Topic locked

how do we improve China Open Status ?

Move From it From The Current Slot
2
13%
Use China Open as cut off Point for World Seedings
7
47%
OK as it is.
6
40%
 
Total votes : 15

China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Wildey

persanally i see the China Open as Chinas Blue Ribbon Event with history as far Back as 1999 and won at that time by John Higgins beating Billy Snaddon in the final but over the years Fans and Players alike have been looking on it as some sort of warm up for sheffield whitch is Wrong in my opinion its a major in it own right and should be treated as such.

Question is how do we improve it status ?

Move From it Current Slot

Use China Open as cut off Point for World Seedings

OK as it is.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Casey

Considering it's timing and the fact the World Open has higher prize money, it moves down the pecking order. The Welsh Open would be a much better event to have closer to the Crucible but that will never happen.

It has always been the case with the penultimate event to the season, the top players have their eyes on the Crucible. it was the case when there was only 6 events a year and its the case now.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:Considering it's timing and the fact the World Open has higher prize money, it moves down the pecking order. The Welsh Open would be a much better event to have closer to the Crucible but that will never happen.

It has always been the case with the penultimate event to the season, the top players have their eyes on the Crucible. it was the case when there was only 6 events a year and its the case now.


World Open and China open is pretty similar in prize money only Difference is Runner up Gets More in World Open and Semi Finalists More in China Open.

World Open http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_World ... snooker%29
China Open http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/ChinaO ... 07,00.html

beside i dont buy that cobblers about cash = more importance but thats beside the point China Open is still a Major in China..... World Open not established there at All yet.

These event should be treated on Merit and China Open is NOT A Warm up.

id put the cut off for the World after China so players minds are firmly on the Job and dont know where they are seeded for sheffield if seeded at all.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby jojo

if the cut off for the world championship is after the china open with no more events remaining before the world championship would that leave enough time for all the qualifiers to be played ? because currently the cut off point is earlier so that leave enough time for qualifiers to plan ahead and know who they going to be facing

i know theres three weeks from the end of the china open to the start of the world championship so i think there should be enough time therefore it might be a good idea

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Wildey

jojo wrote:if the cut off for the world championship is after the china open with no more events remaining before the world championship would that leave enough time for all the qualifiers to be played ? because currently the cut off point is earlier so that leave enough time for qualifiers to plan ahead and know who they going to be facing

i know theres three weeks from the end of the china open to the start of the world championship so i think there should be enough time therefore it might be a good idea

china open final 1st of April with WC Qualifiers starting on the 5th of April with non tour pros so really qualifiers dont start in earnest until 7th of April plenty of time for a turn around...

snooker needs to be braught kicking and screaming in to true rolling rankings.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Casey

If the cut off point was after China - which would help the tournament - then the first 3 rounds of qualifiers for the World's need to be played at best of 11's - with the last 48 onwards best of 19. That's the only way to fit it in timewise.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Witz78

yeh i agree Wild, the fully rolling rankings should be brought in and that would instantly make the China Open take on an extra importance.

However i think another way to make it a true Major is to increase the format or at least do something to make it stand out.

At the moment the Shanghai Masters, World Open and China Open are identical format and 7,000 points to winner etc. World Open has most prize money so its the most important of the 3.

No-one says id rather win less money and the China Open just cos its been an established event longer than the World Open.

Next season one of the new Chinese events, the International Championship (?) i think has 125k top prize money, so that will be far more attractive a tournament to the players than the China Open.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Casey

Witz78 wrote:yeh i agree Wild, the fully rolling rankings should be brought in and that would instantly make the China Open take on an extra importance.

However i think another way to make it a true Major is to increase the format or at least do something to make it stand out.

At the moment the Shanghai Masters, World Open and China Open are identical format and 7,000 points to winner etc. World Open has most prize money so its the most important of the 3.

No-one says id rather win less money and the China Open just cos its been an established event longer than the World Open.

Next season one of the new Chinese events, the International Championship (?) i think has 125k top prize money, so that will be far more attractive a tournament to the players than the China Open.


