by Wildey » 28 Feb 2014 Read
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64447
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by Skullman » 28 Feb 2014 Read
Effective head to heads. No PTC matches to include or exclude this time.
Ding v Perry 5-1
-----------------------
Hawkins v ROS 1-5
-
Skullman
- Posts: 27634
- Joined: 14 February 2012
- Location: Fighting crime
- Snooker Idol: Selby and Robbo
by Blavdes » 28 Feb 2014 Read
It's possible there will be a very symbolic final, a changing of the guard if you like as I can see Ding beating Ron and if that happens going on to win the Worlds.
-
Blavdes
- Posts: 317
- Joined: 12 December 2013
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie
by Snooker Overdrive » 28 Feb 2014 Read
Blavdes wrote:It's possible there will be a very symbolic final, a changing of the guard if you like as I can see Ding beating Ron and if that happens going on to win the Worlds.
Sometimes it seems every time Ronnie loses to a younger player it's considered a changing of the guard. I heard that after the 2011 Masters match against Trump, in 2010 we all thought the new generation Robertson, Selby would take over and we all know what happened.
We can talk about changing of the guards if Ding beats Ronnie in the World final and starts declining in the following seasons, OK?
-
Snooker Overdrive
- Posts: 13796
- Joined: 10 December 2010
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie
by Snooker Overdrive » 28 Feb 2014 Read
Also I don't see another young player with the quality of a Ding Junhui (including Trump at the moment). So 1 fairly young player can't really be considered as a new generation really...
-
Snooker Overdrive
- Posts: 13796
- Joined: 10 December 2010
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie
by Skullman » 28 Feb 2014 Read
Doesn't matter if it's just one player if Ding keeps winning four or five rankers a season. Plus Judd and Allen are bound to get their acts together at some point.
At the moment I'm more worried about the generation that will follow them, because there's no younger player that's consistently doing well atm outside those three(maybe Xiao but we'll see).
-
Skullman
- Posts: 27634
- Joined: 14 February 2012
- Location: Fighting crime
- Snooker Idol: Selby and Robbo
by Blavdes » 28 Feb 2014 Read
Snooker Overdrive wrote:We can talk about changing of the guards if Ding beats Ronnie in the World final and starts declining in the following seasons, OK?
Ding will be a multiple world champion and his reign in that regard is coming sooner rather than later and to compare Trump and Ding is ridiculous so lets ignore that.
A change at the top doesn't have to include Ronnie at all, maybe they'll never have a match people will point to years later as significant, but if there is then to me this looks like a ripe opportunity for Ding. That's my speculation, to add a bit more spice to the rest of the tournament, if you don't even want to entertain that possibility then your loss
Anyway, Hawkins and Perry look like they could create two classic semis so who knows what will happen.
-
Blavdes
- Posts: 317
- Joined: 12 December 2013
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie
by Skullman » 28 Feb 2014 Read
On the other hand, if Ding can't beat Ronnie on Sunday, especially from a promising position, I'd say he never will be able to.
-
Skullman
- Posts: 27634
- Joined: 14 February 2012
- Location: Fighting crime
- Snooker Idol: Selby and Robbo
by Andy Spark » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Ronnie seems to be winning his recent matches easily, Ding isn't. If there is indeed to be any "changing of the guard" then the signs aren't really there in the fashion of their respective match victories, also in terms of the status of the events there is a gulf. Ding hasn't done anything in the recent majors, Ronnie has.
-
Andy Spark
- Posts: 1639
- Joined: 29 May 2011
- Location: Bournemouth
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie Luca and Thais
- Highest Break: 78
- Walk-On: Alkan: piano etude op.35 no.12
by Andre147 » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Snooker Overdrive wrote:Blavdes wrote:It's possible there will be a very symbolic final, a changing of the guard if you like as I can see Ding beating Ron and if that happens going on to win the Worlds.
Sometimes it seems every time Ronnie loses to a younger player it's considered a changing of the guard. I heard that after the 2011 Masters match against Trump, in 2010 we all thought the new generation Robertson, Selby would take over and we all know what happened.
