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Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

For the second time in just over 6 months snooker players will have a huge say on what direction the sport will take. Last time out Rodney Walker was ousted in favor of a love him or hate him character called Barry Hearn. What will Barry do for you? Well this may largely depend on your standing in the game, there is no doubt that the journeymen pros benefit from the current system, it gives them a level of protection that guarantees them a place on the tour and some 'pocket' money.

Hearn's plans are well documented, he wants to take this sport by the scruff of the neck and revitalize it, but of course this won't suit the all the players. People fear that if Hearn's plans are rejected that we could see a snooker revolution and his followers simply walking away with Barry to start off their own tour?

People have made comparisons with what happened to darts, but times have changed - here is why there will be no split

1. Broadcasters - The WPBSA currently have the BBC and eurosport on board and in contract. Now there is no way Barry could compete with that, when darts split he obtained Sky as a major broadcaster and was able to compete with the BDO in terms of coverage.
Sky have shown very little interest in big snooker events, they only seem interested in short events which they can control the length on frames.
There is no way Barry could get a World championship on another channel lasting anywhere near the length of the current one, when darts split Barry was able to set up majors with a similar format to the BDO Hearn will not be able to support a WC or UK style format.
He could probably get ITV4 on board for some tournaments but it wouldn't be enough to compete regardless of the players on board.

2. Players When there was threat of a split in the early 00's the players of influence or the players that attracted a TV and live audience are roughly still the same.

Ronnie
Higgins
Hendry

Today they are probably the big 3 in terms of attracting an audience, Mark Williams winning last week will have started to creep back up there. The big difference now is that these players are a lot older and don't have as long left in the game, if Ronnie and Higgins were to defect they would be turning 35 in the first new season, hardly a sound foundation on which to build a new tour.

I think it goes without saying that if Hearn were to breakaway he would need both Higgins and O'Sullivan to come on board, I don't believe that one would go without the other so If Ronnie decided to stay John would also and the other way around. So why at this late stage of their careers would they risk it? Surely they will want to try and get as much as they can whilst their limited number of years at the top permits them.

As for the rest of the players, Hard to know where they would go, they might publicly back Hearn for this proposal but that doesn’t mean they would risk everything by jumping ship.

Then of course there is the up and coming players, the PDC have always relied on the BDO to provide them with young talent, a new tour under Hearn would not guarantee new talent if the WPBSA collapsed. It is apparent to all that Hearn has not much interest in the armature game so if that aspect is not nurtured then a shortage of young new players could become a problem.

3. Money Whilst there are only 7 tournaments available at the minute, the prize money for the top 16 is not bad at all. It took Hearn years to build up and surpass the BDO in terms of prize money on offer, would the top players be willing to take a huge slash in wages for several years until the prize pots provide something similar to what there is today? As mentioned earlier, several of the top pros haven’t that many years left so IMO what would be the point.

Let’s hope Hearn’s plan is passed by the players and he can be let get on when introducing new tournaments that us snooker fans desperately want.

Thoughts?

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

case

if this proposal is rejected i dont think Ronnie,Higgins and co would want to be involved with a bunch of gutless moaners that wont do nothing to change their plight and a split will be inevitable.

i just hope they see sense and vote for it.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

Gutless maybe but its where the money is for them, Hearn couldn't offer that level for years to come. There is also the standing in the game to think about, say they won a world title with Hearn, how much value would that add. What would it really tell you?

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

case_master wc wrote:Gutless maybe but its where the money is for them, Hearn couldn't offer that level for years to come. There is also the standing in the game to think about, say they won a world title with Hearn, how much value would that add. What would it really tell you?


mate this is beyond money now its far worst than that ....The top players under walker could make a decent living trodging along with nothing much happening to inspire them...

they got ambition for themselfes and the sport if its a no they will say buck you im off.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

Off where?

£250k for the worlds £100k for the Uk, £150k for the Masters, 75k for the GP. Hearn could not offer that sort of dosh to the top boys, he might be able to offer a lot more low key playing opportunities for sure. However at this stage in their career they are only worried about the big ones and Hearn cant give them that on his own.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Monique

Well to start with, I don't think that if Barry Hearn's plans are rejected, the man himself will still be interested in snooker. So that would be the main reason IMO while there would be no split. However I'm not sure what will happen then. I have a guts feeling - and this is strictly my personal opinion based on nothing else than my personal feelings - that Ronnie could really call it a day, especially if doesn't have a good WC.

