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My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

My proposed Rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY
[Rough Draft]
My purpose is to make Snooker MORE difficult and FORCE the players to MAKE SHOTS & SCORE points. Stop all of the hiding behind the Yellow, Green, & Brown balls and the head rail.

Make every shot count. It is possible to score more points, win one less frame and LOSE a title. That should never be.

1. One safety per rack.
2. A shot clock - 30 secs. per-shot.
3. Match time, seven hours tops. 11 minutes per rack/frame
4. Elimination of "Frames"
5. Use of points total to determine the winner: 1,500 points wins the title. 35 racks/frames x 42 minimum
point value for a rack = 1470. Play will continue until 1,500 points have been scored by one player and
all balls from the last rack have been cleared from the table. The competitors will play four sessions of
375 points per session.
6. When the striker has the cue ball in hand the player may place the cue ball anywhere on or behind the
Baulk-line.
7. Once a ball is pocketed it STAYS OFF the table until the next rack.
8. And to forestall tactical "misses" if in the opinion of the ref a player has failed to make an HONEST effort
to POCKET a called object ball in an attempt to hide the cue ball behind a red ball or the baulk-line or a
Yellow, Green, or Brown ball and or near ANY rail, it is a FOUL, and the player will be assessed a 15-point
penalty for every violation, and the opponent will take the cueball in hand and may place the cue ball any-
where on or behind the Baulk-line.
9. All shots MUST be called.
The player is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are
not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant.
Only one ball may be called on each shot. For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the
intended shot was made, so if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination, and similar shots,
the shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played,
he may ask for a call. The shooter may choose to call “safety” instead of a ball and pocket, and then play passes
to the opponent at the end of the shot.
10. The Rack:
For the opening break shot, the pink is spotted on the Pyramid Spot. The apex ball of the triangle of reds is
racked as close as possible to the pink without touching it. The fifteen red balls are racked in a triangle with
the apex ball on the foot spot. When the balls are re-racked, the apex ball is omitted if only fourteen balls are
being racked.The marked outline of the triangle will be used to determine whether an intended break ball is
in the rack area.
11. The following rules apply to the opening break shot:
(a) The cue ball begins in hand behind the Baulk-line.
(b) If no called ball is pocketed, the cue ball and three red balls must each be driven to a rail or the shot is a
breaking foul. This is penalized by subtracting four points from the breaker’s score. The non-breaking
player may accept the balls in position or may require the breaker to play another opening break shot,
until the player satisfies the requirements for an opening break or the non-shooting player accepts the
table in position.
12. Continuing Play and Winning the Game:
The player remains at the table as long as the player can continue to legally pocket called balls or wins the
game by scoring the required number of points. When fourteen red balls and all colored balls from a rack
have been legally pocketed, play is suspended until the balls are re-racked.
13. One red ball will remain on the table as a break ball.
14. Play shall be continuous in that after fourteen red and all colored balls are pocketed, they are re-racked
and the shooter continues.
15. The player will pocket the break ball while attempting to open the 14 racked red balls to create the next
shot and to continue play.
16. ALL red balls must be pocketed FIRST.
17. ALL colored balls must be pocketed in NUMERICAL order. Yellow, Green, Brown, Blue, Pink, Black. The
player will leave one red ball as a break ball in an area of their choosing. The cueball will remain in position
and the player will then attempt to pocket the color balls in NUMERICAL order. Yellow, Green, Brown, Blue,
Pink, Black. In your opinion, what would make the game more difficult, leaving the colored balls in position
after 14 of the red balls have been pocketed OR respot ALL of the colored balls on their respective spots on
the table AFTER 14 of the red balls have been pocketed?

Points: all non-banked red balls count as one point. All non-banked colored balls retain their base value. The
opening rack is worth 41 points. Each subsequent rack is worth 41 points. 14 red balls = 14 points & 6 colored
balls = 27 points.

Remember, one RED ball must remain as a break ball after the opening break.

18. Serious Fouls
Three Consecutive Fouls, only standard fouls are counted, so a breaking foul does not count under the three
foul rule. Four points is subtracted for the third foul as usual, and then an additional 150 point penalty is sub-
tracted and the offending player’s consecutive foul count is reset to zero. All colored and red balls are re-
racked and the offending player is required to shoot under the requirements of the opening break.

