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NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Monique

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greensl ... hn-higgins?
News of the World hands over 'Higgins sting' video tapes

The News of the World has handed over to investigators all the video tapes shot during its sting operation on snooker player John Higgins.

I understand that the paper has given its unedited footage to David Douglas, a board member of the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA).

The former Met Police chief superintendent was given the task of investigating accusations made by the paper in May that Higgins had agreed to fix matches in return for a £261,000 bribe.

Douglas has, in turn, passed the video tapes on to Sport Resolutions, the independent dispute resolution service for sport that will judge whether Higgins was at fault.

Higgins and his then business partner, Pat Mooney, have protested that the News of the World entrapped them into making incriminating statements during a visit to Kiev.

They argue they were plied with drink. They have also contested the credibility of tapes that were posted on the paper's website to accompany the story.

The men's lawyers have not had the opportunity to see the tapes. It was claimed in a posting on the sportingintelligence website earlier this week that they refused an offer to receive the tapes in return for agreeing not to take legal action against the News of the World.

However, if that offer was made, it did not come directly from the NoW. The paper issued a statement yesterday categorically denying the claim. It said it had not had any dealings with the lawyers representing Higgins or Mooney about the tapes.

It added: "We stand by our revelations published in May this year and have made all of our evidence available to the authorities."

Until that statement, there had been a growing belief within sporting and journalistic circles that the newspaper was about to back down over its allegations.

That view was fuelled by previous claims on the sportingintelligence site about the authenticity of the tapes. It commissioned forensic tests on the edited footage which suggested that there was substantial manipulation, with over-dubbing, chronological changes and contextual infelicities.

Higgins, who has been suspended from playing snooker by the WPBSA, will not know his fate until a Sports Resolution tribunal hearing, to be chaired by Ian Mill QC, that is set for early September

Both he and Mooney have been told of the charges they will face at the hearing.

A spokesman for Higgins said: "Throughout this process we have avoided being drawn on speculation or conjecture. Given there is a quasi-judicial procedure on going, it would be wrong for us to comment.

"We are completely focused on clearing John's name in relation to the accusations of match fixing."

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Casey

It’s a shame the tapes are not made for public view, so we could all see for sure. This could obviously go either way.

I wonder how much weight sports resolution will put behind Higgins and Mooney being ‘pilled with drink’.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Smart

case_master wrote:It’s a shame the tapes are not made for public view, so we could all see for sure. This could obviously go either way.

I wonder how much weight sports resolution will put behind Higgins and Mooney being ‘plied with drink’.


I would hope very little indeed. If I go and get drunk then take my car on the road and have an accident I cannot say "well I was visiting my parents and they plied me with drink, sorry". These are grown men, with a standing in the game that demands integrity and being straight.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Rocket_ron

StalinESQ wrote:
case_master wrote:It’s a shame the tapes are not made for public view, so we could all see for sure. This could obviously go either way.

I wonder how much weight sports resolution will put behind Higgins and Mooney being ‘plied with drink’.


I would hope very little indeed. If I go and get drunk then take my car on the road and have an accident I cannot say "well I was visiting my parents and they plied me with drink, sorry". These are grown men, with a standing in the game that demands integrity and being straight.

factosmarto <ok>

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Wildey

thetubberlad wrote:Drink? That can't hold up. If I hurt someone when I'm drunk, it doesn't make it acceptable.


your right drink will not be a good enough defense at all....i know we would like to think it was but in the real word sorry to say its not we all do stupid things drunk doesn't make it acceptable.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Tubberlad

Sonny wrote:Drink encourages bravado and we've all done it.

Doesn't make it right. If I hurt a girl on a night out, I wouldn't be able to look at myself, drink or no drink. Drink is not an excuse for wrongdoing. I'm not saying that they've done anything wrong, not for me to say, but it's no defence in the event of wrongdoing.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Rocket_ron

thetubberlad wrote:
Sonny wrote:Drink encourages bravado and we've all done it.

Doesn't make it right. If I hurt a girl on a night out, I wouldn't be able to look at myself, drink or no drink. Drink is not an excuse for wrongdoing. I'm not saying that they've done anything wrong, not for me to say, but it's no defence in the event of wrongdoing.

you seem to feel very strongly about this tubbs?

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Tubberlad

rocket_ron wrote:
thetubberlad wrote:
Sonny wrote:Drink encourages bravado and we've all done it.

Doesn't make it right. If I hurt a girl on a night out, I wouldn't be able to look at myself, drink or no drink. Drink is not an excuse for wrongdoing. I'm not saying that they've done anything wrong, not for me to say, but it's no defence in the event of wrongdoing.

you seem to feel very strongly about this tubbs?