We can talk about changing of the guards if Ding beats Ronnie in the World final and starts declining in the following seasons, OK?
Oh yeah absolutely SO, that was BS talk back then and I was so annoyed when they couldn't stop refering to that when Trump beat him, Dave Hendon was always saying it, it was just.... BS.
Even if Ding were to beat Ronnie in the final it isn't a changing of the guard by any means like you say, only if Ronnie were to start a serious decline which atm unlike Higgins or Williams still seems like he'll have at least 2 or 3 more seasons playing like he has recently.
-
Andre147
- Posts: 41804
- Joined: 09 October 2011
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie and Luca
- Highest Break: 27
- Walk-On: Spies - Coldplay
by Skullman » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Don't see how it was BS. At the time, he hadn't won a ranker, major or otherwise for two years, and Trump has beaten him three times, back to back in majors and crushed him 6-2 in the Masters. What were people meant to say? That he would win back to World Championships and a Masters in the coming years?
Regarding Ding, he didn't start brilliantly in any of his other ranking victories this season but did enough and stepped it up when it mattered. His path has been tougher than Ronnie's. Doesn't mean anything. Only their respective forms on Sunday will matter (assuming they make it).
-
Skullman
- Posts: 27634
- Joined: 14 February 2012
- Location: Fighting crime
- Snooker Idol: Selby and Robbo
by Skullman » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Andy Spark wrote:Ronnie seems to be winning his recent matches easily, Ding isn't. If there is indeed to be any "changing of the guard" then the signs aren't really there in the fashion of their respective match victories, also in terms of the status of the events there is a gulf. Ding hasn't done anything in the recent majors, Ronnie has.
Majors, as plural? Ronnie's won one recently. Plus these days, the IC means as much as the UK, and don't try using the history excuse, because if you cared about history you'd give this tournament more respect, considering it has more than every tournament bar the majors.
-
Skullman
- Posts: 27634
- Joined: 14 February 2012
- Location: Fighting crime
- Snooker Idol: Selby and Robbo
by NNear » 01 Mar 2014 Read
I was under the impression that Ronnie has won three of the last six Triple Crown events (Majors).
-
NNear
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: 01 March 2014
- Snooker Idol: OSullivan SDavis
by Cloud Strife » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Skullman wrote:Andy Spark wrote:Ronnie seems to be winning his recent matches easily, Ding isn't. If there is indeed to be any "changing of the guard" then the signs aren't really there in the fashion of their respective match victories, also in terms of the status of the events there is a gulf. Ding hasn't done anything in the recent majors, Ronnie has.
Majors, as plural? Ronnie's won one recently. Plus these days, the IC means as much as the UK, and don't try using the history excuse, because if you cared about history you'd give this tournament more respect, considering it has more than every tournament bar the majors.
I consider the IC as a major now, so yes Ding has already won a major this season, as far I'm concerned.
-
Cloud Strife
- Posts: 18563
- Joined: 28 January 2014
- Location: Antarctica
- Snooker Idol: Roger Federer
- Highest Break: 155
- Walk-On: Don Vedda - buck You
-
by Cannonball » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Ding is the man once ROS retires, but he may have to wait another five years yet. I think Ding can dominate for a decade, as long as he keeps himself in shape and has the hunger to go with it. He's Chinese so he's not going to be lazy about practice. Judd on the other hand is more interested in fast cars, nights out and shoe shopping. 2hrs practice a day does not make a master. ROS spent 8 hrs a day for six weeks before the 2012 Worlds practising, if some reports are to be believed. Hendry did pretty much the same. Even if you're talented, you have to put the hours in, to put that cue ball on a ten pence piece. Players either enjoy practice, don't enjoy it but are willing to do it for the rewards, or they don't like it and don't do it. Robbo was in the 2nd category, slipped into the last category, but has now cut back tournaments to spend time practicing. Let's hope it serves him well. I can't see Team Judd changing much. And as long as they're earning, they won't care.
