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Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Witz78

While since ive posted a thread on here, but one thing ive heard and read a lot lately is that Ronnie is in a great mental place now compared to the past when he undoubtedly "lost the plot" and gifted matches to opponents through losing focus, interest, concentration and effort.

So, what games fall into this bracket.

Heres a few that come into my head instantly. Do you agree / disagree? What other games would you class in this category?

2005 World Champs Quarter v Ebdon, The classic example

UK Champs v Bingham. 6-4 up but not all there, then lost 5 on the spin

UK Champs v Perry. 5-2 up then capitulated, conceding a frame with about 100 points left and losing 7 frames on the spin

World Champs 2006 semi v Dott. Taking nothing away from Graeme, he undoubtedly got under Ronnies skin and it all came to a head during that 3rd session when Ronnie lost 8-0.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Sickpotter

Surprised you didn't include his walkout on Hendry after falling 4-0 adrift, serious mental break that one.

I believe that was a UK championship as well....must be something with that time of year that puts Ronnie off. :chin:

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby PLtheRef

Sickpotter wrote:Quarter final of 2006 UK......UK seems to feature in several of his meltdowns, wonder if there's anything to that....


Didn't he also pull out of a defence of a UK Championship once? 1990s time?

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Andre147

You also forgetting a classic one... funnily enough at the UK Champs too rofl His 2005 first round against King... sat in his chair for most of the match with a towel over his head.

Image

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Cannonball

If he'd opened his mind to getting help from the likes of Steve Peters years ago, he'd already be in double WC figures. He hasn't just blown trophies, he's blown a lot of centuries and maximums as well. If he'd been more stable for all of his life, the records would be near untouchable. A thousand centuries, two dozen 147s maybe?

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Andre147

Trumpster wrote:If he'd opened his mind to getting help from the likes of Steve Peters years ago, he'd already be in double WC figures. He hasn't just blown trophies, he's blown a lot of centuries and maximums as well. If he'd been more stable for all of his life, the records would be near untouchable. A thousand centuries, two dozen 147s maybe?


The only downside to that is that if it happened years ago it wouldn't be the Ronnie O'Sullivan we all know, would very much be more like a winning machine like Hendry. I won't say the majority of his losses in the past were simply due to his head being gone, as I think that is disrespectful to his opponents and most of the opponents who did beat him fully deserved their victories and were better than him, simple as that.

Some often tend to say that most of Ronnie's losses are because his head his gone but don't aknowledge that Ronnie too can have a day off, like everyone else does. But of course there have been indeed some losses that the Major factor was in Ronnie's head, particularly some of those already mentioned in here.

As to what you said, if his head and life had been stable years ago he would certainly have won more by now no doubt, won't say double WC figures but he'd already be on 7 or 8 I think.

Still, Ronnie doesn't have to prove nothing else anymore, of course the titles he gets nowadays are very much welcome, but he's already proven years ago he's one of the best ever, and certainly is the best in terms of natural ability because the man's a genious and was born to play snooker, simple as that.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Cannonball

Andre147 PGC wrote:You also forgetting a classic one... funnily enough at the UK Champs too rofl His 2005 first round against King... sat in his chair for most of the match with a towel over his head.

Image


What's he thinking? snooker, bloody snooker!

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Cannonball

Andre147 PGC wrote:
Trumpster wrote:If he'd opened his mind to getting help from the likes of Steve Peters years ago, he'd already be in double WC figures. He hasn't just blown trophies, he's blown a lot of centuries and maximums as well. If he'd been more stable for all of his life, the records would be near untouchable. A thousand centuries, two dozen 147s maybe?


The only downside to that is that if it happened years ago it wouldn't be the Ronnie O'Sullivan we all know, would very much be more like a winning machine like Hendry. I won't say the majority of his losses in the past were simply due to his head being gone, as I think that is disrespectful to his opponents and most of the opponents who did beat him fully deserved their victories and were better than him, simple as that.

Some often tend to say that most of Ronnie's losses are because his head his gone but don't aknowledge that Ronnie too can have a day off, like everyone else does. But of course there have been indeed some losses that the Major factor was in Ronnie's head, particularly some of those already mentioned in here.

As to what you said, if his head and life had been stable years ago he would certainly have won more by now no doubt, won't say double WC figures but he'd already be on 7 or 8 I think.

Still, Ronnie doesn't have to prove nothing else anymore, of course the titles he gets nowadays are very much welcome, but he's already proven years ago he's one of the best ever, and certainly is the best in terms of natural ability because the man's a genious and was born to play snooker, simple as that.