You'd be right. I do feel very strongly about this, as much as Smart does. But I'll keep my mouth shut, don't want to be dragging trouble on myself or the forum.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Rocket_ron

thetubberlad wrote:
rocket_ron wrote:
thetubberlad wrote:
Sonny wrote:Drink encourages bravado and we've all done it.

Doesn't make it right. If I hurt a girl on a night out, I wouldn't be able to look at myself, drink or no drink. Drink is not an excuse for wrongdoing. I'm not saying that they've done anything wrong, not for me to say, but it's no defence in the event of wrongdoing.

you seem to feel very strongly about this tubbs?

You'd be right. I do feel very strongly about this, as much as Smart does. But I'll keep my mouth shut, don't want to be dragging trouble on myself or the forum.

no carry on tubbs, im with you and smart on this. higgins hasn't helped himself one bit

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Wildey

Rocket Ron

theres nothing worst for a sport than what John Higgins is being accused of doing it made me phisically sick on that sunday morning when the news broke and i want that cancer stripped bone by bone out of snooker so flimsy excused sorry do not wash with me either.

it has to be a very good video of total intimidation to come close to be acceptable what was said in kiev.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Roland

My point is hypothetically discussing how it would be possible to lose a frame of snooker is in a different class entirely to doing whatever bad you suggested tubber.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Wildey

and the fact the NOTW Withheld it for so long says theres something there that could make them look bad so thats positive for john.

bottom line john would have sued the NOTW For not showing the tape anyway so they might as well see it and take it from there.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

"NOTW has released the unedited tapes"

No they haven't. David Douglass has to go onto the NOTW site to view them.

There is a queue a mile long wating to find out the Mazher Mahmood fella's identify. No chance of them releasing it. It would take an Act of Parliment to get that released. & even then....& some....

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Noel

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:"NOTW has released the unedited tapes"

No they haven't. David Douglass has to go onto the NOTW site to view them.

There is a queue a mile long wating to find out the Mazher Mahmood fella's identify. No chance of them releasing it. It would take an Act of Parliment to get that released. & even then....& some....



Right on, John...

The "tapes for immunity from being sued" was just bull.
They can be sued for whatever, whenever. But under law I understand they do not have to divulge
their sources if it compromises their integrity (?) of free speech or safety of sources... ie. Mahood.

My guess is that NOTW traded selective access in return for exclusive WPBSA insider access to the BIGGER STORY.
Stay tuned kids.

Higgins, who has been suspended from playing snooker by the WPBSA, will not know his fate until a Sports Resolution tribunal hearing, to be chaired by Ian Mill QC, that is set for early September

Both he and Mooney have been told of the charges they will face at the hearing.


And what are they?!?!


=o\

Noel

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby gallantrabbit

In my view it's a horrible dirty set up by the 'newspaper' and an act of bravado by Higgins. Higgins should be charged with naivety as he actually 'did' nothing wrong, just chucked about a load of hypothetical chat. He's a silly boy, but shouldn't be chucked out of the game for it. Is Jamie Burnett still playing????? And Higgins has been banned... Lunacy. <doh>

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Casey

Awk come on its not as if Higgins is building his whole defense around drink. He is highlighting the situation the journalist were putting him in.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Tubberlad

Sonny wrote:My point is hypothetically discussing how it would be possible to lose a frame of snooker is in a different class entirely to doing whatever bad you suggested tubber.

True, but it's still wrong, just not as bad. I think if a player is guilty of match fixing, they deserve to be punished heavily, and I hate to hear of it going on in any sport. I stress this is my opinion, and we'll have to wait for the findings now. I am not saying Higgins is guilty, this will have to go through the motions...

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Wildey

gallantrabbit wrote:In my view it's a horrible dirty set up by the 'newspaper' and an act of bravado by Higgins. Higgins should be charged with naivety as he actually 'did' nothing wrong, just chucked about a load of hypothetical chat. He's a silly boy, but shouldn't be chucked out of the game for it. Is Jamie Burnett still playing????? And Higgins has been banned... Lunacy. <doh>


all the scenario you painted there chuck him out so long have a nice life....

jamie Burnett has not been seen on video disusing it theres a massive difference.....

it doesn't matter that it never happened who knows maybe NOTW Exposing it stopped it from happening and thats no defense getting caught before you did something wrong.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Tubberlad

gallantrabbit wrote:The Jamie Burnett evidence is uneditable. It's the clearest case ever

