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The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Shaun Murphy (4)
0
No votes
Mark Selby (2)
2
9%
Neil Robertson (6)
7
30%
Judd Trump (2)
1
4%
Stephen Maguire (4)
1
4%
Ding Junhui (5)
4
17%
Mark Allen (1)
1
4%
Dominic Dale (2)
4
17%
Other
1
4%
Nobody
2
9%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Skullman

Easily Robbo or Ding. Robbo generally wins one ranker a year, while Ding is up and down but always manages to have at least one good run a season. The only problem for them is that they rarely do well in China, which is where half the rankers are.

That or it'll be someone who completely comes out of left field and dominates like Hendry or Davis did.

Edit: Or Ebdon... <doh> Can't believe I forgot him.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

Robbo and Ding best placed but Judd is young enough

my prediction is nobody they haven't got the mindset to do it ...you have Hawkins,Walden and Bingham winning tournaments no disrespect to them but the likes of Judd and Ding should be taking those Events and then its Possible.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

Jewell wrote:Looking over that list again, it's struck me how average this generation of players have been. All capable of great performances on their day but no consistentancy.

I'd even go far as to say one of Ronnie or Higgins will get to 30 before any of this lot reach double figures.

if theres one line in snooker that pisses me off its

"theres so many great players these days its tough"

they almost talk themselves out of winning tournaments consistently by saying im lucky to win one.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Sickpotter

Wild WC wrote:
Jewell wrote:Looking over that list again, it's struck me how average this generation of players have been. All capable of great performances on their day but no consistentancy.

I'd even go far as to say one of Ronnie or Higgins will get to 30 before any of this lot reach double figures.

if theres one line in snooker that pisses me off its

"theres so many great players these days its tough"

they almost talk themselves out of winning tournaments consistently by saying im lucky to win one.


Agreed.

I expect to hear that kind of comment from players past their best who refuse to believe they aren't the player they used to be. Can't be loss of form, focus, vision, etc......must be the "stronger" field :roll:

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Roland

To be fair you see a lot more matches these days where the loser plays his best and things haven't gone his way, whereas in years past this didn't happen so much. There are many occasions where the loser has gone down by the odd frame despite playing good enough to feel entitled to win. Obviously we're talking top top players here, the likes of Ronnie, Higgins, Williams, Robbo, Ding, Selby, Allen, Judd, Murphy, Maguire are all capable of turning each other over on any given day.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:To be fair you see a lot more matches these days where the loser plays his best and things haven't gone his way, whereas in years past this didn't happen so much. There are many occasions where the loser has gone down by the odd frame despite playing good enough to feel entitled to win. Obviously we're talking top top players here, the likes of Ronnie, Higgins, Williams, Robbo, Ding, Selby, Allen, Judd, Murphy, Maguire are all capable of turning each other over on any given day.

but they still have to go in with a winning mentality.

ill be honest i don't see it they half expect to lose...and if they win a tournament they relax thinking yes ive done it and go in to hibernation instead of foot on the throat while the going is good.

you have to think your the best and ill stamp all over the opposition not saying stuff ill try my best but im playing a great player.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Roland

But if you play a good safety shot and leave the opponent tight on the baulk cushion and they pot a long red and clear up, there's not a right lot you can do about it is there? This is how many matches between the players I've listed have been decided!

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:But if you play a good safety shot and leave the opponent tight on the baulk cushion and they pot a long red and clear up, there's not a right lot you can do about it is there? This is how many matches between the players I've listed have been decided!

yes BUT

after 2003 Mark Williams disappeared as the Force he was and in 2005 Shaun Murphy won the World Championship that signal the start of the new Generation But since then Even Mark has won 3 Main Rankers to Shaun's 2 and played in More Finals.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Roland

What's the point you're making?

I'd say the standard of the big 4 hasn't been topped yet but all of the others have been capable of that level on the big occasion albeit not in as sustained bursts. When wondering why MJW, ROS and JH are still winning I've said before it's pretty obvious, they are the best of the generation that grew up with snooker on the tv all the time meaning more people of our age (I'm a year older than those 3) tried out snooker in our youth per head of population than at any other time which is why the best of that generation are as good as they are.

I think the next high standard will come from the generation of Chinese who are currently around 10 years old, and they will face a lot of Europeans who can play to a similar standard through growing up with Eurosport.

For my money, I'm happy lumping everything on Luca Brecel. I think the boy is phenomenal and he's capable of playing the sort of game we've not seen the likes of since Ronnie first burst on the scene in 1993.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Roland

Jewell wrote:
Sonny wrote:But if you play a good safety shot and leave the opponent tight on the baulk cushion and they pot a long red and clear up, there's not a right lot you can do about it is there? This is how many matches between the players I've listed have been decided!


TBH, Sonny, I can't think of many matches recently that have been decided that way. Ronnie's 147 against Selby in the UK is one that comes to mind straightaway but not many others.

