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Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote: Players do need time to practice and settle at home with their families to give themselves the best chance in upcoming events.

instead of bucking about all over the world like money whores looking for one night stands <ok>

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

Those that do go out and play exhibitions in far flung locations between heavy schedules in the pro circuit deserve to be singled out if they moan about being away from home too much. I'm sure they are few and far between, Selby never moans and he's flying all over the place between events so there's your example to follow.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Sickpotter

snooky147 wrote:Oh for gods sake cant you lot get it into your heads that we DO NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO SIX OR SEVEN EVENTS A YEAR
We do want a more balanced and structured approach in order to maximise the revenue that is there and to be able to reward ALL the 100 players on the tour with a guaranteed minimum. After all, the lower ranked players qualified to play as pro's. There should be no events where they should not at least break even expense wise. Is that really too much to ask? Then as resources and money becomes available by all means expand further. I for one am not against Hearn's stated intention of a tourney every week of the year but they have got to be viable for ALL.


A guaranteed minimum regardless of performance......that's called an appearance fee and yes, it is too much to ask to give every player an appearance fee.

No other sport guarantees income for all those who've qualified to play it, why should snooker?

Not a single cue sport event offers a guarantee of cash to all those who enter....not one so you need to get a little more realistic with your demands.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby snooky147

Do not talk so much crap. It is called being paid for whatever round they start in, THEY qualified as pro's so they should be paid something.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Sickpotter wrote:
snooky147 wrote:Oh for gods sake cant you lot get it into your heads that we DO NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO SIX OR SEVEN EVENTS A YEAR
We do want a more balanced and structured approach in order to maximise the revenue that is there and to be able to reward ALL the 100 players on the tour with a guaranteed minimum. After all, the lower ranked players qualified to play as pro's. There should be no events where they should not at least break even expense wise. Is that really too much to ask? Then as resources and money becomes available by all means expand further. I for one am not against Hearn's stated intention of a tourney every week of the year but they have got to be viable for ALL.


A guaranteed minimum regardless of performance......that's called an appearance fee and yes, it is too much to ask to give every player an appearance fee.

No other sport guarantees income for all those who've qualified to play it, why should snooker?

Not a single cue sport event offers a guarantee of cash to all those who enter....not one so you need to get a little more realistic with your demands.


No not regardless of performance. But to win 3-4 matches and still be off your pocket isn't right. That's never going to promote the game is it? snooky and me are just asking for some common sense and fairness to be applied. Apparently it's too much to ask.
Time for a Peter Ustinov quote (I think it was him) "Common sense is the less common thing in the world". How true!

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:Those that do go out and play exhibitions in far flung locations between heavy schedules in the pro circuit deserve to be singled out if they moan about being away from home too much. I'm sure they are few and far between, Selby never moans and he's flying all over the place between events so there's your example to follow.

yes selby does it and murphy does it and they get on with it.

theres different issues with the PTC from different angles

1 To much traveling cant see family

2 not enough money in them

3 poor organisation

i think the least priority for Barry Hearn is NO 1 and Priority is NO 3 THEN No 2.

if every player was moaning about the same thing then it would be easier to deal with it but its not if its not one thing its another.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Sickpotter

snooky147 wrote:Do not talk so much crap. It is called being paid for whatever round they start in, THEY qualified as pro's so they should be paid something.


Sure, they qualified as pros so let's just give them some money each event based on past accomplishments. :roll:

Paid for whatever round they start in? So if they show up and lose in round one they should get money? <doh>

That's talking crap, get in the real world.

Name me one sport that everyone who enters an event comes out ahead? Doesn't exist.

I agree with Monique that it's a shame to have someone make it through 3 rounds and come out in the negative, that shouldn't happen but it's going to take time to tweek that stuff and players will need to learn to manage their money and time accordingly.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Wild, Sonny ,

Neither Shaun nor Mark have children yet (*). Their priorities might and will change no doubt if/when they have them. Snooker is not a sport where you retire at 30, with a fortune, and then can focus on whatever is important to you. You have to carry on well beyond that.
I'm absolutely certain that the day Shaun has a child, he will take parenting with the seriousness he puts into his career. I don't always agree with Shaun's sometimes rigid views but I never doubted his honestly and genuine nature.
(*) Mark actually has a daughter that he fathered at a young age and that, for all I know - I might be wrong - he doesn't see anymore. Not blaming Mark. Circumstances in life are sometimes difficult.