As for the lack of youngsters coming through from these shores, I'm not worried. Each decade is dominated by a few players with the rest making up the numbers. Snooker has always been top heavy, like tennis. What will be interesting is if the huge number of kids taking up the game in China, can produce some talented young players who can rise to be champions. I think they will.
-
Cannonball
- Posts: 1574
- Joined: 05 September 2012
- Location: On the green baize
- Snooker Idol: The Genius 775+ tonnes
- Highest Break: 1
- Walk-On: Mars, the Bringer of War, from 4:17 (Holst - The Planets)
by Roland » 01 Mar 2014 Read
If Ding faces and beats Ronnie in the final, only if he repeats the feat at the Crucible can it be seen as a changing of the guard.
-
Roland
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18267
- Joined: 29 September 2009
- Location: Cannonbridge, Snooker Island
- Snooker Idol: Selby Ding Kyren Luca
- Highest Break: 102
- Walk-On: Bal Sagoth
-
by Cannonball » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Sonny wrote:If Ding faces and beats Ronnie in the final, only if he repeats the feat at the Crucible can it be seen as a changing of the guard.
I think Ding gets tired and bored in Sheffield by week two. Ronnie has learnt how to manage himself and his time during the Worlds, taking himself out of the boredom of the tournament, keeping himself fresh in mind. This can make all the difference. If he can overcome this, I think he can win the Worlds. I wonder if Ding's season has been accompanied by any work with sports psychos; anyone know? Obviously, Steve Peters has done wonders with Ronnie.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how Lu Haotian develops. He's not had a brilliant start to his pro career, after winning the world under 21 at a ridiculously young age.
-
Cannonball
- Posts: 1574
- Joined: 05 September 2012
- Location: On the green baize
- Snooker Idol: The Genius 775+ tonnes
- Highest Break: 1
- Walk-On: Mars, the Bringer of War, from 4:17 (Holst - The Planets)
by Roland » 01 Mar 2014 Read
I don't think Ding gets bored by week 2, he lives in Sheffield after all. He's a different player this season to last so I think he's got an excellent chance of winning the Worlds.
And the changing of the guard is when someone comes along and beats Ronnie more than once and continues to get the upper hand on him in subsequent meetings. Either that or if Ronnie drops his standard and ends up retiring.
Also as well as Haotian keep an eye out for the two Chinese teenagers who contested the World Amateur final a few months ago. Big things are expected of both.
-
Roland
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18267
- Joined: 29 September 2009
- Location: Cannonbridge, Snooker Island
- Snooker Idol: Selby Ding Kyren Luca
- Highest Break: 102
- Walk-On: Bal Sagoth
-
by Cannonball » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Sonny wrote:I don't think Ding gets bored by week 2, he lives in Sheffield after all. He's a different player this season to last so I think he's got an excellent chance of winning the Worlds.
And the changing of the guard is when someone comes along and beats Ronnie more than once and continues to get the upper hand on him in subsequent meetings. Either that or if Ronnie drops his standard and ends up retiring.
Also as well as Haotian keep an eye out for the two Chinese teenagers who contested the World Amateur final a few months ago. Big things are expected of both.
As well as kaka, the pint sized genius. 2027 World Champion? They're bound to produce a World Champion sooner or later.
-
Cannonball
- Posts: 1574
- Joined: 05 September 2012
- Location: On the green baize
- Snooker Idol: The Genius 775+ tonnes
- Highest Break: 1
- Walk-On: Mars, the Bringer of War, from 4:17 (Holst - The Planets)
by Wildey » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Sonny wrote:I don't think Ding gets bored by week 2, he lives in Sheffield after all. He's a different player this season to last so I think he's got an excellent chance of winning the Worlds.
And the changing of the guard is when someone comes along and beats Ronnie more than once and continues to get the upper hand on him in subsequent meetings. Either that or if Ronnie drops his standard and ends up retiring.
Also as well as Haotian keep an eye out for the two Chinese teenagers who contested the World Amateur final a few months ago. Big things are expected of both.
