dont know whether ive put pressure on myself by spending 400quid on a cue that i expect that i should get instant results, or that im expecting the cue to do the hard work rather than me but its really frustrating.

I bought it and saw it an investment as i play for money a few times a month but my game has reached an all time low ever since.

Whether playing snooker (or pool ) ive always been a confident player and far better when playing at a quick pace and naturally without letting self doubt etc creep in, but my cue woes have entered my head whenever i play now, to such an extent im convincing myself im going to miss before i play relatviely easy shots.

Im on the verge of reverting back to using my old cue, but part of me feels i should persevere with my Parris cue as it may just be coincidental that ive suffered a form slump. :huh2:

Anyone got any advice or suffered similar woes?

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Rocket_ron

Witz, I know exactly how you feel

i used to have a £30 Ronnie o'Sullivan signed BCE cue and i thought if i get a proper cue i would play better.
Although i didn't spent the amount you have i did buy a personalised hand made cue from "Craftsman Cues" in leeds and to this day i still cant play as good as i did with the £30 BCE cue.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "I dont know whether ive put pressure on myself by spending 400quid on a cue that i expect that i should get instant results" the reason i say this is because thats what i expected also

R-ron <ok>

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Noel

Witz78 wrote:Anyone got any advice or suffered similar woes?


Image

Like money, that Parris cue is just a millstone around your neck my friend.
I can help... will PM you my postal address.


=o)

Noel

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Smart

Witz78 wrote:Basically my form and game has slumped badly since i purchased an expensive John Parris cue at the Crucible in April.

I bought it thinking it would improve my game but ive just not adjusted to it at all and dont feel comfortable using it the way i did with my old cue which just flowed through my arms.

I dont know whether ive put pressure on myself by spending 400quid on a cue that i expect that i should get instant results, or that im expecting the cue to do the hard work rather than me but its really frustrating.

I bought it and saw it an investment as i play for money a few times a month but my game has reached an all time low ever since.

Whether playing snooker (or pool ) ive always been a confident player and far better when playing at a quick pace and naturally without letting self doubt etc creep in, but my cue woes have entered my head whenever i play now, to such an extent im convincing myself im going to miss before i play relatviely easy shots.

Im on the verge of reverting back to using my old cue, but part of me feels i should persevere with my Parris cue as it may just be coincidental that ive suffered a form slump. :huh2:

Anyone got any advice or suffered similar woes?


Witz

I have recently changed darts - and its a similar scenario........ can I suggest you practice alone with the new cue. Don't just be turning up to matches expecting to play as you did before.

The cue needs to be as one with you, and the feel you need to obtain is not gonna happen "just like that". If after a few weeks of proper practice you cannot make it work - then revert to the old cue.

It could be that you and the new cue just aren't made for each other - i.e. it feels wrong, or just aint for you.

Good luck :wave:

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Rocket_ron

Noel wrote:
Witz78 wrote:Anyone got any advice or suffered similar woes?


Image

Like money, that Parris cue is just a millstone around your neck my friend.
I can help... will PM you my postal address.


=o)

Noel

Absolute Brilliance Noel <ok> you are fast becoming the most popular poster on here <cool>
"Give me all your money and i will suffer for you" absolute class :D

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Witz78

Perhaps my biggest problem was over confidence and arrogance. The first tournament i turned up for after it i was in confident mode after beating 2 lesser opponents 4-0 and seemingly bedding the cue in. I proclaimed it THE WAND and felt i would be able to do no wrong with it.

I can barely string more than 3 or 4 pots together with the damn piece of wood now though <doh>

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Cheesyman99

I think it will take a while adjusting if you used your old cue for a long time. Just keep practicing with the new one and it will all start to click eventually and you may perform better with that cue eventually.