What I've noticed more these days is that the losing player always has chances through the course of a match but can't take them for whatever reason. Very rarely do you see a match now where one player has annihilated the other without giving little or no chance whatsoever.


Sorry I was talking to Wild in my last post but you posted in the mean time.

There are a few that stick in my mind, like Judd and Selby in the China Open the second session of which was a ridiculously high standard, and Dott and Selby in the World semi-final. Judd and Ding and Judd and Higgins at the Crucible last year. Williams and Selby in the German final, Robbo and Higgins in the Grand Prix semi, Ronnie and MJW in the Masters semi etc etc.

I think you're being picky if you look at the odd missed ball in a certain frame which stands out because the player who came to the table then cleaned up. They are human at the end of the day and it's impossible to expect every single ball to be potted.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby jojo

a fair few of ebdons wins have been third rate ranking titles

from the list i would say robertson ding and trump in that order but the standard is much more balanced these days and there is no player who seem to want to dominate as badly as davis and hendry did

both would be winning about fourty to fifty percent of the ranking titles they entered each year if they were in their prime today

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Monique

jojo wrote:a fair few of ebdons wins have been third rate ranking titles

from the list i would say robertson ding and trump in that order but the standard is much more balanced these days and there is no player who seem to want to dominate as badly as davis and hendry did

both would be winning about fourty to fifty percent of the ranking titles they entered each year if they were in their prime today


I don't think so, and more importantly THEY don't think so. The standard at the top hasn't improved, but the standard below the top 4, or top 8, has improved massively. Davis and Hendry both have said multiple times that they never felt challenged before reaching the quarters in their prime. Recently Rod Lawler had an interview with Matt and he said that every player in the tour today would have been in the top 32 when he started on the circuit early 90th. Things changed when the game was opened and players like Ebdon, and Doherty entered the tour as well as the class of 92 a couple of years later. It took then 3-4 seasons to climb and adjust to pro life (they all need it, even Hendry only became a consistent winner when he was in his 4th season) but when they did, it was finished with one player domination. When Hendry won his 6th title, he was only 27 and he certainly wasn't "finished" or "burnt out"; 10 years later he was still n°1. But he couldn't dominate anymore. In the next decade titles were shared although the "big four" took the lion's share. But they were four, not one. And don't tell me Hendry's motivation dropped. Even in recent seasons, when he was actually past it, it was blatant how much it hurt him when he lost and how badly he still wanted to win.
It's not just about "wanting" to win. There are a fair number of players on the tour who do have the winning mentality, but so do their opponents and when they are of similar standard, inevitably, trophies will be shared.

Another good indication of the improvement of the standard following the opening of the game is the rankings. If you look at how it evolved between 1990 and 1995 there was an almost complete change of the last 16 and 32 field, the newcomers overpowering the ones who had been there before, and not just the older ones, the younger ones as well.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

Monique im sorry but thats Rubbish

no disrespect to any player that Makes good but these days you got 90s Failures Climbing the Rankings on the verge of the top 16 at 40 somethings.

so has standards improved down the Rankings ?

its a myth/brain washed and players trying to oversell the sport

if Hendry was starting out today HE Would dominate and reach 10 Rankers in absolutely no time at all Because he Wanted it and Believed in himself and was Dedicated to an extent players today aren't.

i think there are Great players But with respect too many are under performing Badly and they try to justify that by puting spin on things.

John Higgins and Ronnie O Sullivan has managed to dominate the last 2 Seasons between them and Neither had the Dedication and sheer will to win Hendry or Davis had.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Monique

Wild do you ever look at the FACTS when they don't suit you?
When the 1996/97 season started Hendry was 27. When the 2005/06 season ended he was 37, like Higgins is now and he was still world n°1, so don't tell me he was past it. He wasn't. During this decade - the strongest in snooker history - he was the same Hendry as before, he was dedicated as ever, but he won only two majors. He wasn't able to dominate that era. That's what his tally shows. That's facts. He had to share the trophies with 3 other players - who were only 20 or 21 at the start of the decade. Before that he had nobody of the calibre to face, thats why he could dominate. It's easy to forget that when Hendry won his first World title, Davis was about to turn 33 and starting to struggle with his game. During those ten years he still won his fair share but he didn't dominate. And he wouldn't dominate today neither.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby SnookerFan

Monique wrote:Wild do you ever look at the FACTS when they don't suit you?
When the 1996/97 season started Hendry was 27. When the 2005/06 season ended he was 37, like Higgins is now and he was still world n°1, so don't tell me he was past it. He wasn't. During this decade - the strongest in snooker history - he was the same Hendry as before, he was dedicated as ever, but he won only two majors. He wasn't able to dominate that era. That's what his tally shows. That's facts. He had to share the trophies with 3 other players - who were only 20 or 21 at the start of the decade. Before that he had nobody of the calibre to face, thats why he could dominate. It's easy to forget that when Hendry won his first World title, Davis was about to turn 33 and starting to struggle with his game. During those ten years he still won his fair share but he didn't dominate. And he wouldn't dominate today neither.