People are ALWAYS more important than any sport or business. Sorry but that's my motto. Sport or business will go on whatever with lows and highs, but they will. People have only one life on this earth and it's hard enough without making it miserable with things that don't matter at the end of the day (or end of a life).

Some want loads of money... good luck to them. They won't have any use of it in their grave.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

the way snooker will ultimately go if yous let Hearn is towards golf where yes, players can play on as long as they want as theres no physical demands, but that there will be enough money in the game that they will earn a fortune in their 20s and 30s and to be honest they will be playing on for success and a legacy or just pure greed, moreso than the need to keep on playing to feed their families.

The likes of Schumacher in Formula One is a classic example, a guy thats set countless records that will never be beat, hell have 10o's of millions in the bank yet for the love of his sport he comes out of retirement and effectively risks his life every fortnight because hes passionate about his profession and its in his blood and he knows nothing else.

Same with the battle scarred boxers who cant help but fight on for one last fight.

At the end of the day regardless of whether theres £1 or a million pound at stake per tournament, these snooker players are similar and will play on as long as they can cos the sport is a drug. Steve Davis the classic example at the moment i guess.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Only that Steve Davis is rich. He made a lot of money when the game was peaking. It's easy for him to say things; he isn't facing the young players daily reality.
Snooker will never go the way golf has. It isn't glamourous enough. It will never have the money formula 1 is attracting: there is no market - like the automobile market - where research put in the top sport can be recycled and made profitable.
Snooker will never have the popularity of football: it's not compatible with rowdy boozy banter and dead idiotic celebrations.
Snooker is better than that but it will remain a minority sport.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:Only that Steve Davis is rich. He made a lot of money when the game was peaking. It's easy for him to say things; he isn't facing the young players daily reality.
Snooker will never go the way golf has. It isn't glamourous enough. It will never have the money formula 1 is attracting: there is no market - like the automobile market - where research put in the top sport can be recycled and made profitable.
Snooker will never have the popularity of football: it's not compatible with rowdy boozy banter and dead idiotic celebrations.
Snooker is better than that but it will remain a minority sport.

mon the potential now is far bigger than Steve Davis ever had .....all steve had was british tournaments and british cash reason he made money was because he won tournaments you been talking about WN 96 having a decent living out of snooker sorry but that never happened in the 80s or 90s either.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby mishcka

http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/NewsAr ... 52,00.html
WorldSnooker wrote:Further to the announcement yesterday on the date change for the early rounds of Players Tour Championship event 12, World Snooker wishes to engage in further consultation with the players to find the most suitable dates.
The entry deadline for PTC12 has therefore been put back to 12 NOON ON FRIDAY 2 DECEMBER in order to give more time for discussions with all professional players planning to enter.
Yesterday it was announced that the amateur pre-qualifier would be on Sunday 11 December, and the last 128 would be played down to 16 players on 15 and 16 December. But in the interests of fairness and transparency we are keen to listen to views from players on possible alternative dates, and any objections or concerns based on prior commitments.
We are committed to playing the final stages in Germany on 6, 7 and 8 January due to our contract with Eurosport but logistical problems have ruled out the option of playing the whole event at the venue.
The consultation process will continue in the early part of next week before a final decision is made.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/NewsAr ... 52,00.html
Consultation With Players On PTC12 Dates


Further to the announcement yesterday on the date change for the early rounds of Players Tour Championship event 12, World Snooker wishes to engage in further consultation with the players to find the most suitable dates.

The entry deadline for PTC12 has therefore been put back to 12 NOON ON FRIDAY 2 DECEMBER in order to give more time for discussions with all professional players planning to enter.

Yesterday it was announced that the amateur pre-qualifier would be on Sunday 11 December, and the last 128 would be played down to 16 players on 15 and 16 December. But in the interests of fairness and transparency we are keen to listen to views from players on possible alternative dates, and any objections or concerns based on prior commitments.

We are committed to playing the final stages in Germany on 6, 7 and 8 January due to our contract with Eurosport but logistical problems have ruled out the option of playing the whole event at the venue.