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Rocket_ron

StalinESQ wrote:
Witz78 wrote:
I can barely string more than 3 or 4 pots together with the damn piece of wood now though <doh>


You should play Sonny - would be a pretty even match-up :redneck:

<laugh> :evilgrin: :wave:

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Witz78

StalinESQ wrote:
Witz78 wrote:
I can barely string more than 3 or 4 pots together with the damn piece of wood now though <doh>


You should play Sonny - would be a pretty even match-up :redneck:


nah i always drink when i play so hed maybe be on the end of a Hurricane style rant from me :rude: :bang2:

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Rocket_ron

Witz78 wrote:
StalinESQ wrote:
Witz78 wrote:
I can barely string more than 3 or 4 pots together with the damn piece of wood now though <doh>


You should play Sonny - would be a pretty even match-up :redneck:


nah i always drink when i play so hed maybe be on the end of a Hurricane style rant from me :rude: :bang2:

:jerry: :jerry: :angry: :gun:

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Noel

We can all agree Snooker is a "mental" game.
A sport that drives normal human beings like us crazy.
Not as nuts as Alex or Ronnie or other people who play like we only wish we could.... but at least "loopy".
Let me digress a moment... my Dad, God rest his glorious soul, quit smoking at age 80 because he forgot he smoked. He simply forgot.
rubbish... what I was getting at?... oh well, you must submit to the stick .
It will show you how it needs to be moved in space and how it must enforce it's will on the cueball.
You must be an attentive delivery agent for your new cue, and it will school you.
Once you master that and can do with it want you want without thought... your John Parris with be your lovely lady.

You will attain enlightenment. No rubbish.

=o)

Noel

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Rocket_ron

Noel wrote:We can all agree Snooker is a "mental" game.
A sport that drives normal human beings like us crazy.
Not as nuts as Alex or Ronnie or other people who play like we only wish we could.... but at least "loopy".
Let me digress a moment... my Dad, God rest his glorious soul, quit smoking at age 80 because he forgot he smoked. He simply forgot.
poo... what I was getting at?... oh well, you must submit to the stick .
It will show you how it needs to be moved in space and how it must enforce it's will on the cueball.
You must be an attentive delivery agent for your new cue, and it will school you.
Once you master that and can do with it want you want without thought... your John Parris with be your lovely lady.

You will attain enlightenment. No poo.

=o)

Noel


you must be older than 40 then noel, clue there was you dads age

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Roland

<doh> @ rocket


I got my cue from Craftsman Cues and I went into the shop and tried out all the cues I liked the look of and narrowed it down. Two of the last 3 were identical, which is when I knew I had my new cue. I just picked the one with the nicer grain. And it was £60 and came with an extension. I was prepared to pay up to £150.

One thing is for sure, if you've got the wrong weight then you'll never get used to it. I tried out a heavier cue once because it was easier to hold a straight line on a slower shot but I lost the feel I got from a lighter cue and my game suffered. As soon as I picked up a lighter cue again I felt the difference immediately as I could feel the shot I was playing rather than judging the shot and for me that made a massive difference.

I'm talking the difference between 18oz and 21oz here by the way.

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:<doh> @ rocket


I got my cue from Craftsman Cues and I went into the shop and tried out all the cues I liked the look of and narrowed it down. Two of the last 3 were identical, which is when I knew I had my new cue. I just picked the one with the nicer grain. And it was £60 and came with an extension. I was prepared to pay up to £150.

One thing is for sure, if you've got the wrong weight then you'll never get used to it. I tried out a heavier cue once because it was easier to hold a straight line on a slower shot but I lost the feel I got from a lighter cue and my game suffered. As soon as I picked up a lighter cue again I felt the difference immediately as I could feel the shot I was playing rather than judging the shot and for me that made a massive difference.

I'm talking the difference between 18oz and 21oz here by the way.


your right sonny, its the weight, ive just held my new cue in one hand and my old cue in another hand and the difference in weight is significant. that must be the reason, also a mental thing in my head too is the appearance, ever since i was about 5 years old ive always prefered cues that have the black V style marking on them. Whenever im playing pool in a pub its always that cue ill go for, not one of the brown ones. My old cue was this exact black V pattern but my new ones, though a V isnt black, its brown.