Unsportsmanlike Conduct, the referee will choose a penalty depending on the nature of the offense.

Three Consecutive Fouls:

If a player fouls three times without making an intervening legal shot, it is a serious foul. The three fouls must
occur in a single rack. The referee must warn a shooter who is on two fouls when he comes to the table that
he is on two fouls. Otherwise a possible third foul will be considered to be only the second.

A fantasy change:

Another change that I think might be interesting, power snooker uses a clock and a player can score
extra points while the clock is running. To promote SHOTMAKING and an ATTACKING snooker, I propose
that bank shots where an object ball contacts one or more cushions receive extra points. In addition, details
of the shot, such as the number of cushions struck, other balls contacted, the intended pocket MUST be
called before the shot is taken.

For example, when a [RED OR COLORED] object ball strikes the LONG or SIDE rail ONCE and then are poc-
keted into a SIDE or CORNER pocket count double. A bank shot where an object ball crosses the baulk-line
once and strikes the LONG or SIDE rail ONCE and then crosses the foot string once and then are pocketed
into a CORNER pocket counts two and a half times [2.5 multiplier - a black or 7 ball x 2.5 = 17.5 points.] A
banked object ball that travels the length of the table twice where the object ball crosses the baulkline/foot
string and then strikes the HEAD/FOOT rail ONCE and then crosses the baulk-line/foot string once and then
is pocketed into a CORNER pocket counts triple.

A banked object ball that travels the length of the table three times where the object ball crosses the baulk-
line/foot string once and then strikes the HEAD FOOT rail ONCE and then crosses the baulk-line/foot string
again and then strikes the HEAD/FOOT RAIL again and then is pocketed into a CORNER pocket counts quad-
ruple. All five rail bank shots with the cue or object ball count as quintuple points.

However, IF the proposed changes for bank shots are included, you might be able to score 147 points ONCE
in a LIFETIME. But I can gurantee you, that The Rocket MIGHT have ONE 147 point frame to his credit under
THESE rules. If a player sank every ball on the table under the 4x multiplier, you would score 164 points. And
that is IMPOSSIBILE. "Centuries" will prove FAR more difficult. The most likely scenario to score a "century"
would be one point red balls, 5 two point red balls, & ALL colored ball would have to be banked in LENGTH-
WISE at a minimum. Thus: 9 x 1 = 9 + 5 x 2 = 10 + 27 x 3 = 81 = 100. How's that for a "century"?

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby roy142857

Well welcome aboard Mr Cam.

So pool with snooker balls/table? Perhaps we'll call your new sport 'Super Pool'? Snooker it's not.

Don't know if you're aware that snooker pockets are narrower and have a different pocket 'lead-in' (Think that's the right term!) compared to pool? Not sure, but I've been told snooker tables in the US tend to be the same height as pool tables, whereas snooker tables would normally be a couple of inches higher.

Hope that if you see some more snooker you'll come to appreciate the safety play ...

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

roy142857 wrote:Well welcome aboard Mr Cam.

So pool with snooker balls/table? Perhaps we'll call your new sport 'Super Pool'? Snooker it's not.

Don't know if you're aware that snooker pockets are narrower and have a different pocket 'lead-in' (Think that's the right term!) compared to pool? Not sure, but I've been told snooker tables in the US tend to be the same height as pool tables, whereas snooker tables would normally be a couple of inches higher.

Hope that if you see some more snooker you'll come to appreciate the safety play ...


Assumption number one "Snooker it's not." which leads to this: Next time, ask first, never assume anything, it

makes an A-R-S-E out of the assumer.

Where in my post did I mention anything about a change in equipment?

I'll give YOU an example, without going to the Brunswick website. From 1900 through 1920, what were the two

thicknesses of slate that you could order for your Brunswick table? What type of tables did they offer?

Aramith produces a set of snooker balls for Tournement play, without going to the Aramith website,what

is their weight variance spec. in grams? Again, without using the internet or consulting your rules book, what is

the diameter of a U.K. spec snooker ball in decimal inches to the fourth place?

