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Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby GJ

With the German masters starting this week , we are now under 3 months till the world championships start.

Now do you think any of the top players will decide to skip the welsh open or china open in a bid to be in peak shape for the crucible.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Skullman

Yes. They can't both use burnout as an excuse and then enter every event. I'd like everyone to perform this Worlds. These last two years, most of the seeds have put in poor performances.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Wildey

its up to the individual to play or not but there's no substitute to match practice and there is no excuse to be burnout playing in the World Championship that's just a convenient excuse for being rubbish.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby PLtheRef

Wildey wrote:its up to the individual to play or not but there's no substitute to match practice and there is no excuse to be burnout playing in the World Championship that's just a convenient excuse for being rubbish.


Is that a suggestion that a lot of good players suddenly drop in standard once they reach Sheffield?

I'm like you in being skeptical burnout actually occurs but to claim its just players covering up rubbish displays actually undermines the performances from the players who beat them, many of whom have taken their biggest scalps in the event

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby GJ

So basically what wild is saying, a player who has played 50 matches pre worlds will be as fresh as a player playing 20 matches pre worlds.

Yeah right .....

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Wildey

PLtheRef wrote:
Wildey wrote:its up to the individual to play or not but there's no substitute to match practice and there is no excuse to be burnout playing in the World Championship that's just a convenient excuse for being rubbish.


Is that a suggestion that a lot of good players suddenly drop in standard once they reach Sheffield?

I'm like you in being skeptical burnout actually occurs but to claim its just players covering up rubbish displays actually undermines the performances from the players who beat them, many of whom have taken their biggest scalps in the event

they couldn't hack it pure and simple.

sorry if that's not politically correct but there you go.

There was 3 weeks without any snooker before Sheffield last year for the top 16 with John Higgins, Ding Junhui and Judd Trump even more time off having lost in the last 32 in china. so a month to prepare.

lets get real here it was as if they were like rabbits in headlamps having Ronnie back.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby PLtheRef

It's a difficult one to call really. Like I've said, I'm skeptical about burnout - we lost eight seeds in the first round at the Crucible two years ago and there was no mention of the "b" word.

However, last year showed that someone who is arguably fresher over the course of the season (as Ronnie was) its potentially going to be an advantage and that it may not do someone harm to miss an event on the run in.

There is a balance between giving yourself enough time of a rest and then losing what form or match practice which you cannot really afford to let slip ahead of what is always going to be a testing event.

One thing to bear in mind this year is that the China Open is after the seeding cut off so the jockeying for positions that was common last year won't be necessary

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby PLtheRef

Wildey wrote:
PLtheRef wrote:
Wildey wrote:its up to the individual to play or not but there's no substitute to match practice and there is no excuse to be burnout playing in the World Championship that's just a convenient excuse for being rubbish.


Is that a suggestion that a lot of good players suddenly drop in standard once they reach Sheffield?

I'm like you in being skeptical burnout actually occurs but to claim its just players covering up rubbish displays actually undermines the performances from the players who beat them, many of whom have taken their biggest scalps in the event

they couldn't hack it pure and simple.

sorry if that's not politically correct but there you go.

There was 3 weeks without any snooker before Sheffield last year for the top 16 with John Higgins, Ding Junhui and Judd Trump even more time off having lost in the last 32 in china. so a month to prepare.

lets get real here it was as if they were like rabbits in headlamps having Ronnie back.


I'm fairly sure players can hack it - after all we had four players in the top 16 in the semi-finals of the 2013 World Championships despite claims of the "b" word , and like I said deriding players who did raise the issue as rubbish is diminishing of some players arguably best results, certainly on TV. Its like saying the only reason qualifiers like Davis, White, Poomjaeng and Milkins did well was because the opponent played rubbish.

In fact you've handed the ideal excuse for any of the top 16 who do go out in the first round to take away the due plaudits to their conqueror. "Well I played rubbish so they didn't really need to do much to beat me."

Burnout is not a good excuse, I agree there certainly when you consider that players playing for a week almost solid in the last fortnight have done well in the last two World Championships, but players don't simply play rubbish on the main stage and as GJ said a player who is fresher between one with 1 match all season compared to another with 50 matches played and you're going to say the one who plays 1 match.

Plus playing devils advocate here, Davis played some 14 hours less snooker in the 1983 Championship than Thorburn, and won the final 18-6 was that simply the matter of a World Championship Finalist suddenly playing rubbish?