A simple thing like that could also be a factor

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Noel

[quote="rocket_ron

you must be older than 40 then noel, clue there was you dads age[/quote]


There are clues everywhere r_r... in my original introductory self-portrait sitting
on the island of snooker balls... count the numbers of black balls...


=o)

Noel

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Sickpotter

Cue cost has little to do with how much you'll like or dislike a cue.

Certainly having a $1000 cue might initially provide you with a sense of confidence but if the hit is too far off what you're used to that feeling will go away pretty quickly. I've spent ridiculous sums on cues and I've never found the price to do anything other than provide a feeling of confidence that you've bought a good cue. Let's face it, just because you don't play well with this cue doesn't mean some else won't. It's still a good cue, just not to your liking.

Hendry is a classic example of how a cue doesn't need to be expensive to allow one to play well, he won the vast majority of his titles using a cue that cost 40 pounds.

This is a little simplistic but I'd break players down into two different kinds of players, those who play by feel and those who play by pace or technique. Perhaps not the best description but it's the best I can come up with to describe how cue selections affect each type.

Feel players need to feel the impact of the tip on the cue ball to know how they've struck a ball. They "feel" the pace/delivery of the cue. If the feel goes off, shots get over hit, under hit, you name it.

Pace/technique players are a more robotic type player where the feel of the impact isn't so important as knowing they've delivered their stroke properly.

In short, feel players are playing by touch and pace players are playing almost purely technique. Most pros are a combination of both but they will lean towards one group or another naturally.

If you're a player that gauges shots based on the speed you deliver the cue (pace player) you can switch from cue to cue with less difficulty than if you're a player who plays by touch. I'm a "feel" player so while I might hit a shot with the same force, deliver the stroke to the same way and have similar backswing/follow through as someone who's not a "feel" player, I need to "feel" the impact a certain way to be confident I've hit the shot right. The feel of the shot more than the technique tells me if I've done it right.

When feel players loose their touch their games go out the window so obviously you need technique to fall back on on the days your touch isn't there. Pace players will tend to be more consistent because they don't rely on feel to produce. As long as their technique remains solid a pace player can play well even when they don't feel like they're playing well.

Feel players have to be much more selective in choosing their cues, specs alone does not make a good cue for a feel player. If you're a feel player you need to hit balls with prospective cues before buying, the feel of the cue is all important, even more than specs.

If you've bought a nice cue that meets all your specs but you're not playing well with it you need to figure out why.

If you're a feel player you might need lots of practice to adjust to the new feel of the cue. If it's too far off what you're used to, the time it takes to adjust to the cue might be quite a while and not worth the effort. As a feel player myself I'm not about to take 6 months to get used to a new feel, I'm going to look for something closer to what I'm used to.

If you're a pace player it's about making alignment adjustments to compensate for different throws from cue to cue.

If I were to decide on one all important factor in choosing a cue it would be the throw. IMO, nothing in the game is harder than knowing how to compensate for the throw of a cue. Trying to adjust this is the hardest part of using a new cue for both feel and technique players so if I had to pick one quality that I look for in every cue it's a similar throw to what I'm used to.

IMO, regardless of what type of player you are, as long as you find a cue with a familiar throw you'll be able to make the change with as little impact to your game/confidence as possible.

Things that will affect the throw are what should be your primary concern when choosing a new cue.

Wood: Ash or maple, maple throws very differently from ash.
Ferrule: Brass or fiber, each have very different throws

Certainly there are other specs that will affect throw but those above are IMO the most important ones.

Boy I hope with all that rambling I actually made some sense :huh2:

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Noel

sickpotter wrote:Cue cost has little to do with how much you'll like or dislike a cue.