The personal troubles in his mind, the trouble his dad was in for a very long time, and just the fact he has a bit of personality and sees running as his main aim, and snooker as his part-time job (as he said in interview) make him an enigma that draws the fans even closer. That he can overcome these hurdles and return close to the form of yesteryear only increases the admiration from fans. He's just like us, he doesn't lead a perfect, or untroubled life, and like the Hurricane, ordinary people connect with him; he is the people's champion on a global scale. No-one knows what Ronnie will do next, or which tournament he will be in for sure and if he is there, what will he play like? No-one can predict this, but whatever it is, it's gonna be emotional, edge of the seat stuff. In a sport of robots, this guy is keeping A N T I snooker at bay.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby TheRocket

Andre already hinted at a good point which I've just wanted to particularize here.

I mean, just imagine for a moment if Ronnie would have been a real winning machine in his career, destroying everyone and winning titles over titles like Hendry and Davis did all the time. If this was the case, he never would be the person and character he is today.

His two faces if you like or the fine line between genius and insane. No one represents this line better than Ronnie O'Sullivan, probably in any sport in this world. And that's why so many people support this man. Therefore I can even laugh about the picture with the towel over his head.

One the one hand it annoys me too see that Ronnie probably would have won more titles, even 8 world titles maybe, had he started working with Peters 15 or 20 years ago. But on the other hand I mean, he still won and achieved everything, 25 ranking titles and 25 non rankers, he won the World 5 times, UK 4 times, Masters 5 times, more than 700 centuries, 11 maximum breaks and he did the last pending thing. Defending the World Championship.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Snooker Overdrive

I think it's pointless to talk about what would or could have happened if Ronnie had been seeing someone like Dr Peters a lot earlier. It is how it is and nothing will change what happened.

The thing I'm interested in is, how many more titles can Ronnie win and which records is he still able to beat?

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Andre147

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I think it's pointless to talk about what would or could have happened if Ronnie had been seeing someone like Dr Peters a lot earlier. It is how it is and nothing will change what happened.

The thing I'm interested in is, how many more titles can Ronnie win and which records is he still able to beat?


Well said SO, what matters is the present and not the "ifs" and "shoulds", though no one can argue that if he had his head stable more time ago he would have been more sucessful no doubt.

But yeah what matters now is how long can he stay on top of his game and which records he'll beat when he definately puts the cue away from professional competition.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby vodkadiet

The 2 defeats to Terry Murphy in the 96/97 season were down to his mental state. There is now way he would have lost those matches otherwise.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby SnookerFan

I'm beginning to wonder if the majority of matches that Ronnie has lost have been down to him, rather than his opponent. Though it's stating the obvious, when he's on his A game very few can beat him. If anybody.

For example, it was scary how easily he beat Mark Selby on Sunday night. Previously I'd have Mark down as one of the few players who could beat Ronnie, even if Ronnie was at his best. But that was a thrashing. It'll be interesting to see how Selby does the next time they play. Though Ronnie's sublime skill has always been obvious

You've got to wonder how many times Ronnie has lost is because he just didn't feel like it. It's more obvious in some matches, like when he had a towel on his head etc. But you wonder how many times he didn't feel like it, but didn't show it in such a blatant way.

After John Higgins got thrashed by Ronnie in the final of The Masters that year, he came back and beat Ronnie when almost at his best. So, I guess it's possible.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Wildey

A Lot of times Ronnie has lost hes been on his A Game but someone has managed to get under his skin a Selby or a Ebdon.

if a Player manages to do that it shows weakness and nothing has changed its Just players are failing to do that.

take Sunday Selby didn't really attempt to do that for what ever reason and he was very attacking at times and it came unstuck because they weren't going in.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Holden Chinaski

Wildey wrote:A Lot of times Ronnie has lost hes been on his A Game but someone has managed to get under his skin a Selby or a Ebdon.

if a Player manages to do that it shows weakness and nothing has changed its Just players are failing to do that.

take Sunday Selby didn't really attempt to do that for what ever reason and he was very attacking at times and it came unstuck because they weren't going in.

Nonsense. Ronnie is so much stronger now mentally. In the masters final he started playing perfect snooker right from the start and looked in the zone and confident. Selby felt this and couldn't handle the pressure. He knew any misstake would be end of frame, and that was too much for him. Selby is good but he's no John Higgins or Stephen Hendry.

The truth is Ronnie lost a lot of matches in the past because he was mentally weak. Since he worked with dr Steve Peters he's won two world championships, the champion of champions event and the masters.

At 38 years of age, its obvious he's still the best player out there. He played perfect snooker against Selby and stayed focused troughout the match, this was more than Selby could handle. Players are not playing good against this new mentally strong Ronnie, because they know every misstake will be punished by the greatest player out there, and they cant handle it. The man is just too good, he's done enough to prove this.

Like Stephen Hendry said during the masters final: "I think Ronnie is trying to prove a point here today. That he's the best player in the world".

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby edwards2000

Wildey wrote:
take Sunday Selby didn't really attempt to do that for what ever reason and he was very attacking at times and it came unstuck because they weren't going in.


