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Before 147

Postby roy142857

Just wonder is anyone knows how the record score for snooker developed before the first competitive 147?

I did a bit of research recently on Sidney Smith, who held the record at one stage with a 133 break in December 1936, although he lost it to Joe Davis within a few months apparently. And Smith had the first competitive clearance, a 136 - but not sure if that was a record high score too. I saw that there are Sidney Smith '136' cues still about (presumably a limited edition?) and owned by cue collectors.

Re: Before 147

Postby Roland

Taken from the interview I did with Cliff Thorburn:

Who were the players you used to look up to around that time?

George Chenier. He’s the only other player (than Cliff) in the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame. At one time he held the record competitive snooker break which was a 144 he made over in England in about 1948 or ’49, and he was the first person in the history of Straight Pool to make a 150 and out (i.e. a perfect game). So I try to talk about him as much as I can because he was a hero of mine.

Re: Before 147

Postby roy142857

Sounds like a player worth researching, a quick look on Wikipedia found him reaching the World Championship semis in 1950, but that's about it ... bar for his election to the Hall of Fame in 1971.

Re: Before 147

Postby Roland

I do remember that when I was a kid the tv programme Record Breakers with Roy Castle and Norris McWhirter from the Guinness Book of Records only counted those made in the World Championships - probably because Doug Mountjoy made a televised 145 at the Crucible. So when Cliff made his in 1983 they saw that as the first. But Joe Davis made the first recorded one didn't he?

Re: Before 147

Postby Witz78

whats the hardest

147 in snooker
9 darter in darts
hole in one at golf
perfect score at ten pin bowling
6 sixes or wickets in an over
the perfect hat-trick in football, left foot, right foot and header
treble bagel win in a tennis Slam

Re: Before 147

Postby Muppet147

Witz78 wrote:whats the hardest

147 in snooker
9 darter in darts
hole in one at golf
perfect score at ten pin bowling
6 sixes or wickets in an over
the perfect hat-trick in football, left foot, right foot and header
treble bagel win in a tennis Slam


Good question. A lot of these depend on the quality of the opposition. If you're Federer playing some no-mark at tennis, getting a few 6-0s probably isn't that much of an achievement. I've never gone ten pin bowling so no idea how hard that is. Hole in ones in golfare quite common but the odds on getting one are probably high. I'd say it's between the 147 and the nine darter.

Re: Before 147

Postby Bourne

Witz78 wrote:whats the hardest

147 in snooker
9 darter in darts
hole in one at golf
perfect score at ten pin bowling
6 sixes or wickets in an over
the perfect hat-trick in football, left foot, right foot and header
treble bagel win in a tennis Slam

Depends what level you're talking about on some of those though. A 147, 9 darter and perfect 10 pin score are all completely up to whoever's doing them, the opposition can't do anything about it, but with the 6 sixes/wickets, hat-trick or triple bagel it's all opposition pending.

Re: Before 147

Postby SnookerFan

Bourne wrote:
Witz78 wrote:whats the hardest

147 in snooker
9 darter in darts
hole in one at golf
perfect score at ten pin bowling
6 sixes or wickets in an over
the perfect hat-trick in football, left foot, right foot and header
treble bagel win in a tennis Slam

Depends what level you're talking about on some of those though. A 147, 9 darter and perfect 10 pin score are all completely up to whoever's doing them, the opposition can't do anything about it, but with the 6 sixes/wickets, hat-trick or triple bagel it's all opposition pending.



Yes, this is true. The ones where the opposition being poor can make an achievement easier, should be discounted.

Re: Before 147

Postby Witz78

another factor is the importance and level of the game being played

a 147 in the WC always going to be more special than in a PTC

a perfect hat-trick at a World Cup more than a league match

etc etc

Re: Before 147

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:I do remember that when I was a kid the tv programme Record Breakers with Roy Castle and Norris McWhirter from the Guinness Book of Records only counted those made in the World Championships - probably because Doug Mountjoy made a televised 145 at the Crucible. So when Cliff made his in 1983 they saw that as the first. But Joe Davis made the first recorded one didn't he?


