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Is this event devalued?

Postby SnookerFan

Barry Hawkins won the PTC Grand Finals at the weekend and then pulled out of the China Open.

Some people suggest that an event is tin pot if Ronnie doesn't participate. Does this mean the China Open is tin pot, because the most recent tournament winner didn't turn up?

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:Barry Hawkins won the PTC Grand Finals at the weekend and then pulled out of the China Open.

Some people suggest that an event is tin pot if Ronnie doesn't participate. Does this mean the China Open is tin pot, because the most recent tournament winner didn't turn up?

No it dont devalue anything

We are now in a era that allows players to pick and choose so players missing doesn't devalue anything its choices at the end of the day...

its unfortunate that this event was so near the PTC Grand Finals but as winner of that event i don't blame Barry Hawkins of pulling out.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby SnookerFan

I was attempting to be ironic. <laugh> People are always claiming that an event is tin pot, especially if certain players aren't in it.

Another attempt at humour fail by me. :-D

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Lucky

Saturday final in England and a tournament starting in China on the Monday is absolutely bonkers in anyones book. More snooker is obviously good but its gotta be run and organised properly. The China open has been around a while and was gaining prestige. That will soon
Be all lost if players start dropping out to concentrate on the PTC finals and the Worlds. As a UK based player its a no brainer.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Skullman

Well hopefully next year the PTC finals will be in Thailand without any civil unrest or be in England from the start and scheduled accordingly.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Andy Spark

Skullman wrote:Well hopefully next year the PTC finals will be in Thailand without any civil unrest or be in England from the start and scheduled accordingly.

I think if Ronnie went to Thailand and did some exhibitions he might be able to end the civil unrest, the police and the rioters would stop to watch him play. It could be the "make snooker not war" tour. That is just how big Ronnie is in the "snooker fearing" parts of the world. :-)

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby GJ

Its not devalued as the Defending champ is competing

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby SnookerFan

Andy Spark wrote:I think if Ronnie went to Thailand and did some exhibitions he might be able to end the civil unrest, the police and the rioters would stop to watch him play. It could be the "make snooker not war" tour. That is just how big Ronnie is in the "snooker fearing" parts of the world. :-)


rofl rofl

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:
Andy Spark wrote:I think if Ronnie went to Thailand and did some exhibitions he might be able to end the civil unrest, the police and the rioters would stop to watch him play. It could be the "make snooker not war" tour. That is just how big Ronnie is in the "snooker fearing" parts of the world. :-)


rofl rofl

If Ronnie Went to Thailand the rioters and the Police would be in a state of shock they would faint.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Cloud Strife

Wildey wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Andy Spark wrote:I think if Ronnie went to Thailand and did some exhibitions he might be able to end the civil unrest, the police and the rioters would stop to watch him play. It could be the "make snooker not war" tour. That is just how big Ronnie is in the "snooker fearing" parts of the world. :-)


rofl rofl

If Ronnie Went to Thailand the rioters and the Police would be in a state of shock they would faint.


If Stephen Hendry went to Thailand the rioters and the Police would be in a state of boredom, they would fall asleep.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby kolompar

get back on topic
the event is devalued because Tony Drago pulled out <ok>
still it has more top players than the aussie goldfields open had

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby PLtheRef

Yes this year the event is devalued. Several players have pulled out after qualifying which doesn't help the tournament at all. Of course, the reasons provided are genuine, but it still doesn't help the tournament which is already seen as the Crucible Warm Up tournament.

The long journey naturally wasn't the most welcoming of trips but the nature of it couldn't really be helped.

What has not helped this year is that the tournament was going to be held after the cut off point for the World Championship seedings. The players know that this tournament won't have any bearing on the tournament and the draw. (I know that this is necessary when the qualifiers open up within 36 hours of the China Open final but this shows how the scheduling is a problem - and one which indeed was avoidable)

What needs to happen is the China Open needs to be held the final full week of March with a full week between that and the qualifying tournament for the World Championship to stand alone with all roads leading to Sheffield

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Wildey

I Think a re think is required for this event its a major event and should have respect and not seen as a warm up

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby SnookerFan

I actually meant this as a joke. People always post about tournaments being tin pot because Ronnie isn't in it. I thought this would be put straight in The Junkyard. <laugh>