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Wildey

Whats diminishing is Telling players "The reason you beat me is because i was knackered"

What im saying is some performances were bad from players but it was not Burn Out.

Was Selby still Burnt out when he didn't qualify for Wuxi? or its just one of those things Shock Results happen for all different reasons and Barry Hearn has Created a excuse they can use backed up by Snooker Fans as this thread proves.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Andre147

I think what this thread proves is that it can actually work in both ways...

I also don't like the burn out as an excuse, but no one can argue that for instance Ronnie who didn't play in anything last season apart from a PTC which he lost first round was much much fresher than Selby, Robbo or Murphy who played in everything they could. A fresh mentality and head does play a big part, especially in a tournament like the Worlds.

However in the other hand the players who actually did beat Robbo, in this case Milkins, and Selby last season at the Worlds, in that case Hawkins, played superbly well and fully deserved their wins, and their opponents weren't just good enough. Robbo himself since then has often admited he went very negative against Milkins and started playing slower than he normally does, whereas Selby just wasn't good enough especially in the last session when Hawkins came out all guns blazzing and blew Selby off the table.

To answer the initial question, of couse it's up to the players to decide if they want to skip an event or not, but I know if I were a player and for instance noticed that if I skiped a ranker my ranking wouldn't suffer much change I think I would skip at least one. A World number one in Robbo can definately afford to skip at least one.

I also think that this will become more and more common once the prize money rankings come into play next season. Then we will truly see some players favouring big prize money events and skipping some which offer less. Ronnie for instance I think is currently 4th in the money rankings if they started now so he's assured of a Top 16 place for at least 2 or 3 seasons more.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Simone

PLtheRef wrote:It's a difficult one to call really. Like I've said, I'm skeptical about burnout - we lost eight seeds in the first round at the Crucible two years ago and there was no mention of the "b" word.

However, last year showed that someone who is arguably fresher over the course of the season (as Ronnie was) its potentially going to be an advantage and that it may not do someone harm to miss an event on the run in.

There is a balance between giving yourself enough time of a rest and then losing what form or match practice which you cannot really afford to let slip ahead of what is always going to be a testing event.

One thing to bear in mind this year is that the China Open is after the seeding cut off so the jockeying for positions that was common last year won't be necessary


Yes, it might be a difficult one to call, BUT I think it´s very much about how one currently stands with his own game. And how one approaches an event pre worlds. And one´s playing style.

I.e one player I could name who I think that would benefit greatly a deep run before worlds, is Jimmy White. Actully I don´t right now even know if he has qualified or not.. But I personally still think that at his best he´s like a poetry in motion. I certainly think and feel that he´s one and only the real people´s champion, not Alex Higgins, Ronnie or Trump. And he has just got more and more spectator-friendly during the years.

I don´t think Ronnie would benefit much an event pre worlds. Might be even an opposite case for him.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Simone

Simone wrote:
PLtheRef wrote:It's a difficult one to call really. Like I've said, I'm skeptical about burnout - we lost eight seeds in the first round at the Crucible two years ago and there was no mention of the "b" word.

However, last year showed that someone who is arguably fresher over the course of the season (as Ronnie was) its potentially going to be an advantage and that it may not do someone harm to miss an event on the run in.

There is a balance between giving yourself enough time of a rest and then losing what form or match practice which you cannot really afford to let slip ahead of what is always going to be a testing event.

One thing to bear in mind this year is that the China Open is after the seeding cut off so the jockeying for positions that was common last year won't be necessary


Yes, it might be a difficult one to call, BUT I think it´s very much about how one currently stands with his own game. And how one approaches an event pre worlds. And one´s playing style.

I.e one player I could name who I think that would benefit greatly a deep run before worlds, is Jimmy White. Actully I don´t right now even know if he has qualified or not.. But I personally still think that at his best he´s like a poetry in motion. I certainly think and feel that he´s one and only the real people´s champion, not Alex Higgins, Ronnie or Trump. And he has just got more and more spectator-friendly during the years.

I don´t think Ronnie would benefit much an event pre worlds. Might be even an opposite case for him.


Well, just checked it out and Jimmy´s playing tomorrow 10:00 against Guodong!!