Joe Davis in 1955 vs Willie Smith in a exhibition match in London
and
Rex Williams in 1965 vs Mannie Francisco in a exhibition match in cape town

are the only 2 recognised templeted 147 Prior to Steve Davis in 1982.

Re: Before 147

Postby Roland

So what was the last recognised highest break prior to Joe Davis? Was it the 144 from Chenier?

Re: Before 147

Postby Hallenberg

Witz78 wrote:whats the hardest

147 in snooker
9 darter in darts
hole in one at golf
perfect score at ten pin bowling
6 sixes or wickets in an over
the perfect hat-trick in football, left foot, right foot and header
treble bagel win in a tennis Slam


It depends who you are..

Image

Re: Before 147

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:So what was the last recognised highest break prior to Joe Davis? Was it the 144 from Chenier?

George Chenier set the Record Break of 144 in 1950 while playing Joe Davis and 4 weeks Later Joe Davis made a 146 a record until he made the 1955 Maximum.

Re: Before 147

Postby roy142857

Wild wrote:
Sonny wrote:I do remember that when I was a kid the tv programme Record Breakers with Roy Castle and Norris McWhirter from the Guinness Book of Records only counted those made in the World Championships - probably because Doug Mountjoy made a televised 145 at the Crucible. So when Cliff made his in 1983 they saw that as the first. But Joe Davis made the first recorded one didn't he?


Joe Davis in 1955 vs Willie Smith in a exhibition match in London
and
Rex Williams in 1965 vs Mannie Francisco in a exhibition match in cape town

are the only 2 recognised templeted 147 Prior to Steve Davis in 1982.


The Williams one is sometimes said to be the first in competition, as it was (sort of) competitive - a Pr0s v Amateurs thing.

Anyone know, was Rodney Goggins 147 at the 2010 IBSF World Championship the first at that level of competition?

Re: Before 147

Postby roy142857

Just found this - Geet Sethi made the first amateur 147 in competition at the 1989 Indian National Championships ... so is there a list anywhere of amateur 147's in competition I wonder?

Re: Before 147

Postby roy142857

From Chris Turner's site re Joe Davis "He set new record breaks five times, 137 in 1937, 138 (1938), 140 (1947), 146 (1950)"

So we have :
1936 Sidney Smith - 133
1937 Joe Davis - 137
1938 Joe Davis - 138
(1939 Sidney Smith - 136 first total clearance)
1947 Joe Davis - 140
1950 George Chenier 144
1950 Joe Davis 146

Wonder if there are any missing by other players, and whose record did Sidney Smith beat (for some reason I'd assumed it was Joe Davis, but looks like that wasn't the case).

Edit - just to confuse the issue, Chris Turner's article on Walter Donaldson says his 142 in 1946 was a world record at the time - but then, the article on Joe Davis as quoted above said 140 was a record a year later ...

Re: Before 147

Postby Roland

so the 133, 137 and 138 weren't total clearances?

Re: Before 147

Postby roy142857

Apparently so - though I'd like to know more about them - certainly a big fuss was made over Smith's 136, what with the special edition snooker cue and everything. I'm assuming either a red already potted with the 133, 137 and 138, or a black in a bad position? I suppose the breaks could have ended on an easy miss ... but I've not found any mention of that ... but then, for a major(ish) sport, the records of what happened seem thin on the ground.

I'd guess that that the balls of the earlier era would have made difficult pots even more difficult? Don't know anyone who has played with old equipment though (there's a thought for an exhibition tournament!)

Re: Before 147

Postby roy142857

Sonny wrote:Taken from the interview I did with Cliff Thorburn:

Who were the players you used to look up to around that time?

George Chenier. He’s the only other player (than Cliff) in the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame. At one time he held the record competitive snooker break which was a 144 he made over in England in about 1948 or ’49, and he was the first person in the history of Straight Pool to make a 150 and out (i.e. a perfect game). So I try to talk about him as much as I can because he was a hero of mine.


A little bit more about Chenier at David Smith's site :

http://www.cuesnviews.co.uk/Cues/chenier.htm


   

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