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Lucky

SnookerFan wrote:I actually meant this as a joke. People always post about tournaments being tin pot because Ronnie isn't in it. I thought this would be put straight in The Junkyard. <laugh>



Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:I actually meant this as a joke. People always post about tournaments being tin pot because Ronnie isn't in it. I thought this would be put straight in The Junkyard. <laugh>

might have been a joke by you but there are idiots out there that thinks it is devalued so its a talking point and therefore is not a candidate to the junkyard YET.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Wildey wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I actually meant this as a joke. People always post about tournaments being tin pot because Ronnie isn't in it. I thought this would be put straight in The Junkyard. <laugh>

might have been a joke by you but there are idiots out there that thinks it is devalued so its a talking point and therefore is not a candidate to the junkyard YET.


Wild nice to see you respecting other people's opinions <laugh>

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Wildey

SO

Just because a player decided for his own interest to not enter or to pull out of a tournament it doesent devalue a tournament it happens all the time in other sports through injury or whatever but the show goes on.

The event cant be held responsible for players withdrawing its just part of professional sport in 2014 and yes some people that don't see it like that are idiots and clueless.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Andre147

Wildey wrote:SO

Just because a player decided for his own interest to not enter or to pull out of a tournament it doesent devalue a tournament it happens all the time in other sports through injury or whatever but the show goes on.

The event cant be held responsible for players withdrawing its just part of professional sport in 2014 and yes some people that don't see it like that are idiots and clueless.


Yes Wild I agree with what you say there <ok>

And that is even way more evident when some clueless..... ermmmm fans say that everytime Ronnie doesn't enter an event it devaluates it rofl , despite all the other top boys being on it.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby PLtheRef

Andre147 PGC wrote:
Wildey wrote:SO

Just because a player decided for his own interest to not enter or to pull out of a tournament it doesent devalue a tournament it happens all the time in other sports through injury or whatever but the show goes on.

The event cant be held responsible for players withdrawing its just part of professional sport in 2014 and yes some people that don't see it like that are idiots and clueless.


Yes Wild I agree with what you say there <ok>

And that is even way more evident when some clueless..... ermmmm fans say that everytime Ronnie doesn't enter an event it devaluates it rofl , despite all the other top boys being on it.



The reason why it becomes devalued when 1 or 2 players withdrawing from the competition becomes more than just 1 or 2. A few received byes in the competition which doesn't help it (even if they are as it seems in this case all for genuine reasons).

One withdrawal doesn't devalue any event. A few may do, and in the case of the China Open, I think the circuits been its own worst enemy. A tournament which doesn't count to the qualifying of the most important tournament of the lot instantly devalues it as a ranking event. Why go over to China if you know you're going to be safely at the Crucible? In the Last 48 round?

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Andre147

PLtheRef wrote:
Andre147 PGC wrote:
Wildey wrote:SO

Just because a player decided for his own interest to not enter or to pull out of a tournament it doesent devalue a tournament it happens all the time in other sports through injury or whatever but the show goes on.

The event cant be held responsible for players withdrawing its just part of professional sport in 2014 and yes some people that don't see it like that are idiots and clueless.


Yes Wild I agree with what you say there <ok>

And that is even way more evident when some clueless..... ermmmm fans say that everytime Ronnie doesn't enter an event it devaluates it rofl , despite all the other top boys being on it.



The reason why it becomes devalued when 1 or 2 players withdrawing from the competition becomes more than just 1 or 2. A few received byes in the competition which doesn't help it (even if they are as it seems in this case all for genuine reasons).

One withdrawal doesn't devalue any event. A few may do, and in the case of the China Open, I think the circuits been its own worst enemy. A tournament which doesn't count to the qualifying of the most important tournament of the lot instantly devalues it as a ranking event. Why go over to China if you know you're going to be safely at the Crucible? In the Last 48 round?


In here it isn't much because of the number of players that withdrew from the event that devaluates it, the true reason I think is the one you mentioned: this tournament should really decide the positions in the rankings as the last cut off point so that players know this event is massive to qualify for the biggest of them all, the Worlds.

