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ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Wildey

http://snookerscene.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... e-off.html

Steve Davis was only saying what everyone in the snooker world already knew when he revealed in the Daily Star on Sunday that players have for years bet on themselves to lose and bet on high breaks being beaten.

It's called insurance betting. It also happens to be against the rules.

There was a minor scandal in the 1990s when John Spencer, the then WPBSA chairman, was revealed to have done it.

As Davis says, it doesn't mean players were trying to lose. They were just covering themselves against defeat.

Nevertheless, it remains a shady practice open to misinterpretation and Barry Hearn quite rightly wants it stamped out.

Hearn has raised prize money on the circuit by £1m. There is now an opportunity to play more and earn more money.

Players unable to make a living from the game should get another job, not top up their incomes with money won from bookies through losing.

It does not do anything for snooker's image to have players found to be indulging in side bets on their matches - even though most of it has been done in all innocence.

In the last few years a culture has grown up in which a blind eye has been turned to all this. It started when the round robins were introduced for the Grand Prix - something bookies hated - and has ended with the world no.1 being suspended.

Players need to realise that the sport now largely depends on the financial support of the betting industry - just as it once did on tobacco companies.

It does nothing for snooker's prospects to have players dragged into stories about betting.

I know some people find the involvement of betting companies distasteful and would argue it encourages a culture of gambling. Perhaps it's therefore hypocritical to try and clobber players for betting.

Well, the game has been so badly run in the past that snooker has few other options right now.

And the fact is, snooker is one of the most honest sports out there. Players routinely own up to fouls - and not just on TV - and generally maintain an etiquette that has existed for over a century.

As in any sport there are rotten apples - and they must be dealt with.

This is why the culture of small scale betting that goes on behind the scenes has to stop.

Like so many other areas of our sport, the old way of doing things has to change.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Wildey

insurance betting against someone beating your high break is insurance.

however covering yourself against losing is corruption because losing is something you can do and its in your hands.

it needs to stop and stopped yesterday its distasteful and it makes me feel sick.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Noel

From Snooker Scene Blog...

Noel said...

With betting sponsorships in hand and an entertainment impressario in charge and
players willing to play their tune...
Snooker could become the WWF of cuesports.
Wonderful.



=o(

Noel

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Bourne

I get why they do it, pro gamblers are doing it all the time and it works in the long run, but I agree with wild it's hugely immoral. Players should be playing the sport with the will to win for the feeling of glory, not because of the money. Hopefully we'll get to a stage soon where players are able to earn a healhty living the whole year round so they won't have to think about this insurance betting because I also get why players have to put food on the table.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

Patsy Fagan is the new President of the SPA? Is that right? :chin:

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Roland

Apparently so.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:I get why they do it, pro gamblers are doing it all the time and it works in the long run, but I agree with wild it's hugely immoral. Players should be playing the sport with the will to win for the feeling of glory, not because of the money. Hopefully we'll get to a stage soon where players are able to earn a healhty living the whole year round so they won't have to think about this insurance betting because I also get why players have to put food on the table.


you a kid you see a snooker table and you get hooked on it beating ur brother ur friends even your father that feeling you get when that ball cracks against the leather.. ive not had that feeling often because im crap in a word but its a real buzz when i here that even on a pool table ....where is that inocent lost that players be all and end all is money....i know they got a living to earn but surely nobody came in to snooker for cash a supermarket would pay say michael white more than he will earn this season so are we saying the only reason these young players coming in to snooker so they can make money by losing ? :?

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:
Bourne wrote:I get why they do it, pro gamblers are doing it all the time and it works in the long run, but I agree with wild it's hugely immoral. Players should be playing the sport with the will to win for the feeling of glory, not because of the money. Hopefully we'll get to a stage soon where players are able to earn a healhty living the whole year round so they won't have to think about this insurance betting because I also get why players have to put food on the table.


you a kid you see a snooker table and you get hooked on it beating ur brother ur friends even your father that feeling you get when that ball cracks against the leather.. ive not had that feeling often because im crap in a word but its a real buzz when i here that even on a pool table ....where is that inocent lost that players be all and end all is money....i know they got a living to earn but surely nobody came in to snooker for cash a supermarket would pay say michael white more than he will earn this season so are we saying the only reason these young players coming in to snooker so they can make money by losing ? :?