I really hope China don’t fall into the trap the UK did with regards formats – the old grand prix, Irish Masters, Scottish Masters, British Open and most other events apart from the majors adopted the best of 9 format.
It is vital that China either go long like the UK or short like the previous World Open to make a change.
The 125k first prize is huge so there is an event that should have a different format.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Skullman

Witz78 wrote:yeh i agree Wild, the fully rolling rankings should be brought in and that would instantly make the China Open take on an extra importance.

However i think another way to make it a true Major is to increase the format or at least do something to make it stand out.

At the moment the Shanghai Masters, World Open and China Open are identical format and 7,000 points to winner etc. World Open has most prize money so its the most important of the 3.

No-one says id rather win less money and the China Open just cos its been an established event longer than the World Open.

Next season one of the new Chinese events, the International Championship (?) i think has 125k top prize money, so that will be far more attractive a tournament to the players than the China Open.


Why not make the International Open the fourth major then? Make it a best of 11's tournament, with a best of 17 semi and best 19 final. Plus it would spread the majors out a bit and it focus some of the players who think that season doesn't start until the Champs.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:If the cut off point was after China - which would help the tournament - then the first 3 rounds of qualifiers for the World's need to be played at best of 11's - with the last 48 onwards best of 19. That's the only way to fit it in timewise.

not really

Last 64 of the World Qualifiers dont start until wednesday 11th of April 7 days after World Qualifiers start and qualifiers finishing 15th of April. my guess nobody outside the top 64 will be playing in the china open final.

seeds for the crucible and draw would be out 2nd of April 20 days before it starts at the crucible.

draw for the 1st round is done monday 16th of April 5 days before the event is played it leaves plenty of time for everything.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Wildey

fans has got to get it in their heads of getting tickets blind for the first round same as Semis and Finals.....

The Crucible showpiece as it is and the way its Formatted and Seeded has been distracting from the China Open for years it really needs Addressing.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Witz78

Wild wrote:fans has got to get it in their heads of getting tickets blind for the first round same as Semis and Finals.....

The Crucible showpiece as it is and the way its Formatted and Seeded has been distracting from the China Open for years it really needs Addressing.


<ok>

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Casey

One thing helping the tournament this year is that there is a 3 week gap before the Crucible so the players won't be rushing to get the plane home.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby jojo

well i think the cut off point should be after the china open

it would give more value to the tournament as a lot of the players will need points to guarantee their world championship place as well as who potentially facing who in the second round and so on

there is enough time to have the qualifiers after that

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby PLtheRef

In my view it's 'bigness' and 'prestige' has certainly been diminished in recent years with the growing swathes of events moving over to Asia. With 5 ranking events in China alone next season,

However, speaking with someone from China @ the UK Championship he told me that this is the one tournament held with great 'reverence' by the Chinese snooker community. He says people who may not follow the game all the rest of the season will follow the China Open.

For it to remain any of its 'prestige' however for me it needs to develop its format. - Naturally this may mean moving it to an earlier part of the season.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Monique

PLtheRef wrote:In my view it's 'bigness' and 'prestige' has certainly been diminished in recent years with the growing swathes of events moving over to Asia. With 5 ranking events in China alone next season,

However, speaking with someone from China @ the UK Championship he told me that this is the one tournament held with great 'reverence' by the Chinese snooker community. He says people who may not follow the game all the rest of the season will follow the China Open.

For it to remain any of its 'prestige' however for me it needs to develop its format. - Naturally this may mean moving it to an earlier part of the season.



The China Open was played in the winter earlier (in the late 90th certainly). That was a lot better. People can waffle all they want, jet-lag is a reality and it lasts for several days. It may not be that bad when you are "busy", moving etc... but as soon as you stop being active it knocks you down. This year there is a bigger than usual gap between the China Open and the WC and the players will have time to recuperate. But it's not always the case and, as the venue is at the University, I suppose that the tournament is made to coincide with a kind of "term" for the students, so there isn't much flexibility.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Casey

I can see all the Chinese events competing against eachother, with all the sponsors wanting their event to be the best and pumping more money into the events.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:I can see all the Chineese events competing against eachother, with all the sponsors wanting their event to be the best and pumping more money into the events.