Yea What happens here doesn't signal anything. in the last 10 years the World Championship has been won by
4 Ronnie O'Sullivan
3 John Higgins
1 Shaun Murphy
1 Graeme Dott
1 Neil Robertson
Shaun Murphy was the only one in the age Bracket where you would hope World Champion class players starts winning it. Ding is now 26 and will be 27 by the time the World Championship comes along. hopefully he can start giving a good account of himself.
The youngest 2 time winner of the World Championship since Stephen Hendry was Mark Williams at 28 years and 3 months so cant see that beaten any time soon.
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64447
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by Roland » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Well Ding's got a chance
-
Roland
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18267
- Joined: 29 September 2009
- Location: Cannonbridge, Snooker Island
- Snooker Idol: Selby Ding Kyren Luca
- Highest Break: 102
- Walk-On: Bal Sagoth
-
by Cannonball » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Wildey wrote:Sonny wrote:I don't think Ding gets bored by week 2, he lives in Sheffield after all. He's a different player this season to last so I think he's got an excellent chance of winning the Worlds.
And the changing of the guard is when someone comes along and beats Ronnie more than once and continues to get the upper hand on him in subsequent meetings. Either that or if Ronnie drops his standard and ends up retiring.
Also as well as Haotian keep an eye out for the two Chinese teenagers who contested the World Amateur final a few months ago. Big things are expected of both.
Yea What happens here doesn't signal anything. in the last 10 years the World Championship has been won by
4 Ronnie O'Sullivan
3 John Higgins
1 Shaun Murphy
1 Graeme Dott
1 Neil Robertson
Shaun Murphy was the only one in the age Bracket where you would hope World Champion class players starts winning it. Ding is now 26 and will be 27 by the time the World Championship comes along. hopefully he can start giving a good account of himself.
The youngest 2 time winner of the World Championship since Stephen Hendry was Mark Williams at 28 years and 3 months so cant see that beaten any time soon.
When Davis and Hendry broke through, they brought different techniques to the game and revolutionised it. Davis' 'foot in line' set-up and Hendry's ability to open the pack off the black and break build spring to mind. The optimal way to play snooker has been pretty much worked out now, so snooker is getting more like tennis, where young players might not break through for a long time, unless they have a natural talent advantage. But if Ding sticks at it, he can dominate. Ronnie will retire eventually, especially if he gets to 8 world titles. We all know he wants to do other things. It's great that he's still going, snooker would be only half the sport without him. He's that important.
-
Cannonball
- Posts: 1574
- Joined: 05 September 2012
- Location: On the green baize
- Snooker Idol: The Genius 775+ tonnes
- Highest Break: 1
- Walk-On: Mars, the Bringer of War, from 4:17 (Holst - The Planets)
by simplysnooker » 01 Mar 2014 Read
IMO if Ding beats Ronnie in the final I put him as favourite at the Crucible
-
simplysnooker
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: 29 October 2010
- Snooker Idol: Ding Junhui
- Highest Break: 13
by simplysnooker » 01 Mar 2014 Read
However, I don't think today is going to be as one-sided as people think. Last year it was Ding/Bingham and Maguire/Trump in the semi-finals and everyone was tipping a Ding/Trump final.
Perry thrashed Selby 5-1 last night and will be full of confidence, so am expecting the afternoon match to go close, 6-4 or 6-5 maybe.
-
simplysnooker
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: 29 October 2010
- Snooker Idol: Ding Junhui
- Highest Break: 13
by Andy Spark » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Cloud Strife wrote:Skullman wrote:Andy Spark wrote:Ronnie seems to be winning his recent matches easily, Ding isn't. If there is indeed to be any "changing of the guard" then the signs aren't really there in the fashion of their respective match victories, also in terms of the status of the events there is a gulf. Ding hasn't done anything in the recent majors, Ronnie has.
Majors, as plural? Ronnie's won one recently. Plus these days, the IC means as much as the UK, and don't try using the history excuse, because if you cared about history you'd give this tournament more respect, considering it has more than every tournament bar the majors.
I consider the IC as a major now, so yes Ding has already won a major this season, as far I'm concerned.
