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Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Roland

Is he the 3rd best player in the world?

This is how he has reached that status:

Shanghai Masters
2008 - R1 Mark Williams 2-5
2009 - R1 Tian Pengfai 5-3, R2 Liang Wenbo 0-5

Northern Ireland
2008 - R1 Rory McLeod 5-1, R2 Mark Davis 5-2, QF Mark Allen 5-2, SF Ronnie O'Sullivan 5-6

Grand Prix
2008 - R1 Dave Harold 5-4, R2 John Parrott 5-0, QF Steve Davis 5-3, SF Ryan Day 5-6
2009 - R1 Robert Milkins 1-5

Bahrain
2008 - R1 Michael Judge 3-5

UK
2008 - R1 Ian McCulloch 9-2, R2 Peter Ebdon 9-5, QF Mark Williams 9-8, SF Marco Fu 7-9
2009 - R1 Rory McLeod 9-7, R2 Stephen Lee 9-5, QF Ding Junhui 8-9

Welsh
2009 - R1 Jimmy White 5-1, R2 Graeme Dott 5-4, QF Shaun Murphy 5-2, SF Anthony Hamilton 5-4, F Joe Swail 9-5
2010 - R1 Mark Davis 5-1, R2 Neil Robertson 5-2, QF Ryan Day 5-2, SF Stephen Maguire 6-3, F John Higgins 4-9

China
2009 - R1 Nigel Bond 5-0, R2 Stuart Pettman 2-5
2010 - R1 Liu Chuang 5-1, R2 Joe Perry 5-3, Mark King 5-1, SF Mark Williams (to be played today)

World Championships
2009 - R1 Gerrard Greene 10-5, R2 Neil Robetson 8-13

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What I read from those results is that Ali Carter is clearly a very good player. He's without doubt a good top 16 player and definitely top 10. However closer analysis of his progress to world number 3 reveals only a small number of impressive results. In the 2008 UK he beat Peter Ebdon 9-5 - he had previously beaten Ebdon at the Crucible in the match which saw his famous 147. This obviously gave him confidence for their next meeting, however Ebdon was in the middle of a marriage break-up at the time so that may have played a part. In the next round he beat Mark Williams however who can forget the kick Williams suffered when in the balls and seemingly on his way to victory in the deciding frame? The kick proved to be his last shot.

In his up to now one ranking event win, the only player of note he beat was Shaun Murphy. You can only beat who's in front of you so it's not his fault, however Jimmy White, Anthony Hamilton and finally Joe Swail is a dream draw for any top 16 player. He reached the final the following year beating some quality opposition in Neil Robertson, Ryan Day and Stephen Maguire before being outclassed by John Higgins in the final. The Maguire match was a strange one in that Mags had been on the top of his game in despatching Mark Williams the day before, but failed to show up in the semi. Not Carter's fault by any means, you can only beat who is in front of you.

So those UK and Welsh aside, the only top 16 players he has beaten in that time have been Mark Allen (5-2), and this week Joe Perry (5-3) and Mark King (5-1).

He is a quality player, however for me his game is all about break-building and not a lot else. A suscession of kindly draws have flattered his ranking. A comparison with in my opinion better players in Mark Selby and Neil Robertson reveals many more clashes with the likes of each other, Ding, Murphy, Ronnie and Higgins as well as tough qualifiers in Doherty, Cope and Wenbo.

For me Carter's first round at the Crucible against Jamie Cope will be good test of whether he really is world number 3 and a genuine contender for the spoils. A world number 3 should despatch of Cope quite easily, and should also cope with Williams in this afternoons China Open semi-final so let's see what happens. Good luck to Carter, he seems like an amiable chap and is a quality snooker player, but for my money he's not the best of the rest behind O'Sullivan and Higgins.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Smart

First of all, I like Carter as a player. Compact style, easy on the eye.

Perhaps his ranking is one of many anomalies - brought about by lack of tourney's and improper weighting of ranking points - not sure with this, as I am anything but a a ranking geek. It really does not interest me.

Carter is a very decent player when hot, but he remains a hot and cold type player for me, never quite sure what you are gonna get with him. <ok>

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Roland

Yes this isn't meant as a dig at him personally, I appreciate he can play snooker to a very high standard but when I heard he was up to provisional 3 I had to scour his results to see where that came from. To his credit the points don't include his World Final but it's been clear to me for some time that his draws don't seem as tough as other players. Luck of the draw or whatever it is, I'm sure rolling rankings will mix it up a bit more than is currently the case.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Smart

Sonny wrote:Yes this isn't meant as a dig at him personally, I appreciate he can play snooker to a very high standard but when I heard he was up to provisional 3 I had to scour his results to see where that came from. To his credit the points don't include his World Final but it's been clear to me for some time that his draws don't seem as tough as other players. Luck of the draw or whatever it is, I'm sure rolling rankings will mix it up a bit more than is currently the case.