That can only be good for the sport .

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Witz78

Monique wrote:
PLtheRef wrote:In my view it's 'bigness' and 'prestige' has certainly been diminished in recent years with the growing swathes of events moving over to Asia. With 5 ranking events in China alone next season,

However, speaking with someone from China @ the UK Championship he told me that this is the one tournament held with great 'reverence' by the Chinese snooker community. He says people who may not follow the game all the rest of the season will follow the China Open.

For it to remain any of its 'prestige' however for me it needs to develop its format. - Naturally this may mean moving it to an earlier part of the season.



The China Open was played in the winter earlier (in the late 90th certainly). That was a lot better. People can waffle all they want, jet-lag is a reality and it lasts for several days. It may not be that bad when you are "busy", moving etc... but as soon as you stop being active it knocks you down. This year there is a bigger than usual gap between the China Open and the WC and the players will have time to recuperate. But it's not always the case and, as the venue is at the University, I suppose that the tournament is made to coincide with a kind of "term" for the students, so there isn't much flexibility.


so we need more events then dont we so the players dont get time for the jetlag to kick in <cool>

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Witz78

Wild wrote:
Casey wrote:I can see all the Chineese events competing against eachother, with all the sponsors wanting their event to be the best and pumping more money into the events.

That can only be good for the sport .


as ive said all along, a money based order of merit is the ideal way to kickstart and accelerate the "competition" between rival tournaments :john:

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby jojo

to be honest i dont really like the events as much in china purely because of the time difference the matches are over by 2pm uk time so you feel you missed out

id rather they go into the middle of the night maybe like a usa timezone or australia i dont mind that

but it better to have five ranking tournaments in the far east than just the one and six ranking tournaments per year like a few years ago im not complaining

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby GJ

Its fine as it is 3 weeks till worlds once its over

100 % fine

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby Wildey

jojo wrote:to be honest i dont really like the events as much in china purely because of the time difference the matches are over by 2pm uk time so you feel you missed out

id rather they go into the middle of the night maybe like a usa timezone or australia i dont mind that

but it better to have five ranking tournaments in the far east than just the one and six ranking tournaments per year like a few years ago im not complaining


Time wize Brazilian Masters was Perfect

6pm Start finishing about 4am

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby SnookerFan

Personally I like having some matches start at 6am or 7am, but I always was an early riser.

Some people like late night drama, but I like a bit of early morning drama me. Out of bed, first thing you do is put the snooker on. With cornflakes, or something fried. Marvellous. :-D

Obviously, a lot of times this clashes with work unless you can get time off. When you are at work, you have to get it taped and try to remember not to click onto your snooker sites while abusing the internet in the office.

But for two or three tournaments a year, it's :bowdown:

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby SnookerFan

Skullman wrote:Why not make the International Open the fourth major then? Make it a best of 11's tournament, with a best of 17 semi and best 19 final. Plus it would spread the majors out a bit and it focus some of the players who think that season doesn't start until the Champs.


I wouldn't have anything against this format, but I'm not quite sure it's as easy just to make a tournament a major. The people watching have got to accept it as a major. (And not just the sort of people who post on snooker forums, but all fans from the most casual to the most hardcore.) For that to succeed the channel's broadcasting it have to see it as a major, as do the sponsors putting money into it. And all that's pointless if the sports sections in papers or sports channels ignore the tournament. I think it'd help to have to the tournament run for a few years, provide us with many classic matches and have the players seemingly super-up for it before it got real status as a major.

Re: China Open (how Big a event is it)

Postby SnookerFan

Witz78 wrote:You dozy repugnant twonk Simplefan.
Its gonna be for 6 ranking events at least next year. You still bowing down for early morning snooker?


No, I agree with you that we don't want all tournaments to go to China. Your points about the World Open were pretty spot on. The venue was rubbish and there was no crowds. We certainly don't want to overkill China, especially when there are other countries for which it is popular.

Hence my two or three tournaments a year remark.