The IC isn't a major, the triple crown events are still the triple crown events. There has already been an egregious manipulation of statistics by exploding the number of rankers a season while treating them as having the same status as previous rankers. We should not repeat the mistake with majors by producing another sprint event and referring to it as a major.
-
Andy Spark
- Posts: 1639
- Joined: 29 May 2011
- Location: Bournemouth
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie Luca and Thais
- Highest Break: 78
- Walk-On: Alkan: piano etude op.35 no.12
by Snooker Overdrive » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Andy Spark wrote:Cloud Strife wrote:Skullman wrote:Andy Spark wrote:Ronnie seems to be winning his recent matches easily, Ding isn't. If there is indeed to be any "changing of the guard" then the signs aren't really there in the fashion of their respective match victories, also in terms of the status of the events there is a gulf. Ding hasn't done anything in the recent majors, Ronnie has.
Majors, as plural? Ronnie's won one recently. Plus these days, the IC means as much as the UK, and don't try using the history excuse, because if you cared about history you'd give this tournament more respect, considering it has more than every tournament bar the majors.
I consider the IC as a major now, so yes Ding has already won a major this season, as far I'm concerned.
The IC isn't a major, the triple crown events are still the triple crown events. There has already been an egregious manipulation of statistics by exploding the number of rankers a season while treating them as having the same status as previous rankers. We should not repeat the mistake with majors by producing another sprint event and referring to it as a major.
I agree with that.
-
Snooker Overdrive
- Posts: 13796
- Joined: 10 December 2010
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie
by Wildey » 01 Mar 2014 Read
simplysnooker wrote:IMO if Ding beats Ronnie in the final I put him as favourite at the Crucible
That would be brilliant for the sport.
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64447
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by Cloud Strife » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Snooker Overdrive wrote:Andy Spark wrote:Cloud Strife wrote:Skullman wrote:Andy Spark wrote:Ronnie seems to be winning his recent matches easily, Ding isn't. If there is indeed to be any "changing of the guard" then the signs aren't really there in the fashion of their respective match victories, also in terms of the status of the events there is a gulf. Ding hasn't done anything in the recent majors, Ronnie has.
Majors, as plural? Ronnie's won one recently. Plus these days, the IC means as much as the UK, and don't try using the history excuse, because if you cared about history you'd give this tournament more respect, considering it has more than every tournament bar the majors.
I consider the IC as a major now, so yes Ding has already won a major this season, as far I'm concerned.
The IC isn't a major, the triple crown events are still the triple crown events. There has already been an egregious manipulation of statistics by exploding the number of rankers a season while treating them as having the same status as previous rankers. We should not repeat the mistake with majors by producing another sprint event and referring to it as a major.
I agree with that.
I'm not a traditionalist as far as certain tournaments go. Times change, look at the UK Championship for instance, only a fool would say that event is still as prestigious as it once was. If in 10 years time the UK is held in a shed in someone's back garden would it be still considered a major?
And who came up with the term 'the Triple Crown'? Is that the official terminology to describe the WC, Masters and UK?
And Andy Spark, stats in snooker are mostly useless anyway, especially 'major' wins, mainly because there are no official majors in snooker like there are in tennis and golf. The term 'major' in snooker has been created mainly by the fans and media.
Statistics can be fun to compile and speculate over, if you're of that persuasion, but they are not the be all and end all.
-
Cloud Strife
- Posts: 18563
- Joined: 28 January 2014
- Location: Antarctica
- Snooker Idol: Roger Federer
- Highest Break: 155
- Walk-On: Don Vedda - buck You
-
by Cloud Strife » 01 Mar 2014 Read
Wildey wrote:simplysnooker wrote:IMO if Ding beats Ronnie in the final I put him as favourite at the Crucible
That would be brilliant for the sport.
It would be brilliant for the sport if Ronnie stayed around for another 20 years.
-
Cloud Strife
- Posts: 18563
- Joined: 28 January 2014
- Location: Antarctica
- Snooker Idol: Roger Federer
- Highest Break: 155
- Walk-On: Don Vedda - buck You
-