COME ON JIMMY!! :goodpost:

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Wildey

Andre

What it proved was Ronnie is a extremely gifted and brilliant snooker player coupled with the fact he himself had no expectations it was a very dangerous combination "if i win fantastic if i don't well i haven't been playing much" not another single snooker player in history could have had a year out and win the World Championship no matter how fresh they were.

other players looked at Ronnie and thought if he wins it makes us look like mugs and the pressure on the top players to perform and put the part timer in his place was immense and Burn Out was a credible cop out rather than owning up they couldn't hack it..

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Andre147

Wildey wrote:Andre

What it proved was Ronnie is a extremely gifted and brilliant snooker player coupled with the fact he himself had no expectations it was a very dangerous combination "if i win fantastic if i don't well i haven't been playing much" not another single snooker player in history could have had a year out and win the World Championship no matter how fresh they were.

other players looked at Ronnie and thought if he wins it makes us look like mugs and the pressure on the top players to perform and put the part timer in his place was immense and Burn Out was a credible cop out rather than owning up they couldn't hack it..


Yeah, I don't think any other player could have done what Ronnie did there and that has to go down as one of the finest achievments in the many we've had in this sport. And you're right, Ronnie wasn't expecting anything so there was no pressure on him (at least until the final), like he said he just wanted to be competitive and if he lost a match but felt he had given his opponent a good game given the circumstances he wouldn't have been too upset about it. So yeah like you said all those things combined made him the most dangerous player out there and the others felt that and couldn't keep up.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Andre147

Cloud Strife wrote:I suspect quite a few will skip the China Open.


I don't, I would give more of a chance for that to happen in the World Open, but even that one I don't think many top players will skip it.

As I said in one previous post, we will only truly see players, especially the top ranked ones, skip ranking tournaments when the prize money rankings come into play starting next season.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Andre147

Skullman wrote:Don't forget that the qualifiers have already passed for the World Open. The only top player to skip it was Ronnie.


Yeah you're right, Ronnie will probably only play in the Welsh Open and maybe just maybe China Open. I'd like him to play in the PTC Grand Finals, as he's assured of a place there but given the fact it's in Thailand this season don't think he will.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Wildey

Skullman wrote:Don't forget that the qualifiers have already passed for the World Open. The only top player to skip it was Ronnie.

yea i fell in to that trap forgetting the World Open qualifiers have been.


The Welsh Open is the interesting one.

Will Robbo give that a miss?

you would think as defending China Open Champion he would want to defend it.

The Gap between the China Open and the World this season for the top players is 12 days last season there was 19 days.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Holden Chinaski

Wildey wrote:Andre

What it proved was Ronnie is a extremely gifted and brilliant snooker player coupled with the fact he himself had no expectations it was a very dangerous combination "if i win fantastic if i don't well i haven't been playing much" not another single snooker player in history could have had a year out and win the World Championship no matter how fresh they were.

other players looked at Ronnie and thought if he wins it makes us look like mugs and the pressure on the top players to perform and put the part timer in his place was immense and Burn Out was a credible cop out rather than owning up they couldn't hack it..

Good post! I agree 100%

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby SnookerFan

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Wildey wrote:Andre

What it proved was Ronnie is a extremely gifted and brilliant snooker player coupled with the fact he himself had no expectations it was a very dangerous combination "if i win fantastic if i don't well i haven't been playing much" not another single snooker player in history could have had a year out and win the World Championship no matter how fresh they were.

other players looked at Ronnie and thought if he wins it makes us look like mugs and the pressure on the top players to perform and put the part timer in his place was immense and Burn Out was a credible cop out rather than owning up they couldn't hack it..

Good post! I agree 100%


Good point about the pressure being on the other players. The BBC mob didn't help. Rob Walker made the crowd count down from 10 to 1 before Ronnie was introduced because the BBC wanted a "countdown to Ronnie's return". :roll:

You're playing the most naturally gifted player of all time, it would be difficult to begin with. Add on the fact he's been out for a year, so you're expected to thrash him easily. Add on the fact the BBC are fanboying about him, without mentioning a good portion of the fans are. All eyes are on you, you're playing Ronnie and you're expected to win.

It would've made a hard opponent even more difficult to beat.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Holden Chinaski

SnookerFan wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Wildey wrote:Andre

What it proved was Ronnie is a extremely gifted and brilliant snooker player coupled with the fact he himself had no expectations it was a very dangerous combination "if i win fantastic if i don't well i haven't been playing much" not another single snooker player in history could have had a year out and win the World Championship no matter how fresh they were.

other players looked at Ronnie and thought if he wins it makes us look like mugs and the pressure on the top players to perform and put the part timer in his place was immense and Burn Out was a credible cop out rather than owning up they couldn't hack it..