What exactly does it say about a player when he has to virtually break rules to beat an opponent? The result may be a win, but it's a very hollow one. In any case, I agree with the chap above, what you just said is just making a fat excuse. Ronnie didn't allow Selby to get going. Ronnie at his best is near unplayable, and Selby is not Higgins or Hendry or Williams.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby SnookerFan

At the same time, it wasn't that long a go that he lost in the German Qualifying by almost playing badly on purpose. So, though he's looked more mentally strong since Sheffield last year, it's not all completely behind him.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Wildey

edwards2000 wrote:
Wildey wrote:
take Sunday Selby didn't really attempt to do that for what ever reason and he was very attacking at times and it came unstuck because they weren't going in.


What exactly does it say about a player when he has to virtually break rules to beat an opponent? The result may be a win, but it's a very hollow one. In any case, I agree with the chap above, what you just said is just making a fat excuse. Ronnie didn't allow Selby to get going. Ronnie at his best is near unplayable, and Selby is not Higgins or Hendry or Williams.

its not breaking rules its bending them if at all and it says hes a Professional Snooker Player.

it doesn't matter how you win just win anything at all goes in my book to win a match its just pointless playing how a player wants you or expects you to play.

Sport is all about gaining a advantage to secure a Win.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby SnookerFan

edwards2000 wrote:What exactly does it say about a player when he has to virtually break rules to beat an opponent? The result may be a win, but it's a very hollow one. In any case, I agree with the chap above, what you just said is just making a fat excuse. Ronnie didn't allow Selby to get going. Ronnie at his best is near unplayable, and Selby is not Higgins or Hendry or Williams.


Selby's style is just naturally slower than Ronnies, and he has admitted himself that he needs to try harder as he's not as naturally talented.

Selby is not breaking the rules if he plays shots slower than Ronnie, or if he plays a more safety-first game. That's just the way he plays. If an opponent doesn't like that style of play, that isn't Selby's problem. What's he supposed to do? Change his natural game to maximise his opponents chances of winning? That's just silly.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Cannonball

The thing is, the player has the right to take as long as is necessary, and the ref has the duty to ensure that the game doesn't get abused by those using desperate tactics to make up for desperate snooker. I know an international ref who reffed the likes of the Hurricane (who he described as a nightmare), Jimmy, Ronnie, etc. He never once had to tell this lot to speed up. But he's had to tell a few in our local league to pack it in. We all know that complex shots, getting out of snookers takes a bit of extra time. This is why former players need to train to become refs because they know how much reasonable time a shot takes. Pro players have all hit 147s in minutes, if only in practice in some cases. Taking more than a minute to play a pot is beyond a joke and refs need to stamp it out by first warning (maybe two warnings per match?) then calling foul. Are players doing it cheating? Yes they are; they're seeking an unfair advantage. It's conduct likely to bring the game into disrepute and is cheating by definition.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Skullman

Some players have more talent than others. I think that we should stamp it out before the public find out and we have a scandal on our hands. It could bring the game into disrepute.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby edwards2000

Skullman wrote:Some players have more talent than others. I think that we should stamp it out before the public find out and we have a scandal on our hands. It could bring the game into disrepute.


That isn't comparable. Snooker does have a time rule, the problem is, it is not being enforced or properly governed. There is no rule for playing fast, just excessively slow. And rightly so. Any idiot can do it.

The thing is, Selby's tactic is now a blunt tool against Ronnie 3.0. Also, the end result is that it makes you hated by a lot of people.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby edwards2000

Wildey wrote:its not a blunt tool because Selby did not try that tactic in the Masters Final.


He didn't get chance to, and it wouldn't have worked. I sense this fact disturbs you, because you continually seem to ignore the fact that Ronnie did not allow Selby to get going?\

Ronnie has been more composed than ever. Selby got beat by a genius, and that's something you should just accept. I didn't hear Selby making any of those silly excuses.

Before the match, too many were writing Ronnie off and claiming he had a mental block against Selby. I am pretty sure you'd have been one of those saying Ronnie was going to lose or get a good match, but when he blew him away, your response is to simply dispense with reality.

Re: Games Ronnie has mentally lost down the years

Postby Wildey

edwards2000 wrote:
Wildey wrote:its not a blunt tool because Selby did not try that tactic in the Masters Final.


He didn't get chance to, and it wouldn't have worked. I sense this fact disturbs you, because you continually seem to ignore the fact that Ronnie did not allow Selby to get going?\

Ronnie has been more composed than ever. Selby got beat by a genius, and that's something you should just accept. I didn't hear Selby making any of those silly excuses.

Selby wasent playing well enough all season to do it effectively......

I Said earlier that event Neil Robertson was the only player capable of beating Ronnie playing like he was and i stand by that Selby just wasent at the races and Maguire is mentally weak against Ronnie