The consultation process will continue in the early part of next week before a final decision is made.


at least this is a positive step.

and Wild, I don't believe that the potential today is bigger, quite the opposite as society has changed and people today have a lot more choices regarding entertainment than before, including for free on the Internet.
And sorry but the likes of McCulloch, Harold and others will tell you they made much more then than now. Just talk to them... if you ever do.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

Monique wrote:Only that Steve Davis is rich. He made a lot of money when the game was peaking. It's easy for him to say things; he isn't facing the young players daily reality.
Snooker will never go the way golf has. It isn't glamourous enough. It will never have the money formula 1 is attracting: there is no market - like the automobile market - where research put in the top sport can be recycled and made profitable.
Snooker will never have the popularity of football: it's not compatible with rowdy boozy banter and dead idiotic celebrations.
Snooker is better than that but it will remain a minority sport.


sods law, had wrote a massive reply and then computer froze and it wouldnt post it <doh>

1- Davis deserves his wealth more than anyone in snooker, and he doesnt need the money but plays on so the argument that players would retire early if they earned lots of money doesnt cut it

2- Golfs hardly that glamorous, its still seen a stuffy old boys network and not a very female friendly sport. Its only 15 years ago that there was as much money in snooker as golf, then golf exploded, so why then cant snooker aim higher and catch it up again?

3 -formula 1 is on another level

4 - thats a snobby attitude to take, youd effectively rather that snooker stayed small and true to its priniciples than tried to move with the times and expand. A defeatists attitude too, unlike Hearn who aims high and maximises potentials.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/NewsArticles/0,,13165~2204252,00.html
Consultation With Players On PTC12 Dates


Further to the announcement yesterday on the date change for the early rounds of Players Tour Championship event 12, World Snooker wishes to engage in further consultation with the players to find the most suitable dates.

The entry deadline for PTC12 has therefore been put back to 12 NOON ON FRIDAY 2 DECEMBER in order to give more time for discussions with all professional players planning to enter.

Yesterday it was announced that the amateur pre-qualifier would be on Sunday 11 December, and the last 128 would be played down to 16 players on 15 and 16 December. But in the interests of fairness and transparency we are keen to listen to views from players on possible alternative dates, and any objections or concerns based on prior commitments.

We are committed to playing the final stages in Germany on 6, 7 and 8 January due to our contract with Eurosport but logistical problems have ruled out the option of playing the whole event at the venue.

The consultation process will continue in the early part of next week before a final decision is made.


at least this is a positive step.

and Wild, I don't believe that the potential today is bigger, quite the opposite as society has changed and people today have a lot more choices regarding entertainment than before, including for free on the Internet.
And sorry but the likes of McCulloch, Harold and others will tell you they made much more then than now. Just talk to them... if you ever do.


mon all snooker got in the 80s what british people got to see now its on a far larger scale if only people will start embraciing it and let it grow without all these pathetic digs and moaning.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby mediter

Wild wrote:
Monique wrote:http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/NewsArticles/0,,13165~2204252,00.html
Consultation With Players On PTC12 Dates


Further to the announcement yesterday on the date change for the early rounds of Players Tour Championship event 12, World Snooker wishes to engage in further consultation with the players to find the most suitable dates.

The entry deadline for PTC12 has therefore been put back to 12 NOON ON FRIDAY 2 DECEMBER in order to give more time for discussions with all professional players planning to enter.

Yesterday it was announced that the amateur pre-qualifier would be on Sunday 11 December, and the last 128 would be played down to 16 players on 15 and 16 December. But in the interests of fairness and transparency we are keen to listen to views from players on possible alternative dates, and any objections or concerns based on prior commitments.

We are committed to playing the final stages in Germany on 6, 7 and 8 January due to our contract with Eurosport but logistical problems have ruled out the option of playing the whole event at the venue.

The consultation process will continue in the early part of next week before a final decision is made.


at least this is a positive step.

and Wild, I don't believe that the potential today is bigger, quite the opposite as society has changed and people today have a lot more choices regarding entertainment than before, including for free on the Internet.
And sorry but the likes of McCulloch, Harold and others will tell you they made much more then than now. Just talk to them... if you ever do.


mon all snooker got in the 80s what british people got to see now its on a far larger scale if only people will start embraciing it and let it grow without all these pathetic digs and moaning.