But supposing it would happen and the big names would follow BH (if not BH will not be interested neither), then I think WPBSA would very quickly find itself skint: I don't see them being able to retain sponsors and, as a consequence broadcasting, for long if their top draw players go. And thus the players who would have opted for it would find themselves jobless sooner than later.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

case_master wc wrote:Off where?

£250k for the worlds £100k for the Uk, £150k for the Masters, 75k for the GP. Hearn could not offer that sort of dosh to the top boys, he might be able to offer a lot more low key playing opportunities for sure. However at this stage in their career they are only worried about the big ones and Hearn cant give them that on his own.


as i say Hendry isnt backing Hearn because hes skint neither is Ronnie or Higgins.

if they go with hearn or the threat of they going do you think the money on offer would be £250,000 to see Barry Pinches winning the WC.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Tubberlad

Monique wrote:Well to start with, I don't think that if Barry Hearn's plans are rejected, the man himself will still be interested in snooker. So that would be the main reason IMO while there would be no split. However I'm not sure what will happen then. I have a guts feeling - and this is strictly my personal opinion based on nothing else than my personal feelings - that Ronnie could really call it a day, especially if doesn't have a good WC.

But supposing it would happen and the big names would follow BH (if not BH will not be interested neither), then I think WPBSA would very quickly find itself skint: I don't see them being able to retain sponsors and, as a consequence broadcasting, for long if their top draw players go. And thus the players who would have opted for it would find themselves jobless sooner than later.

O'Sullivan gone :huh: interesting. I'd hate to see that personally, but he's going to win the World Championship anyway so he'll be back <laugh>

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

I have a guts feeling - and this is strictly my personal opinion based on nothing else than my personal feelings - that Ronnie could really call it a day, especially if doesn't have a good WC.



:? :? I hope you are wrong Monique.

With regards to you other point, yes Hearn would have to pump in so much money to compete with the WPBSA that I don't think he will be interested.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Monique

case_master wc wrote:
I have a guts feeling - and this is strictly my personal opinion based on nothing else than my personal feelings - that Ronnie could really call it a day, especially if doesn't have a good WC.



:? :? I hope you are wrong Monique.

With regards to you other point, yes Hearn would have to pump in so much money to compete with the WPBSA that I don't think he will be interested.


I don't think it would be mainly about the money case, I think he would be of the opinion that if the snooker players don't see the benefits of his plan they are not worth the effort. And TBH I couldn't blame it if it happens.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

Ronnie is seriously disillusioned with the Sport and a no here would i believe also be the end of Ronnie as a WSA Player.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

I think most would agree for whichever reasons, that it would be a disaster if a split where to take place. :-(

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

case_master wc wrote:I think most would agree for whichever reasons, that it would be a disaster if a split where to take place. :-(


id hate it with a passion. a split = joke.

when that vote happens ill be praying it goes the right way.

ive been vocal in my disaproval of the threat of Barry but when you listen to what he sais its inspiering and if any player doesent vote yes then they dont deserve to be called a Snooker Players.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:If there is a split, Snooker Island will follow the split. <ok>


will the Ireland Split aswell <laugh>

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Witz78

Of course there could and probably will still be a split should Hearns proposals be voted out.

The parallels with the darts split of 94 are evident, and without boring you all here are the basics of that split and how snooker is so similar.

After years of disillusion due to dwindling prize money, lack of tv events and a general decline in the game, the elite darts players formed a union which eventually broke away to Hearns rival PDC tour after the BDO couldnt fulfill its false promises.

Among the 14 or 16 players who broke away were EVERY single former world champion of the sport, so immediately the BDO was a shadow of its former self as all the famous names, the Lowes, Bristows, Priestley, Taylors, Wilsons, Dellers - who the public were familiar with were gone.

With the obvious exception of Taylor most of these guys were past their peak but they saw it as their duty to try and take darts to a new level, even if the risk was that they all walked away from the established tour and tournaments to set up a rival tour from scratch which had no history or prestige...as yet.

If the same happened with snooker and the likes of Higgins, Ronnie, Hendry, Selby, Davis to name just a few were no longer playing in the WSA events then a lot of the public would soon either switch off or switch allegiances to the new tour as happened with the PDC.