I think as Bourne says, with the limited money and opportunities in the game recently the lower ranked players have been left with little choice to insure themselves to guarantee a certain return whatever the outcome of their match. However now the need for this will hopefully end.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Noel

wildJONESEYE wrote:you a kid you see a snooker table and you get hooked on it beating ur brother ur friends even your father that feeling you get when that ball cracks against the leather...its a real buzz when i here that even on a pool table ....where is that inocent lost that players be all and end all is money


Totally agree wild.
It started that way and it will no doubt finish that way for me.
It was love at first strike and that continues to this day, and has me trying to practice and play at least an hour a day.
Although, I must confess to a number of lapsed years in my fidelity to snooker [ birth and care of my dear children ],
all in, money had zero to do with my reason for playing. I expect that it's true of all people who do anything well...
obsession first, money second... if ever. It's called "heart".
When have you ever heard anyone say "Wow, that kid just played his money out!" ?



=o\

Noel

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby N_Castle07

My brother works in Scotland and he told me that the press ran a story about John Higgins going to a local charity football match. In the story it claimed that Higgins made a joke about the NotW sting and it was reported that the joke was in very bad taste. Does anybody know any more about this?

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Madz

StalinESQ wrote:
JohnFromLondonTown wrote:Patsy Fagan is the new President of the SPA? Is that right? :chin:


Is there a new president of the Jacquizzi too...................... <laugh>


that would be ja ;)

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby N_Castle07

N_Castle07 wrote:My brother works in Scotland and he told me that the press ran a story about John Higgins going to a local charity football match. In the story it claimed that Higgins made a joke about the NotW sting and it was reported that the joke was in very bad taste. Does anybody know any more about this?



I've found it here it is for anyone who hasn't read it yet.

SHAMED snooker star John Higgins shocked an awards bash by telling JOKES about his alleged match-fixing scandal, it was revealed last night.
Under-fire Higgins, 35 - who was dishing out gongs to an under-10s footie team - said: "Someone probably made a bet that I wouldn't show up."

And he even poked fun at claims he tried to place a wager on himself to LOSE last year's world final.

Higgins made the quips as he hosted an awards ceremony for East End Thistle FC in Hamilton.

The three-time world champ stepped in last month when the original guests of honour pulled out of the event.

Team coach Alex Kerr said: "I wasn't sure how to introduce him and when I said to him, 'Are you the world No1?' he said, 'Well I still am just now'.

"When we told him that we might send some of the photos to the papers he just laughed and said, 'Aye, they might take them, nobody's got me for anything yet'. It was good to hear him coming out with a few funnies - he was in really good form considering.

"Nobody asked him about his problems, he just volunteered it."

It was the first time Higgins, of Bothwell, has been seen in public since son Pierce's first communion in May.

He faces an inquiry after being secretly filmed at a meeting in Ukrainian capital Kiev allegedly agreeing to lose frames in four matches for £261,000.

Findings of a probe by snooker chiefs are with an independent tribunal.

A spokesman for Higgins said: "He was happy to help. He continues to co-operate with snooker's governing body."



Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepag ... z0u7cgtIFu

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Casey

I'm glad John is getting out and about :)

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Roland

Great to hear Higgins is laughing it off. And hopefully he'll be returned to his rightful position as World number 1 as soon as this sorry episode is put to bed.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Noel

Madz wrote:
StalinESQ wrote:
JohnFromLondonTown wrote:Patsy Fagan is the new President of the SPA? Is that right? :chin:


Is there a new president of the Jacquizzi too...................... <laugh>


that would be ja ;)


Ha!


=o)

Noel

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby N_Castle07

Sonny wrote:Great to hear Higgins is laughing it off. And hopefully he'll be returned to his rightful position as World number 1 as soon as this sorry episode is put to bed.


Absolutely and just read the headline
SHAMED snooker star John Higgins shocked an awards bash by telling JOKES about his alleged match-fixing scandal
and then you read the full story and all he done was say a little joke.