Spot on, that´s exactly my words too

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

of course the potential now is far bigger

back then Snooker was exclusively a UK and Commonwealth sport, now its exploded in Europe and Asia as well as other potential markets opening up and being explored.

The time to cash in properly hasnt been fully tapped into yet, especially in China but im sure Hearn will exploit that soon enough.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

If he loses the players there is no potential at all. And don't be fooled. You don't replace a top player just like that. It's years of hard work to become one.
And, sure, everything has become more global, but the amount of distractions available in the media and on the Internet has exploded. I don't believe things are any easier now. Quite the opposite.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:of course the potential now is far bigger

back then Snooker was exclusively a UK and Commonwealth sport, now its exploded in Europe and Asia as well as other potential markets opening up and being explored.

The time to cash in properly hasnt been fully tapped into yet, especially in China but im sure Hearn will exploit that soon enough.

regarding china There NEEDS To be a explosion else where for Prize money withing China to Grow.

its all to comfterble China hasent got other competition thats why Brazil,Australia and India is Exciting..

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

whys football, golf and formula 1 became so big in the last 20 years if there so many "distractions" then

the snooker tour at the moment has a total of 6million prize money at stake

we should be aiming for 50 million at least

even thats loose change in the grand scale of things compared to other proper sports

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

Wild wrote:
Witz78 wrote:of course the potential now is far bigger

back then Snooker was exclusively a UK and Commonwealth sport, now its exploded in Europe and Asia as well as other potential markets opening up and being explored.

The time to cash in properly hasnt been fully tapped into yet, especially in China but im sure Hearn will exploit that soon enough.

regarding china There NEEDS To be a explosion else where for Prize money withing China to Grow.

its all to comfterble China hasent got other competition thats why Brazil,Australia and India is Exciting..


an money order of merit will sort all that

whether you like it as a ranking system or not, one things for sure, it will lead to people throwing money at events to boost their profile and importance just like tennis has the 250, 500, 1000 and 2000 ranking points events based on money at stake.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
Wild wrote:
Witz78 wrote:of course the potential now is far bigger

back then Snooker was exclusively a UK and Commonwealth sport, now its exploded in Europe and Asia as well as other potential markets opening up and being explored.

The time to cash in properly hasnt been fully tapped into yet, especially in China but im sure Hearn will exploit that soon enough.

regarding china There NEEDS To be a explosion else where for Prize money withing China to Grow.

its all to comfterble China hasent got other competition thats why Brazil,Australia and India is Exciting..


an money order of merit will sort all that

whether you like it as a ranking system or not, one things for sure, it will lead to people throwing money at events to boost their profile and importance just like tennis has the 250, 500, 1000 and 2000 ranking points events based on money at stake.

if that works then go for it but if it dont then back to points get a acurate rankings whitch prizemoney wont give us.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:whys football, golf and formula 1 became so big in the last 20 years if there so many "distractions" then

the snooker tour at the moment has a total of 6million prize money at stake

we should be aiming for 50 million at least

even thats loose change in the grand scale of things compared to other proper sports


Witz football was big when I was a kid and that's 50 years ago. Always was coz it suits the masses. Rough, tribal celebrations and booze and every kid can kick a ball in the street with their mates any time.
Formula1 gets loads of money injected in it partially because the technological improvements made in its context can be "downgraded" to average Joe's car and retroactively financed that way. Not so for snooker.
As for golf I admit I've no idea. I never followed it.

But snooker will never get there. It asks for too much effort to play it, it asks for actual thinking to enjoy it, it can't be played in a stadium and kids can't play it in the street, it's not fit for tribal celebration, it will not have technological retro-impact in every day's life. It's not that kind of sport. Snooker's only chance is to become trendy and glamourous and that won't happen with cheap events.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

well thats the thing, the tennis method is a good one

a snooker example could be

tournaments with prize fund up to 100k (PTCs ) - 2000 points to winner, etc
tournaments with prize fund up to 300k - 5000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund up to 500k - 7000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund up to 750k - 10000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund up to 1million - 15000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund over a million - 20000 points to the winner

the knock on effect would be that sponsors etc would pump in more money than they planned to make that event more significant, basically tournaments and events would almost be competing against each other commercially and no event would want to be seen as the poor relation and a lowly event that no-one was really fussed about