Of course there would be a transitional period whilst the new tour found its feet, accquired sponsorship, tv exposure and a proper structure evolved. As with the PDC this took time and the first few years were relatively low key (though this was partly down to a lot less people having Sky Sports back in the mid 90s)


The BDO put on a brave act of defiance in these initial years of the PDC and as the old guard were gone, new stars began to emerge who the public became familiar with, however most of these would hang around for a few years then be poached or lured over to the ever expanding PDC where the guarantee of more money and tournaments was there.

As the PDC grew the BDO declined and after the PDC overtook the BDO the pendulum had fully swung and it grew from strength to strength whilst the BDO fizzled out to the feeder league it is now effectively plus a home for the few BDO diehards who refuse to move with the time like Adams, Hankey.

As far as i see it, if a snooker split happens a mirro image of this will happen. Yes it wont happen overnight but Hearn could instantly tie up contracts with Sky for tournaments featuring the elite breakaway players whilst at the same time, the WSA tour would gradually decline as the public would prefer to see the established big names on the breakaway tour. The BBC would cut their events if they saw that the players were now 2nd rate and youd eventually reach the point where the WSA would be like the BDO.

Another point ive thought about it the fact that in the darts split so many of the older big name players furthered their careers by breaking away as they were able to play well into their 40s and 50s. Take Taylor now for example, 50 year old (and unfit) in a sport where hand to eye co-ordination similar to snooker is required (?) yet he is still the dominant force. So many of the other top players are in ther 40s, so its also raises the issue that perhaps ultimately a split could prove a way for longevity in the careers of Ronnie, Higgins etc


Hopefully common sense prevails and Hearn can take the game the direction he wishes (onwards and upwards) with everyone united under the one governing body.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

As far as i see it, if a snooker split happens a mirro image of this will happen. Yes it wont happen overnight but Hearn could instantly tie up contracts with Sky for tournaments featuring the elite breakaway players whilst at the same time, the WSA tour would gradually decline as the public would prefer to see the established big names on the breakaway tour


Can't see that happening, Sky don't want proper events. One frame shoot outs and shot clocks is all they are interested in. Where will Hearn get the broadcasters from to form enough events? Eurosport and BBC are tied up, the players are cracking up at the little events there are...why would they move to a tour with less events that are only streamed online anyway?

Money for Hearn would be a big issue, the MATCHROOM PL prize fund decreased this year and it has the biggest names in the game there. The players won't give it all up for less money and stream only matches. If its a no then Hearn will go and someone else will come in, simple.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

case

Sky wants a big tournament ie a World Championship style event if theres a breakaway that will happen.

Sky fell out with the WSA because they put a bid for the WC and it failed despite being More than the BBC Offered.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

Wild Sky had a major in the British Open and they washed their hands of it. Maybe 8 or 9 years ago they wanted the Worlds but not any more. One frame shoot outs and shot clock league is all they want, which is fine but don't be kidding yourself that they are interested.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

case_master wc wrote:Wild Sky had a major in the British Open and they washed their hands of it. Maybe 8 or 9 years ago they wanted the Worlds but not any more. One frame shoot outs and shot clock league is all they want, which is fine but don't be kidding yourself that they are interested.


thats Why.

they made a bid For the World Championship and was Rejected thats Why they washed their hands of the British Open and everything to do with WSA Events.

at that time Barry Hearn couldnt put on Ranking Events so he developed the PL to it current format but now getting back involved on a Larger scale things are Different.

Sky will be interested in the WC Make no mistake about that.

theres this notion going around whitch is false Sky did not fall out of love with snooker they fell out with the WSA.

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Casey

Wild, how long has the PL been on Sky? early 90's? They were going to scap it (matchroom event remember) unless the format changed to shot clock, they don't want proper events.

If Hearn could get them to take events you would have seen them on his proposals. :huh2:

Re: Why there won’t be a split!

Postby Wildey

case_master wc wrote:Wild, how long has the PL been on Sky? early 90's? They were going to scap it (matchroom event remember) unless the format changed to shot clock, they don't want proper events.

If Hearn could get them to take events you would have seen them on his proposals. :huh2:


they want the WC at the moment thats with BBC believe me if sky can get that from the BBC or their own version of the biggest tournament then it would change.

snooker as a TV Sport viewing figures far exceeds anything Darts can hope to achieve they know that but they want the biggie and build around that.

they dont want to play second fiddle to the BBC.