Now most players, even though a ranking win is a ranking win, most players see it as a kind of "warm up" event for the Big One, and that is not I think how things should be run in this sport.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Wildey

this warm up idea is a new thing that's come in during the last decade.

that was never how it was in the past its a new concept that has come in during the multi media era.

each tournament was played on merit during the 80s and 90s and not seen as inferior like they do now

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Wild:

I agree with PL on this one.

Of course the event isn't devalued just because Ronnie hasn't entered. But there are other factors already explained above that, at least slightly, devalue the event. But it's not nearly as bad as the Bahrain Championship in 2009, that truly was a disaster.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Wildey

Snooker Overdrive wrote:Wild:

I agree with PL on this one.

Of course the event isn't devalued just because Ronnie hasn't entered. But there are other factors already explained above that, at least slightly, devalue the event. But it's not nearly as bad as the Bahrain Championship in 2009, that truly was a disaster.

But over the years to come you could have players playing 3 out of 5 china tournaments so players missing will become the norm and if the top 16 all pick the same events to enter you could have Ranked 17 as top seed.

its what players want the freedom to pick and choose and Money Rankings will give them that freedom to do just that.

we as fans has to accept that whats going to happen and it shouldn't devalue the achievement of winning the title.

Ronnie could enter a event and Robbo, Ding, Selby, Higgins, Murphy, Hawkins and Trump all missing in fact he could be defending his welsh title with that scenario next season.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby SnookerFan

Snooker Overdrive wrote:Wild:

I agree with PL on this one.

Of course the event isn't devalued just because Ronnie hasn't entered. But there are other factors already explained above that, at least slightly, devalue the event. But it's not nearly as bad as the Bahrain Championship in 2009, that truly was a disaster.


Bahrain.... Was it really 5 years ago? At least we got to see decent runs by people lower down the rankings.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby PLtheRef

Wildey wrote:this warm up idea is a new thing that's come in during the last decade.

that was never how it was in the past its a new concept that has come in during the multi media era.

each tournament was played on merit during the 80s and 90s and not seen as inferior like they do now


I'm not sure that it's completely new. I think its something which has evolved over the times recently because the fact is that the "warm up slot" has now become a tournament in China rather than a tournament in Plymouth or Edinburgh as it used to be. Players are travelling a lot further now. The mindset's different. We've got a world ranking tournament on at the moment and an established one at that yet still the attention seems to be turning already to what's going to happen at Ponds Forge.

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby PLtheRef

wildey wrote:we as fans has to accept that whats going to happen and it shouldn't devalue the achievement of winning the title.


I agree that it shouldn't but in many cases it could well do so. The odd withdrawal from a competition does occur, but it seems to be almost odd if a 64 man field doesn't have the letters w/o in it during the week at some point. When players are withdrawing with an eye on the next event, we do have a problem.

If it became the norm where players were picking and choosing their tournaments then attitudes would change along with the times but where its almost "expected" that all players turn up to events then when several pull out there's going to be that feeling of devalued. And if like it seems to be too much is expected of the players then as a circuit we have a problem

Re: Is this event devalued?

Postby Andre147

PLtheRef wrote:
wildey wrote:we as fans has to accept that whats going to happen and it shouldn't devalue the achievement of winning the title.


I agree that it shouldn't but in many cases it could well do so. The odd withdrawal from a competition does occur, but it seems to be almost odd if a 64 man field doesn't have the letters w/o in it during the week at some point. When players are withdrawing with an eye on the next event, we do have a problem.

If it became the norm where players were picking and choosing their tournaments then attitudes would change along with the times but where its almost "expected" that all players turn up to events then when several pull out there's going to be that feeling of devalued. And if like it seems to be too much is expected of the players then as a circuit we have a problem


Atm the only real player who does "pick and choose" his events is obviosuly Ronnie, all the other players play in almost everything, and although if they want to maintain their ranking they can't do what Ronnie does for instance, we have yet to see the top players really picking and choosing which events they feel they would like to play. The prize money rankings will see that become more and more frequent I think, but of course that applies mostly to the top players because those down the rankings for obvious reasons can't afford to do that, and nor should they if they want to clim up in the rankings and earn their right to pick and choose those they want to play in.

I don't think despite all this that this event was devaluated, we can still very well end up with a Final between 2 of the 3 best players in this season, Robbo and Ding, so we couldn't ask for much better than that to be honest.

Unless it ends up in a Final between Dunn and Carter rofl