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:well thats the thing, the tennis method is a good one

a snooker example could be

tournaments with prize fund up to 100k (PTCs ) - 2000 points to winner, etc
tournaments with prize fund up to 300k - 5000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund up to 500k - 7000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund up to 750k - 10000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund up to 1million - 15000 points to the winner
tournaments with prize fund over a million - 20000 points to the winner

the knock on effect would be that sponsors etc would pump in more money than they planned to make that event more significant, basically tournaments and events would almost be competing against each other commercially and no event would want to be seen as the poor relation and a lowly event that no-one was really fussed about


And you will get no one to put that money on the table except for a couple of events maybe. That's it. They are just not interested because the image of snooker isn't big or glamorous enough.
I've tried to get logos from German companies for Mark Selby, Shaun Murphy and Ricky Walden prior to the German Masters last season. That was a very good event, in a top venue, in a main cosmopolitan city and broadcasted on Eurosport. I wrote dozens of mails. Got only 2 answers. One negative, one telling me they would come back to me later and never did. You will tell me that maybe I wasn't good enough. Maybe. But then nobody was, coz I wasn't the only one trying to get some and we all drew a blank.

I'm afraid that you are completely deluded about the real importance of snooker in the sporting world.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

if your that negative about snooker and think its so poor a product why do you even bother with it doh!

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:if your that negative about snooker and think its so poor a product why do you even bother with it doh!


I don't think it's a poor product, quite the opposite. I just think it's not the kind of product that will appeal to the masses nowadays.
And I bother with it because I enjoy the skills that are on display, both the technical abilities and the thinking. That's why I put significant effort, time and personal money to promote it.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

Monique wrote:
Witz78 wrote:if your that negative about snooker and think its so poor a product why do you even bother with it doh!


I don't think it's a poor product, quite the opposite. I just think it's not the kind of product that will appeal to the masses nowadays.
And I bother with it because I enjoy the skills that are on display, both the technical abilities and the thinking. That's why I put significant effort, time and personal money to promote it.


im sorry but if a random observer came across your posts theyd never guess your behind the scenes because youve a funny way of promoting the sport

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:
Monique wrote:
Witz78 wrote:if your that negative about snooker and think its so poor a product why do you even bother with it doh!


I don't think it's a poor product, quite the opposite. I just think it's not the kind of product that will appeal to the masses nowadays.
And I bother with it because I enjoy the skills that are on display, both the technical abilities and the thinking. That's why I put significant effort, time and personal money to promote it.


im sorry but if a random observer came across your posts theyd never guess your behind the scenes because youve a funny way of promoting the sport


I think that traveling to venues, taking and publishing pictures on the go on my own expenses, and giving them for free to the players, especially to low ranked and young ones to help them with sponsoring is not a funny way to promote the sport. I actually think it's a quite efficient and down-to-earth way to do that.
I don't believe in lies and misleading publicity. The truth is that most players are struggling and that attention should be given to proper reward and quality in events so that it's made sustainable for the players - provided they put enough effort into it of course - and to develop an image that is appealing to the sponsors, and that definitely can't be a "cheap" image.
And I don't worship any individual as successful as they might be. Barry Hearn has achieved a lot in his career, but he hasn't turned everything he touched into gold, and in this occurrence I think he's trying to go too fast and doesn't give some of his endeavours the close hands-on attention they need to succeed. That's what I'm voicing here. The players are his most valuable asset and he should listen more to their needs. Not every complain is justified of course, but a lot of them are at least to an extend.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

Monique wrote:Wild, Sonny ,

Neither Shaun nor Mark have children yet (*). Their priorities might and will change no doubt if/when they have them. Snooker is not a sport where you retire at 30, with a fortune, and then can focus on whatever is important to you. You have to carry on well beyond that.


Oh :zzz: with all that stuff about kids Monique. It's got sod all to do with competitive snooker. If you have kids and your level drops it's called life. It's always been like this in sport, then the younger, hungrier generation come through and win all the big ones. If you're really good you'll come back after you've had kids and do it all again like Williams and Higgins, if you've not done it in the first place and go off and have kids then you're not going to do it when you come back. To get the records in any sport you've got to be driven and put your profession ahead of everything in life, to make a living and a name for yourself without the records you have families. Sport moves on, younger generations should dominate with only the best of the previous generation staying in the mix. That's called sport and it goes on everywhere.