Dafabet Masters Round 1 : Ding Junhui v Joe Perry !

Skullman wrote:And Perry closes with his second century and the 17th of the Masters overall.

Just for reference, there were 16 centuries in all of last year's tournament.

I don't come on here much who do you have as winner??

I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Ding won 5 ranking titles last season, now I wouldn't be surprised if he ends this season without winning a single meaningful title.

Just look at some of the defeats he suffered recently:

0-5 Oliver Brown Wuxi Classic last 128
5-6 Wang Zepeng IC last 128
5-6 James Cahill UK last 32

And now he lost to Joe Perry who never won a match before at the Masters!

Skullman wrote:I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Allen won't win it

Skullman wrote:I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Ronnies game atm is a little bit comparable to Higgins' in 2011. He's not playing brillantly but he still manages to make the important clearances and withstand the key situations to win at the end. But it's not his natural game, so I don't think, it's good for him (in the long run) to keep playing like that.

He's a heavy scorer, that's how he plays the game and that's how the won the far majority of his tournaments.

Didn't have the chance to watch a single shot of the match, but I can say...

YES!

Joe Perry, you are the man!

Snooker Overdrive wrote:Ding won 5 ranking titles last season, now I wouldn't be surprised if he ends this season without winning a single meaningful title.

Just look at some of the defeats he suffered recently:

0-5 Oliver Brown Wuxi Classic last 128
5-6 Wang Zepeng IC last 128
5-6 James Cahill UK last 32

And now he lost to Joe Perry who never won a match before at the Masters!

Yes those are players he should never lose to, nevermind 4 times now this season, Perry is no mug of course but still Ding was poor to say the least.

I still think though its way too early to say he wont win anything this season, he can easily turn it around and who knows he might well defend one of his titles next, either the German Masters or China Open, I wouldnt be surprised if he suddenly found some form.

Atm though he's playing like a player out of Top 16, and that aint good enough for his class.

Perry did well though to make the most of his chances, first win here in so many appearances.

TheRocket wrote:

Skullman wrote:I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Ronnies game atm is a little bit comparable to Higgins' in 2011. He's not playing brillantly but he still manages to make the important clearances and withstand the key situations to win at the end. But it's not his natural game, so I don't think, it's good for him to keep playing like that.

He's a heavy scorer, that's how he plays the game and that's how the won the far majority of his tournaments.

Not quite!

I agree that his UK win was very Higgins '11 like but let's not forget that he played his very best just a couple of weeks earlier at the CoC. His A-game hasn't vanished, the difference nowadays is that he has a great plan B. Ronnie wouldn't have won the UK 10 years ago the way he played in December.

He has turned into the ultimate competitor who can win any tournament he enters no matter how well he's playing.

TheRocket wrote:

Skullman wrote:I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Ronnies game atm is a little bit comparable to Higgins' in 2011. He's not playing brillantly but he still manages to make the important clearances and withstand the key situations to win at the end. But it's not his natural game, so I don't think, it's good for him (in the long run) to keep playing like that.

He's a heavy scorer, that's how he plays the game and that's how the won the far majority of his tournaments.

Yes good comparison, as long as he's still winning mathes and tournaments I dont care how he plays, but obviosuly playing his natural attacking and flair game would help matters.

This result isn't unusual, even last season he was the same in the triple crown events. In fact, I would hazard a guess - without having the exact stats in from of me - that Ding Junhui USUALLY loses first televised round these days, taking the last three years in all triple crown events as "these days". So a first round loss for Ding was statistically expected.

Andre147 wrote:

TheRocket wrote:

Skullman wrote:I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Ronnies game atm is a little bit comparable to Higgins' in 2011. He's not playing brillantly but he still manages to make the important clearances and withstand the key situations to win at the end. But it's not his natural game, so I don't think, it's good for him (in the long run) to keep playing like that.

He's a heavy scorer, that's how he plays the game and that's how the won the far majority of his tournaments.

Yes good comparison, as long as he's still winning mathes and tournaments I dont care how he plays, but obviosuly playing his natural attacking and flair game would help matters.

Never count O'Sullivan out but I honestly had him losing early and Trump tripping up a bit later. I just wish some new bucks would come along and take over from these guys and make betting a bit more interesting

It's just extraordinary that Ding hasn't won a match at the Masters since lifting the title in 2011.