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Casey

You have put alot of thought into your proposed rule changes Mr Cam, so fair play to you on that. However, the game is experiencing unprecedented growth in Europe and Asia and I don't think there is a need to dumb down the game to hash a few balls about. Good safety is an art form, limiting safety shots to one per frame would be an abomination.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Roland

To put it in context, this is a pool fan from USA coming across snooker and giving his initial perceptions from his viewpoint based on the way he knows cuesports to be played. It's pretty fascinating actually.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Sickpotter

Mr Cam wrote:
roy142857 wrote:Well welcome aboard Mr Cam.

So pool with snooker balls/table? Perhaps we'll call your new sport 'Super Pool'? Snooker it's not.

Don't know if you're aware that snooker pockets are narrower and have a different pocket 'lead-in' (Think that's the right term!) compared to pool? Not sure, but I've been told snooker tables in the US tend to be the same height as pool tables, whereas snooker tables would normally be a couple of inches higher.

Hope that if you see some more snooker you'll come to appreciate the safety play ...


Assumption number one "Snooker it's not." which leads to this: Next time, ask first, never assume anything, it

makes an A-R-S-E out of the assumer.

Where in my post did I mention anything about a change in equipment?

I'll give YOU an example, without going to the Brunswick website. From 1900 through 1920, what were the two

thicknesses of slate that you could order for your Brunswick table? What type of tables did they offer?

Aramith produces a set of snooker balls for Tournement play, without going to the Aramith website,what

is their weight variance spec. in grams? Again, without using the internet or consulting your rules book, what is

the diameter of a U.K. spec snooker ball in decimal inches to the fourth place?



Not going to make any friends on this board and won't be allowed to stay if you're going to act like a douche :no:

Roy made no assumptions, he stated fact, the game you propose is not snooker.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

Sonny wrote:To put it in context, this is a pool fan from USA coming across snooker and giving his initial perceptions from his viewpoint based on the way he knows cuesports to be played. It's pretty fascinating actually.


Not a pool fan, but a 14.1 fan only. The only "pocket billards" game worth playing besides Snooker.

I issue the board this chalenge: Name the three most difficult games played on a billiard and or pocket billiard table.

Lets see what you a'll realy know about billiards and pocket billiards.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Sickpotter

Snooker, one pocket and 3 cushion billiards would be my picks.

Any particular reason behind this tangent?

You're new to the board, new to the sport but seem to be under the impression you know a whole lot about it. :shrug:

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

Sickpotter wrote:Snooker, one pocket and 3 cushion billiards would be my picks.

Any particular reason behind this tangent?

You're new to the board, new to the sport but seem to be under the impression you know a whole lot about it. :shrug:


Dear Mr. Sickpotter

Let me clarify the terms that I am using. Pocket Billiards = One Pocket, Snooker, Eight Ball, Nine Ball

etc. Billiards/Caroms = Three cushion and the rest of the Billiards games played on a Billiard table without

pockets. Again, without using the internet or consulting your rules book, what is 18.2? And sorry, one pocket

IS not one of the three most difficult pocket billiard games. However, you left out the other most difficult

POCKET BILLIARDS game.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Sickpotter

So what are your 3?

Keep in mind that difficulty is subjective to a great extent, there is no right answer.

Without internet or consulting rule book.....what is 18.2? Relevance to the discussion? This line on equipment seems a little off topic....

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

Sickpotter wrote:So what are your 3?

Keep in mind that difficulty is subjective to a great extent, there is no right answer. Without

internet or consulting rule book.....what is 18.2? Relevance to the discussion? This line on

equipment seems a little off topic....


1. Carom/Billiards

In Billiards, 18.2 is THEE most difficult followed by the three cushion and One Rail.

2. In Pocket Billiards, Snooker/14.1, pick your poisin.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

Ayrshirebhoy wrote:Can't imagine players or fans would like to see EVERY single shot called. Also not allowing

snookers in a game of snooker is pretty weird.