Suss? Very much so in my opinion. Do we have proof? Nope, no matter how badly it was missed. He hasn't said: watch as I purposely make a mess of this. Simples.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Wildey

gallantrabbit wrote:The Jamie Burnett evidence is uneditable. It's the clearest case ever


ive seen john higgins missing easy balls than that black ball in fact last season we all saw Ronnie missing a easier black.

balls gets missed thats why 1 player always loses after missing a important pot.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:The Jamie Burnett evidence is uneditable. It's the clearest case ever


ive seen john higgins missing easy balls than that black ball in fact last season we all saw Ronnie missing a easier black.

balls gets missed thats why 1 player always loses after missing a important pot.



at least Ronnie missed his easy black by a matter of millimetres, no excuse though, his attitude sucked that game but dont let that distract you from the bigger picture here, namely Jamie Burnetts miss.

No matter how many times ive watched it it still beggars belief that a professional could miss by so far, he plays it in such a way that he knows what hes doing, hed have been better miscueing it to make it look less suspicious. He plays it so slow and soft that theres no chance of it doing what the pink had done previously and had a chance to fluke into another pocket. You can almost see the look of horror on his face when the pink fluked and he returned to the table with a sitter of a black and was probably thinking "how can i miss this without it looking suss" Im sure he had a kinda guilty, embarrassed but relieved look as he walked back to his seat after missing the black though.

The investigation for this is taking forever isnt it <doh>

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Tubberlad

To be honest Witz, I cannot believe a professional player could miss by that much. It's his look when he flukes the pink though that got me...

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Noel

Witz78 wrote:The investigation for this is taking forever isnt it <doh>


Seems so. Also seems to me like there will be a big all-rolled-into-one stinking ball of hurt hitting in September...
or maybe October... well before 2011 then.


=o(

Noel

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Monique

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/201 ... o-snooker-‘match-fix’-footage-280703/
Newspaper gives WPBSA conditional access to snooker ‘match fix’ footage
By Nick Harris
28 July 2010
In a welcome development in the John Higgins ‘match fix’ case, The Guardian is reporting that the News of the World has now handed over to investigators all the video tapes shot during its sting operation on Higgins and business partner Pat Mooney.
Sportingintelligence cannot independently corroborate that the tapes, unedited or otherwise, have been handed to the snooker authorities. We have asked the News of the World to clarify this issue and will provide updates as they arrive.
But this website understands that the former Met Police chief superintendent, David Douglas, has now indeed had access to footage shot during the NotW investigation, but it is understood that he had conditional access (possibly on NotW premises), meaning he had to agree to some kind of indemnity waiver about the use of the footage.
Douglas has not been able to confirm or deny this for legal reasons. We have asked the News of the World to clarify the situation and are awaiting a response.
What is absolutely certain at the time of writing – at 5pm UK time on Wednesday 28 July – is that neither Higgins nor Mooney have had access to unedited evidence amassed by the paper, and nor have their legal teams.
We reported yesterday that the newspaper requested they agree not to take legal action in return for such access. The paper denies “categorically” that it has had any contact with the legal teams of Higgins or Mooney; we understand the request to agree to indemnity waivers came indirectly via David Douglas. Again, no relevant party will confirm or deny this, despite requests.
Higgins and Mooney face charges of failing to report an approach about match-fixing, of bringing the game into disrepute, and of accepting or pretending to accept a proposition related to gambling on frames.
They face a hearing to be chaired by Ian Mill QC and to be hosted by the independent dispute resolution service, Sport Resolutions (UK), in early September.
Sportingintelligence understands Mill will ask the News of the World for access to evidence for Higgins and Mooney, access so far denied.
If no such access is provided, unconditionally, it could transpire that David Douglas, who was meant to hand over the case to Sport Resolutions to be handled independently, could be asked, effectively, to become the chief prosecution witness, recounting second-hand details of evidence only he has seen first hand.
.


So clearly the claims by Sporting Intelligence the the tapes were not handed were inaccurate. Douglas got them. Alledgedly under conditions. It would be interesting to know which conditions if there are indeed conditions.

Re: NOTW has released the unedited tapes

Postby Witz78

thetubberlad wrote:To be honest Witz, I cannot believe a professional player could miss by that much. It's his look when he flukes the pink though that got me...


Yes im not saying its the easiest pot ever but the only way you see pros miss this type of shot is either by it rattling the jaws when hut with pace, or being slightly undercut or overcut and therefore an edge of it clipping one of the knuckles of the pocket causing it to miss.