Andy Spark wrote:This result isn't unusual, even last season he was the same in the triple crown events. In fact, I would hazard a guess - without having the exact stats in from of me - that Ding Junhui USUALLY loses first televised round these days, taking the last three years in all triple crown events as "these days". So a first round loss for Ding was statistically expected.

Totally expected sadly. Never would I put my house on Ding to win anything

Andy Spark wrote:This result isn't unusual, even last season he was the same in the triple crown events. In fact, I would hazard a guess - without having the exact stats in from of me - that Ding Junhui USUALLY loses first televised round these days, taking the last three years in all triple crown events as "these days". So a first round loss for Ding was statistically expected.

It's funny because prior to last season Ding often did very well in the UK events, winning 2 UKs, one Masters for instance. Since he won the Shanghai Masters last season all that changed and he now performs well in China and pretty poor in UK. He even got to the semis in Shanghai this season, his only good result so far apart from an Asian PTC win.

Snooker Overdrive wrote:

TheRocket wrote:

Skullman wrote:I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Ronnies game atm is a little bit comparable to Higgins' in 2011. He's not playing brillantly but he still manages to make the important clearances and withstand the key situations to win at the end. But it's not his natural game, so I don't think, it's good for him to keep playing like that.

He's a heavy scorer, that's how he plays the game and that's how the won the far majority of his tournaments.

Not quite!

I agree that his UK win was very Higgins '11 like but let's not forget that he played his very best just a couple of weeks earlier at the CoC. His A-game hasn't vanished, the difference nowadays is that he has a great plan B. Ronnie wouldn't have won the UK 10 years ago the way he played in December.

He has turned into the ultimate competitor who can win any tournament he enters no matter how well he's playing.

I just think, to win the WC he really has to play his natural game, especially when he gets a bad draw. As good as a competitor he's, but if it's not your natural game , it will be not easy to keep winning matches like that over such a long distance. It will take a lot out of him. I've never seen Ronnie so powerless like after that UK final.

He's just not used, playing matches like that all the time and you can't blame him. Because most of the time, when he wins a major, he just demolishes his opponents with his heavy scoring.

Andre147 wrote:

Andy Spark wrote:This result isn't unusual, even last season he was the same in the triple crown events. In fact, I would hazard a guess - without having the exact stats in from of me - that Ding Junhui USUALLY loses first televised round these days, taking the last three years in all triple crown events as "these days". So a first round loss for Ding was statistically expected.

It's funny because prior to last season Ding often did very well in the UK events, winning 2 UKs, one Masters for instance. Since he won the Shanghai Masters last season all that changed and he now performs well in China and pretty poor in UK. He even got to the semis in Wuxi this season, his only good result so far apart from an Asian PTC win.

Ever thought why that may be?

I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Pointless stat. People are obsessed with pointless stats

Paddpotter wrote:

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Pointless stat. People are obsessed with pointless stats

It's not pointless, if you don't like it then

Skull should know the asnwer SO, he usually does

Andre147 wrote:

Paddpotter wrote:

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Pointless stat. People are obsessed with pointless stats

It's not pointless, if you don't like it then

Skull should know the asnwer SO, he usually does

Mate I was giving my opinion don't be so sensitive

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Less than 2 or exactly 2? Less than 2 was 2011 when there were 0. 2 exactly?

Edit: 2007, with Hendry and ROS the only past champs.

TheRocket wrote:

Snooker Overdrive wrote:

TheRocket wrote:

Skullman wrote:I had Robertson before the tournament, but Allen is looking good after the first round. Ronnie isn't playing brilliantly but his match play is solid enough that he doesn't need to these days.

Ronnies game atm is a little bit comparable to Higgins' in 2011. He's not playing brillantly but he still manages to make the important clearances and withstand the key situations to win at the end. But it's not his natural game, so I don't think, it's good for him to keep playing like that.

He's a heavy scorer, that's how he plays the game and that's how the won the far majority of his tournaments.

Not quite!

I agree that his UK win was very Higgins '11 like but let's not forget that he played his very best just a couple of weeks earlier at the CoC. His A-game hasn't vanished, the difference nowadays is that he has a great plan B. Ronnie wouldn't have won the UK 10 years ago the way he played in December.

He has turned into the ultimate competitor who can win any tournament he enters no matter how well he's playing.