This kind draw/hard draw argument is never-ending in my view. Shaun Murphy seemed (?!?) to forever get a kind draw. But he still had to beat those players and no single player playing at pro level is a complete mug. I totally believe that if you or I saw any of the pro players in a club we would be amazed at their skill level and we would not get many shots at all. <ok>

Carter <cool>

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Casey

I do not like Carter one bit and I think he benefited a few years back from a slump in the standards

Higgins
O’Sullivan
Robbo
Selby
Murphy
Ding
Maguire

All of these boys and more are better than Carter imo

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Rocket_ron

Bourne wrote:Two finals in a row, Mr Consistency of a year or so ago ... He may not be spectacular but steady does the job too.

yes your right, consistancy speaks volumes. look at hendry number one in 2006/2007 season and what did he win? nothing but he was consistant

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Roland

It's easy to be consistently reaching the semi-finals when you're avoiding the best players though. As I said he's definitely a top 10 player and he's clearly better than those ranked in the 11-32 bracket but he's no number 3.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby GJ

For me Carter's first round at the Crucible against Jamie Cope will be good test of whether he really is world number 3 and a genuine contender for the spoils. A world number 3 should despatch of Cope quite easily

like higgins last year who only just scrapped past cope

<laugh>

as long as cope avoids ronnie o robbo in the draw i can see him doing really well at sheffield

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Bourne

GJtheaussiestud wrote:For me Carter's first round at the Crucible against Jamie Cope will be good test of whether he really is world number 3 and a genuine contender for the spoils. A world number 3 should despatch of Cope quite easily

like higgins last year who only just scrapped past cope

<laugh>

as long as cope avoids ronnie o robbo in the draw i can see him doing really well at sheffield

Nice jinx bro !

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Wildey

StalinESQ wrote:
Sonny wrote:Yes this isn't meant as a dig at him personally, I appreciate he can play snooker to a very high standard but when I heard he was up to provisional 3 I had to scour his results to see where that came from. To his credit the points don't include his World Final but it's been clear to me for some time that his draws don't seem as tough as other players. Luck of the draw or whatever it is, I'm sure rolling rankings will mix it up a bit more than is currently the case.


This kind draw/hard draw argument is never-ending in my view. Shaun Murphy seemed (?!?) to forever get a kind draw. But he still had to beat those players and no single player playing at pro level is a complete mug. I totally believe that if you or I saw any of the pro players in a club we would be amazed at their skill level and we would not get many shots at all. <ok>

Carter <cool>


i totally agree with that.

i dont know how the draw system works but what i do know Stephen Hendry has had a very tough draw last 2 seasons in the WC and hes come through them narrowlly losing 13-11 to Murphy or he would have had 2 semis in a row.

should he be World no 3 because hes had it tough. of course not Rankings reward consistancies throughout a season or 2 seasons over this time around 13 tournaments. players cant pick their oponements it works out like that and you beat who your given it swings in roundabouts if your lucky enough to have a long career at the top.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Roland

The point still stands, he is no World Number 3. Mark Williams proved that in China and I highly expect Jamie Cope to do the same next week.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

I've thought about this. While Ali Carter is an excellent player, is he #3? Course not.

I'd have money on Mark Selby, Shaun Murphy, Ding to name but a few every time they played.

Unfortunately, its just another reflection on our ranking system. With more ranking tournaments, you'd see the cream rising to the top & Ali Carter would be in the Top 8, ish.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Roland

Yeah my sentiments too. He's definitely top 10. It's a bit like Maguire last season being ranked number 2. He had a few nice draws but always wobbled in the heat of battle during the latter stages of tournaments against the proper top players. Was he the 2nd best player in the World last year? Ahem... O'Sullivan and Higgins!

More ranking events plus a different format for the draw is what's needed here. I've said it before (http://www.snookerfanatic.com/articles/ ... sation-23/)

the way the current system works is a clever enough idea but it doesn't mix it up enough and you end up with the same players in the same part of the draw always meeting each other several times a season and other players of similar ranking never playing each other.

Anyway, if Bazza gets his way all this is about to change so fingers crossed he gets a massive majority.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Wildey

StalinESQ wrote:yep agree and Hendo's ranking has been propped up by strong showings at the crucible........ If only the real DING had showed up in their 2 recent crucible meetings.


thats the point on another thread players play hendry at the crucible need experiance of conditions or long matches Ding has never won a best of 25 and only played 2 best of 25 both against hendry and hendry at the crucible is a different animal to other venues longer matches got something to do with it aswell.

ding didnt have the experiance and neither will Zhang.

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Alex0paul

wildJONESEYE wrote:
StalinESQ wrote:yep agree and Hendo's ranking has been propped up by strong showings at the crucible........ If only the real DING had showed up in their 2 recent crucible meetings.


thats the point on another thread players play hendry at the crucible need experiance of conditions or long matches Ding has never won a best of 25 and only played 2 best of 25 both against hendry and hendry at the crucible is a different animal to other venues longer matches got something to do with it aswell.

ding didnt have the experiance and neither will Zhang.


And neither did Bingham

Re: Ali Carter - provisional world number 3 (!)

Postby Monique

StalinESQ wrote:Personally think Ding and Zhanger are totally different animals. Not comparable. <ok>

They are different persons and they have managers who themselves have got totally different styles. Zhang impressed me by his calm and his attitude when playing Ricky.
There was quite an audience and the way he concluded the match, the two last frames, that was impressive. I doubt he will freeze TBH.
I'm not saying he will beat Hendry, but I am saying that if Hendry is complacent he will be in for a nasty surprise.