Awa, but that is where you are WRONG. If YOU the player are GOOD enough, you can create your

OWN Snooker through YOUR SKILL. The OFFICAL RULES of Snooker state this:

(e) A tactic employed at any time during a frame is to leave the cue-ball behind a ball not on such that it is
snookered for the next player. If a player or side is more points behind than are available from the balls
left on the table, then the laying of snookers in the hope of gaining points from fouls becomes most
important.

When you have a CONTINUOUS game of Snooker, every shot counts. When you eliminate "snookers" it is

up to you, the player, to replace it with your ability to control the cue ball, see patterns, set-up your break

ball, create and make shots that no one else can see much less pull off. Now that the players no longer

have "snookers" to hide behind, they must have the ability to make shot after shot after shot from rack to

rack to rack. It is the employment of TOTAL table managment that will enable the SUPERIOR player to run

from three to seven CONTINUOUS racks. NO better "snooker" exists than to keep your opponent parked

at his chair. What better "snooker" could there be than to end the first session at 375 to 0 [NIL]? Do you

really believe that ANY ONE on this board would not PAY to see someone in a Crucible Final run 150 balls?

Can ANY one here honestly say that they would rather see or score themselves ONE 147 point frame or

RUN 147 BALLS in a Crucible Final?

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Sickpotter

You have some interesting ideas but what you're really pushing for is like 14:1 on a snooker table, not snooker.

There are a few major issues with your proposed rules, the biggest being that in many (if not most) circumstances they encourage/force poor play. :td:

If snooker doesn't move quick enough for you stick with the little tables instead of trying to re-tool the greatest of cue sports. If you don't appreciate a good tactical battle snooker isn't for you.

Honestly it never ceases to amaze me how someone can think they know best as far as what the rules should be, especially with very limited exposure to the game.

The professionals aren't suggesting/supporting any changes (aside from maybe the miss rule) but you know better? <doh>

Rather than try to change snooker you should just work towards inventing your own cue sport to be played on snooker tables. Your proposed game looks like it has some entertainment potential but it isn't and never will be snooker. <ok>

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

". . . little tables instead of trying to re-tool the greatest of cue sports."

Typical Brit ARROGANCE and STUPIDITY on Display.

Snooker, basically the only billiard pocket or carrom game the Brits know

how to play. And when I say, know how to play, I mean produce World

Champions. And why am I not surprised you have FAILED to answer my

question as to what is 18.2. Again more of your arrogance, IGNORANCE,

and STUPIDITY. You have that provichial Pax Britanica that feels all must

hail and bow down to Snooker. When it comes to Pocket Billiards & Carroms,

you do not know enough to to fill one cubic micron. I give you a name,

Raymond Ceulemans, who is he? No running to your friends, internet, or

your books. It is very obvious to me that you live in a very insular world

where only snooker exists. And you have a giant chip on your shoulder.

And NEVER forget this: IN the end, SNOOKER, like all pocket billiards games

is about ONE thing and one thing ONLY, SINKING BALLS in the pocket. If a

player cannot do that, they are WORTHLESS.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Sickpotter

Mr Cam wrote:". . . little tables instead of trying to re-tool the greatest of cue sports."

Typical Brit ARROGANCE and STUPIDITY on Display.

Snooker, basically the only billiard pocket or carrom game the Brits know

how to play. And when I say, know how to play, I mean produce World

Champions. And why am I not surprised you have FAILED to answer my

question as to what is 18.2. Again more of your arrogance, IGNORANCE,

and STUPIDITY. You have that provichial Pax Britanica that feels all must

hail and bow down to Snooker. When it comes to Pocket Billiards & Carroms,

you do not know enough to to fill one cubic micron. I give you a name,

Raymond Ceulemans, who is he? No running to your friends, internet, or

your books. It is very obvious to me that you live in a very insular world

where only snooker exists. And you have a giant chip on your shoulder.

And NEVER forget this: IN the end, SNOOKER, like all pocket billiards games

is about ONE thing and one thing ONLY, SINKING BALLS in the pocket. If a

player cannot do that, they are WORTHLESS.


One and only warning, be polite or be removed. :hatoff:

You think you know better than the players who play this game at a professional level and you call me arrogant? pmsl

BTW, I'm not British so your whole rant about "arrogant Brits" is really just clueless rambling.