Good post! I agree 100%


Good point about the pressure being on the other players. The BBC mob didn't help. Rob Walker made the crowd count down from 10 to 1 before Ronnie was introduced because the BBC wanted a "countdown to Ronnie's return". :roll:

You're playing the most naturally gifted player of all time, it would be difficult to begin with. Add on the fact he's been out for a year, so you're expected to thrash him easily. Add on the fact the BBC are fanboying about him, without mentioning a good portion of the fans are. All eyes are on you, you're playing Ronnie and you're expected to win.

It would've made a hard opponent even more difficult to beat.

Maybe, but I think Ronnie was under a lot of pressure as well. I don't buy he was just giving it a go and see what happens. I think he was under a lot of pressure. I mean, here you are, 38 years old, haven't played competitive for almost a year, come back for the worlds, the bbc calling you the greatest, the press focusing on you, the crowd going mad, haters saying he wont be able to do it... he must have been under great pressure.

Anyway, if you cant handle the pressure at the worlds, you're just not good enough.

Ronnie should be under more pressure than the other players, because everyone expects him to play like a genius. Must be hard to live up to the expectations.

I think it's easier to be an underdog.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Wildey

Holden Chinaski wrote:I was just browsing through some old threads from around the 2013 world chamionship and came upon an interesting post by Wildey:

 ▲▼WILDEY↓

Re: Crucible Countdown 2013

15 Apr 2013
"If Ronnie reaches the semi final ill dance naked through wales with a daffodil up my bottom and a rose in my mouth."

So, did you have fun doing this Wildey? Or are you not a man of your word? You should learn to never underestimate the great O'Sullivan...

rofl rofl

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby SnookerFan

Wildey wrote:Whats diminishing is Telling players "The reason you beat me is because i was knackered"

What im saying is some performances were bad from players but it was not Burn Out.

Was Selby still Burnt out when he didn't qualify for Wuxi? or its just one of those things Shock Results happen for all different reasons and Barry Hearn has Created a excuse they can use backed up by Snooker Fans as this thread proves.


Though Barry Hearn has himself claimed he has no time for this sort of talk.

I'm like you. A few years back, players were complaining that they felt like part-time players. So now complaining that they suffer from burnout seems like just another whinge. Especially when it's the same for all other players on the tour.

Saying that, I do believe there is a balance. World travelling must take it's toll a little bit and there may be some hangover from winning one tournament, and then flying out to another continent to play another tournament straight away.

Though world travel doesn't seem to be doing Ding much harm at the moment, does it? <laugh>

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:
Wildey wrote:Whats diminishing is Telling players "The reason you beat me is because i was knackered"

What im saying is some performances were bad from players but it was not Burn Out.

Was Selby still Burnt out when he didn't qualify for Wuxi? or its just one of those things Shock Results happen for all different reasons and Barry Hearn has Created a excuse they can use backed up by Snooker Fans as this thread proves.


Though Barry Hearn has himself claimed he has no time for this sort of talk.

I'm like you. A few years back, players were complaining that they felt like part-time players. So now complaining that they suffer from burnout seems like just another whinge. Especially when it's the same for all other players on the tour.

Saying that, I do believe there is a balance. World travelling must take it's toll a little bit and there may be some hangover from winning one tournament, and then flying out to another continent to play another tournament straight away.

Though world travel doesn't seem to be doing Ding much harm at the moment, does it? <laugh>

i agree BUT there was a 3 week break before the World Championship started Last year and 2 Weeks this season if your a top 16 player. If that's not more than enough time to recover for the Big one then im sorry but they are in the wrong business.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby SnookerFan

Wildey wrote:i agree BUT there was a 3 week break before the World Championship started Last year and 2 Weeks this season if your a top 16 player. If that's not more than enough time to recover for the Big one then im sorry but they are in the wrong business.


Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Re: Should the top players skip an event pre worlds ?

Postby Witz78

Funny how you didn't hear any of the guys who had just played gruelling qualifiers days before the start of last years Worlds complaining about burnout even though their seeded opponents were "rested" before the start of the tournament proper.