I just think, to win the WC he really has to play his natural game, especially when he gets a bad draw. As good as a competitor he's, but if it's not your natural game , it will be not easy to keep winning matches like that over such a long distance. It will take a lot out of him. I've never seen Ronnie so powerless like after that UK final.

He's just not used, playing matches like that all the time and you can't blame him. Because most of the time, when he wins a major, he just demolishes his opponents with his heavy scoring.

Yes to win long tournaments like Worlds and UK he definately needs to win most of his matches easily. After that Perry match at the Worlds, he was absolutely knackered, had Murphy not been all over the place he would have beaten Ronnie, and so would have Hawkins because the Perry match took a lot out of him. Like you say, by not playing many matches per season, he cant cope too well with long and draining matches. The Trump match is an example aswell as you said.

Paddpotter wrote:

Andre147 wrote:

Paddpotter wrote:

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Pointless stat. People are obsessed with pointless stats

It's not pointless, if you don't like it then

Skull should know the asnwer SO, he usually does

Mate I was giving my opinion don't be so sensitive

Ok then, I just like these kind of stats, as many here also do. You are obviously entitled not to like them

There goes the Crash Bandicoot song again in this BBC feature about Higgins

TheRocket wrote:I just think, to win the WC he really has to play his natural game, especially when he gets a bad draw. As good as a competitor he's, but if it's not your natural game , it will be not easy to keep winning matches like that over such a long distance. It will take a lot out of him. I've never seen Ronnie so powerless like after that UK final.

He's just not used, playing matches like that all the time and you can't blame him. Because most of the time, when he wins a major, he just demolishes his opponents with his heavy scoring.

I think your point is that his more defensive, tighter approach restricts his natural attacking game, right?

But I don't think that's a problem. He has a very good balance nowadays. He's trying to keep things tight and plays telling safeties but he can instantly switch into break building mode. The long pots go in when he really needs them (UK final) and his composure under pressure is great. His game is very strong in all departments meaning even if one or two aren't working properly he can compensate. Ronnie is still very attacking in crucial moments (that long red in the decider of the UK semi) and his break building remains strong.

We're certainly seeing a different Ronnie nowadays, but in my opinion it's the best ever O'Sullivan. The titles he won since 2012 speak for themselves.

Andre147 wrote:

Paddpotter wrote:

Andre147 wrote:

Paddpotter wrote:

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Pointless stat. People are obsessed with pointless stats

It's not pointless, if you don't like it then

Skull should know the asnwer SO, he usually does

Mate I was giving my opinion don't be so sensitive

Ok then, I just like these kind of stats, as many here also do. You are obviously entitled not to like them

All stats are good but in the context of this thread them stats are bull sorry

Ding Junhui now has the same pattern as Ronnie, in that they both play well in their home country/continent but not so well abroad, yet Ronnie is lucky that the big events are all in his own country! IMO the solution for continuing Chinese money in snooker is to move the World Championship to China, or at least share the World Championship alternate years with China.

Andy Spark wrote:Ding Junhui now has the same pattern as Ronnie, in that they both play well in their home country/continent but not so well abroad, yet Ronnie is lucky that the big events are all in his own country! IMO the solution for continuing Chinese money in snooker is to move the World Championship to China, or at least share the World Championship alternate years with China.

Like Andre said earlier, not long ago it was the other way round for Ding.

Skullman wrote:

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I just realized that only 2 former Masters Champions made it to the quarters. When was the last time that happened?

Less than 2 or exactly 2? Less than 2 was 2011 when there were 0. 2 exactly?

Edit: 2007, with Hendry and ROS the only past champs.

2011 was crazy and 2015 is heading in the same direction.

Snooker Overdrive wrote:

Andy Spark wrote:Ding Junhui now has the same pattern as Ronnie, in that they both play well in their home country/continent but not so well abroad, yet Ronnie is lucky that the big events are all in his own country! IMO the solution for continuing Chinese money in snooker is to move the World Championship to China, or at least share the World Championship alternate years with China.

Like Andre said earlier, not long ago it was the other way round for Ding.

Why the change? IMO it's because of the increase in number of events in China! When there were only two Chinese events there was huge pressure on Ding Junhui to perform. Now he knows he can muck one up and there'll be another one along soon. NOW China and Britain have similar numbers of events!