It may surprise you but I have good friends/playing partners who are professional players including former world 9 ball champion Alex Pagulyan and former snooker WC Cliff Thorburn.

I've played with them, know them personally and learn from them. I have no idea who this Raymond C is, do you know him or are you just firing off a name of a player in a sport I don't follow?

I've played almost every variation of cue sport with the exception of carom/3 cushion billiards which don't entertain me. I appreciate the skill but I don't like the game.

I have 30+ years of playing said variations and have yet to find one as challenging as snooker.

You have yet to mention anything regarding your skill level. Care to offer any information that might allow us to believe you're posting from actual first hand knowledge or ability?

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

"BTW, I'm not British so your whole rant about "arrogant Brits" is really just clueless rambling."

Its called Anglophilia

"I have 30+ years of playing said variations and have yet to find one as challenging as snooker."

Your opinion and your opinion alone. It is an assertion, not a fact.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Sickpotter

Mr Cam wrote:"BTW, I'm not British so your whole rant about "arrogant Brits" is really just clueless rambling."

Its called Anglophilia

"I have 30+ years of playing said variations and have yet to find one as challenging as snooker."

Your opinion and your opinion alone. It is an assertion, not a fact.


Correct, it is my opinion and as luck would have it, it happens to be shared by every cue sport professional I've had the pleasure to know.

So far all you've posted is your opinion with nothing to support why your opinion should carry any weight.

What kind of playing experience do you have? Have you ever played competitively? Do you regularly play with anyone of note?

You appear out of nowhere on a snooker chat board, tell people your only exposure to the game is having watched the last WC final and then proceed to tell us that you know how the game should be played.

pmsl

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

Since you are sooo good. Come to the US of A and clean house. Simple really.

You can win the 14.1 U.S. Open on consecutive 150 and out runs from the break.

Then you can enter and win the World 14.1 Title on consecutive 150 and out runs

from the break.

After you do that, you can go to NYC and take all the money from those poor back-

wards Americans that play that simple game called 14.1. Why, you could become a

rich and famous man even. Then the BCA will have NO choice but to induct you into

their Hall of Fame. Why, they will even have to throw out ALL the previous inductees

and we can have a solid Gold statute to celebrate your greatness. We will have to bow

down and worship you for the pocket billiard deity that you are.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Wildey

Mr Cam

you come on here and try to change a 90 year old game to something its not.

How do you think people like Sickpotter will react to that hes played snooker at a highish level in Canada for years and knows Most Cue Sports because hes played Most of them in his time.

Snooker is not Pool and never will be.

im not going to pretend i know much about all the variations of cue sports. Each and every one is different so if you cant respect snooker as the game it is and always has been why should others respect pool or variations of pool.

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Sickpotter

Mr Cam wrote:Since you are sooo good. Come to the US of A and clean house. Simple really.

You can win the 14.1 U.S. Open on consecutive 150 and out runs from the break.

Then you can enter and win the World 14.1 Title on consecutive 150 and out runs

from the break.

After you do that, you can go to NYC and take all the money from those poor back-

wards Americans that play that simple game called 14.1. Why, you could become a

rich and famous man even. Then the BCA will have NO choice but to induct you into

their Hall of Fame. Why, they will even have to throw out ALL the previous inductees

and we can have a solid Gold statute to celebrate your greatness. We will have to bow

down and worship you for the pocket billiard deity that you are.


Sarcasm, hallmark of British humor you Anglophile :john:

I never claimed greatness, just experience in the world of cue sports.

Again I ask, what claim to knowledge/experience do you have that makes anything you say worth listening to?

:weeds:

Re: My proposed rules changes for WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY

Postby Mr Cam

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=209914


11-19-2010, 02:48 PM

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On the surface it seems more difficult. But I don't think it even approaches snooker. It may be more challenging to pocket a ball, but if you notice the only potting angles they play are fairly straight. There is not as much positional play to worry about, especially when they are allowed to us any ball as the cb.

For me the toughest games, in no particular order are, Snooker, 14.1, 3 cushion and One Pocket. All of these games require an immense amount of knowledge and accuracy. Choosing one out of the three is impossible I think.

And I DID not write this post.