At the same time, players don't always peak at the same age. One might be past his best at one age, where another one has just reached his.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Roland

It's been said many time before Monique, you never watched Hendry at his peak and only started watching relatively recently so your opinions on Hendry have to be taken with a pinch of salt! It's true he raised the bar and then 3 others rose up to join him but he was also stronger in his formative years because his powers of concentration were so sharp back then. So no, he wasn't as good consistently post 1997 as he was pre.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby N_Castle07

Monique wrote:One is not past it at 27 if one manages to still be n°1 at 37… Hendry was not past it. He just got much stronger opposition than the one he had before.


What a load of rubbish.

Yes Hendry reached World No 1 at 37 but this was down to reaching Semi’s consistency he never actually won a title to gain the No 1 spot. A bit like Selby today who is No1 through consistency and despite having a relatively poor ranking title tally. Joe Johnson is always banging on about this.

It is true to say Hendry wasn’t much of a force after the age of 29, however it can be understood that he wouldn’t have the motivation he had previously had before the 1999 World Championship. And why would he? He had reached his ultimate goal and achieved all the records going.

I have to agree with Wild on this one. Players today do not have that killer motivation which Davis and Hendry had. Just the other week I was nodding my head in disappointment during Mark Allen’s PL interview. He said he would be happy to get another ranking title in his career. For me that is not the right attitude, these players need to set higher goals for themselves and need to stop being complacent with small trophy cabinets.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:
Monique wrote:Wild do you ever look at the FACTS when they don't suit you?
When the 1996/97 season started Hendry was 27. When the 2005/06 season ended he was 37, like Higgins is now and he was still world n°1, so don't tell me he was past it. He wasn't. During this decade - the strongest in snooker history - he was the same Hendry as before, he was dedicated as ever, but he won only two majors. He wasn't able to dominate that era. That's what his tally shows. That's facts. He had to share the trophies with 3 other players - who were only 20 or 21 at the start of the decade. Before that he had nobody of the calibre to face, thats why he could dominate. It's easy to forget that when Hendry won his first World title, Davis was about to turn 33 and starting to struggle with his game. During those ten years he still won his fair share but he didn't dominate. And he wouldn't dominate today neither.


At the same time, players don't always peak at the same age. One might be past his best at one age, where another one has just reached his.

when a player has dominated like Hendry did giving it all for a 10 year period they gets burnt out...

Ronnie and John enjoyed life more in their 20s so they had more to give in their 30s.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

but Hendry was not the point i was making

if you dissect the lower ranks properly without this media spin has it improved ?

Just look at Jack Lisowski has hit a brick wall while players twice his age are making progress in 2012 they couldn't in 2000 despite being pros for 10 years then.

Look at the early 90s the standards today is very similar with 40 something grinding their way and whereas today's players struggle against them Hendry took them apart.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Monique

I can say for John but if you think that Ronnie enjoyed his life in his twenties, you know nothing. He spent most of it battling depression and addictions, and facing personal distress. It took a lot out of him.
Hendry's dedication did take it's toll as well, no doubts. But he remained a force in the game at least until 2005, thats fact, he wasn't past it.
I really don't understand why Hendry fans have such a problem with the fact that he had stronger competition during that decade. It happens in all sports. Today in tennis we have 4 players who each "dominate" for a few months in turn: Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray. Each of them, if the others weren't around would probably win most of the titles. They just happen to be around all at the same time and in a way it's great for the sport, just like the 1996/2006 decade was great for snooker.

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:I can say for John but if you think that Ronnie enjoyed his life in his twenties, you know nothing. He spent most of it battling depression and addictions, and facing personal distress. It took a lot out of him.
Hendry's dedication did take it's toll as well, no doubts. But he remained a force in the game at least until 2005, thats fact, he wasn't past it.
I really don't understand why Hendry fans have such a problem with the fact that he had stronger competition during that decade. It happens in all sports. Today in tennis we have 4 players who each "dominate" for a few months in turn: Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray. Each of them, if the others weren't around would probably win most of the titles. They just happen to be around all at the same time and in a way it's great for the sport, just like the 1996/2006 decade was great for snooker.

Hendry was still capable up to about 2005 but he was just about playing at 55 to 60 % his Best at that time his long game was non existent

Re: The next player to reach 10 ranking titles

Postby Sickpotter

Monique, I don't think anyone thinks he didn't have strong competition but he definitely wasn't at his best for a few years prior to 2005.

Stronger competition is debatable, Davis and White in their prime were devastating players. As they declined ROS/Williams/Higgins moved in to replace them as the main competition for Hendry.

All that really changed is one extra top notch player in the mix and that is not enough of a difference to bother a player in their prime.

Remaining a force in the game and being past your best are two different things.

Hendry while battling the yips managed to remain a force in the game but he was not playing his best, he was in fact past it.

To each his/her own, it's all down to opinion anyway.