John Higgins :)

Brittish Media :bird: :bird: :bird:

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Roland

The Sun and NOTW :bird: :bird: :bird:

And people who believe them <doh> <doh> <doh>

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Noel

Sonny wrote:Great to hear Higgins is laughing it off. And hopefully he'll be returned to his rightful position as World number 1 as soon as this sorry episode is put to bed.



Sonny...

It's good he can convert his tears to laughter.
Higgins was picked up by the scruff and dropped like a ferret into the deep end of a frigid cesspool.
He is only now acclimatizing to it ... trial by fire and water time or maybe not?


Frank Zappa wrote:It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia.


That I share your hopes for John and his future makes the awful reality all the more difficult to bear.

Keep the faith bro!


=o|

Noel

PS... where did my "Higgins - Deadline" post disappear to...?
Last edited by Noel on 19 Jul 2010, edited 1 time in total.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Wildey

laughing it off says he is innocent ???

or

thinking hes above the rules because hes Higgins ???

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:The Sun and NOTW :bird: :bird: :bird:

And people who believe them <doh> <doh> <doh>


mate it has nothing to do with papers no more they have done their worst either exposed a crooked player or framed him ?

if they exposed it thats to snookers benefit if they framed him thats the NOTW Exposed as dodgy either way snooker wins....

or would it have been better for everyone to carry on match fixing if that goes on ????

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Noel

To carry on with wild's point...

John got caught in Pandora's Box Affair.

[ Pandora's Box is an artifact in Greek mythology.
The "box" was actually a large jar (πιθος pithos) given to Pandora (Πανδώρα) ("all-gifted"),
which contained all the evils of the world. When Pandora opened the jar, the entire contents of the jar were released,
but for one – hope
]

But... we still have hope!

All things considered, don't we all want to see Snooker do more than just "survive" [ this scandal ] ?
Let's hope for whatever outcome will allow our sport to honestly "thrive"!



=o|

Noel

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

Snooker & Gambling have always gone hand in hand. I remember well, that when Jimmy White turned Pro every time he played John Spencer they always played for a 1'er on the side, be it a WC qualifier or whatever.

Snooker has been trying to change its image for years, yet, by only announcing something like this now, shows how much they tried & can be taken as a reflection on the competence of the people that looked into the game. They just skimmed over the top, that type of thing.

I'll be back playing in a couple of weeks & its a dot on the card that every frame I play, will be either for money, be it best of 5's, for the lights, whatever, money will be involved.

Only a month ago we had an ex World Champ in our Club, still on the Tour, taking on all comers & would only play for a minimum of €250 per frame. Then played high stakes Poker all night when the Snooker finished.
Its not the players fault. If there are opportunities to earn an extra few quid, while struggling to make a living at their chosen profession, & not breaking any rules while doing so, why shouldn't they?

There has always been ambiguity in our game when it comes to gambling. Now, hopefully, the rules are clear & anyone who steps outside them rules can expect to be punished.

As for the John Higgins saga, anyone who knows the Man will also know that he's no crook. He has been an asset for our game & we should wait until the findings are released before passing judgement on the man or casting aspersions on his character. He makes jokes because he's a good humoured guy. My mind is still open on this.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Noel

John, I heartily agree with your post, in particular the following:

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:If there are opportunities to earn an extra few quid, while struggling to make a living at their chosen profession,
& not breaking any rules while doing so, why shouldn't they?
Now, hopefully, the rules are clear & anyone who steps outside them rules can expect to be punished.
My mind is still open on this.



Cheers.


=o)

Noel

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Wildey

rules will be you bet on snooker so long have a nice life stacking shelfs in tesco <ok>

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Bourne

He'd earn enough on the exho circuit.

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Noel

On the subject of "insurance bets"...

Anyone know if this is done or has been an issue in other sports like... say... golf or tennis or in games like darts?


=o)

Noel

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:He'd earn enough on the exho circuit.


who the hell would promote their club with a scummy parakeet ????

Re: ALL BETS ARE OFF

Postby Bourne

A three time World champion, number one in the world, won everything he could have won in a tough era ... he's still a legend and fans know that.