All in a very good post sickpotter!
Thank you for it.
I have to disagree with the above though...
Having lost my Mike Wooldridge cue to an unfortunate accident of a person I stupidly lent it to...
and having spent months playing with dozens of of different "house cues" the cues that cost nothing
are worth nothing. They have no weight nor balance nor feedback to the extent that even technique
as you explain so well cannot compensate for the lack of feel.
It's like trying to pound rubber nails into a steel wall with an ice cream cone.


=o\

Noel

On a positive note ... at least I have a good excuse!

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Sickpotter

I'm not saying the cheap ones are going to feel good, the vast majority do not.

All I'm saying is that you CAN find a cue that feels great to you which costs a fraction of what you pay for the high end models.

It's all about what feels right for you and not the price tag. Those crummy house cues might be exactly the feel someone else is used to so they'll be fine for that person. I've found the odd house cue (when I just had to play but didn't have my cue handy) that acutally hit similar to my own and I was able to play fairly decently with them. At the time my cue cost around $500 and the house cues that I picked up cost less than $15. Given some full time dedication I'm sure I could eventually play as well with the cheap cue as I did with the expensive one because the hit was very similar.

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Roland

From that description I'm definitely a feel player then. The reason I went for a heavier cue was deliberate at the time, I was finding the touch shots where you had to play a shot dead weight were letting me down, and when I used a heavier cue these shots became easier because the weight of the cue was easier to keep on a straight line. Where the cue let me down was on spin shots, for example screw back 2 ft for the next shot. Whereas before I could get 2ft +/- 3 inches, with the heavier cue the tolerance went to +/- 2ft or more. When I went back to the lighter cue I could hit the ball and feel the shot a lot better and play on instinct more.

I think ideally I would have 2 cues, my standard cue and one heavier just for those slow dead weight rollers. But of course I would look like a cockerel in constantly switching cues between shots and I would knock my rhythm as well.

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Roland

This is the sort of shot, slow drag with left hand side thin clip on the red to stay on the black. For some reason much easier with the heavier cue. With the light cue the white would go too far into the reds zone or the red would stay in the jaw after I inevitably dogged the shot.

Image

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Sickpotter

Heavier cues do make it easier to keep on line for soft/touch shots but as you noticed, your control can really suffer.

IMO the heavier cue masks a weakness in your stroke or your lack of confidence in the shot. I'd recommend practicing those kinds of shots until you're comfortable playing them with your standard weight cue rather than trying to go heavier to address a relatively minor flaw.

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Roland

That sounds like good advice. It's true, when I come across the sort of shot I play better with a heavier cue, I recognize it when I'm on the shot and usually fluff it because I'm not comfortable with the shot, put in a bad one so to speak. I should practice that type of shot more, you're right.


Thinking about it more, the example above really is a shot I dread. If it was just about potting the red then no problem, it's a sitter. And if there is a path to send the white above the black to take the black in the same pocket then no problem again. And more often than not, if there is a route to get on the blue I will go that way, but sometimes the only shot is to slow drag with check side to hold for the black and main way of missing it is near jaw. If you play plain ball with backspin the white ends up somewhere near the pink leaving a long blue or thin black.

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Noel

sickpotter wrote:I'd recommend practicing those kinds of shots until you're comfortable playing them with your standard weight cue.


Absolutely.
Once you make the pot + shape exactly the way you want, you know you can do it!
So do it again and again until you erase any doubt that you can do that reliably.
May the Fearless be with you Sonny!


=o)

Noel

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Roland

In due course. It depends if you want it interactive or not as to the length of time. At the moment it's a bit fiddly, it's better to make it a bit easier to use so then people will use it instinctively.

Re: A crisis of confidence

Postby Rocket_ron

Sonny wrote:In due course. It depends if you want it interactive or not as to the length of time. At the moment it's a bit fiddly, it's better to make it a bit easier to use so then people will use it instinctively.

<ok>