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More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Yesterday WSA issued this http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/NewsAr ... 41,00.html
Due to technical issues with the non TV playing arena at the selected venue in Munich, World Snooker and Dragonstars Event Management have made the decision to take only the last 16 players to the final venue. This means all 16 players will compete on the TV table in Munich.

As a result, the first three rounds of the PTC12 will be played at the World Snooker Academy, Sheffield, therefore leaving 16 players in the competition.

For the benefit of the players and taking everything into consideration including travel and accommodation, both PTC 11 and PTC 12 will be played as follows:

Saturday, 10 December 2011: PTC 11 - amateur pre qualifier
Sunday, 11 December 2011: PTC 12 - Amateur pre qualifier
Thursday, 15 December 2011: PTC 12 - Top Half:Last 128 - Last 32
Friday, 16 December 2011: PTC12 - Bottom Half: Last 128 - Last 32
Saturday, 17 December 2011: PTC 11 - Top Half: Last 128 - Last 32
Sunday, 18 December 2011: PTC 11 - Bottom Half: Last 128 - Last 32
Monday, 19 December 2011: PTC 11 - Last 16 - Final
Friday, 6 January 2012: PTC12 - Last 16
Saturday, 7 January 2012: PTC12 - Last 16 and QFs
Sunday, 8 January 2012: PTC12 - SFs and Final

All players who have entered PTC 12 or amateurs players who have entered PTC 11 who do not now wish to compete in the respective events will be offered a refund of their entry fee(s). To receive a refund please email entries@worldsnooker.com quoting the invoice number from the confirmation email you received upon entry together with the name of the person on the payment card.

All refunds will be made to the original payment card and requests must be received by 5.00 pm Monday, 28 November 2011.Any withdrawals after this date will not receive a refund.

Prize money for all rounds of PTC12 will be paid by Dragonstars Event Management in euros as per the original entry pack and it will still be classed as a European PTC and will count as such on the PTC Order of Merit.

We do apologise for any inconvenience this may cause you and if you have any questions do contact the Bristol Office.Please remember closing date for PTC 11 and PTC12 is 5.00 pm on Monday, 28 November 2011.


Dave Hendon hinted on twitter that the "technical reason" is in fact that the floor at the venue in Munich isn't suited for hosting a snooker tournament (tables are heavy things). Now surely the poor floor has suddenly weakened at the thought of hosting such prestigious event! Seriously though, if this is true it illustrates once more the lack of attention to quality and proper preparation that goes into those events and it's a shame as they should be the backbone to develop snooker in Europe. And once again the players will be the main victims of it. They now face a completely hectic week just after the UK . The players have until Monday to change their plans if they can. This is very short notice.

Janie Watkins reaction on twitter was "fuming"

now massive clash on 10-11 dec - PTC Am rounds and EASB Pro Ticket tour. players can't play in both at same time.

not so good for players with clashing events, cancelling holidays, wasted flight bookings. etc

And she's right. Flights are already expensive enough especially at this time of the year and most players intending to play in PTC12 will have booked the flight to Munich already without flexibility to spare some money.

For the paying public in Munich, WSA have "smartly" diluted the last 16 and onwards over 3 days, so they can't complain ... they will see snooker ... they will see whoever comes through to the last 16. One of the plusses of the PTCs is that the audience has the opportunity to see a lot of different players in action, including the top ones even if they are knocked out early. Not here then.

I wish the players had the guts to mount a massive boycott. Keep dreaming girl ... >-(

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

That's a hell of a post-UK and pre-xmas schedule for the players. Ronnie and others definitely won't enter now.

Also now the amateurs are playing on the same day as the UK semi and final.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:That's a hell of a post-UK and pre-xmas schedule for the players. Ronnie and others definitely won't enter now.

Also now the amateurs are playing on the same day as the UK semi and final.


Yes and ams will have to chose between Pro Ticket tour and PTC... Barry Hearn :bowdown: he!

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

Life is about making the right choices.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:Life is about making the right choices.


And taking the right decisions. The "quick wins" have been one of the major themes for managers in recent times, not just in snooker, all over the business eco-system, and they often are recipe for disaster in the long term. Which doesn't trouble so many managers because another major theme is "move around" ... and don't look back at the shambles you leave behind you.
I've seen this in my job only too often and too close-up not to know the signs.
Sorry for not joining the praise hymns, I just can't if I'm honest with myself.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

Stupid Germans not building a place with a decent floor <doh>

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:Stupid Germans not building a place with a decent floor <doh>


Is it them who built the Crucible then? Coz the floor has to be re-inforced and supported every year for the WC ... :chin:

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

Yeah but it's the English who do all the re-inforcing.

...come to think of it it's probably an English foreman and Polish workers

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

who ever booked the venue is at fault here my bet is Brendan Parker isnt he involved in Running PTC on the continent.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

seriously monique what do you want

players look happy with this shambles shouldnt you be it saves them paying for the trip isnt that what you want.

MikeDunnSnooker Mike Dunn
Really pleased I don't have to travel to Germany in ptc unless I qualify, saves pennies :)

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Bourne

More workload for the players is a good thing, I like seeing them tested and seeing who is the strongest to come through the other side <ok>

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

Wild wrote:who ever booked the venue is at fault here my bet is Brendan Parker isnt he involved in Running PTC on the continent.


I believe so.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Wild wrote:seriously monique what do you want

players look happy with this shambles shouldnt you be it saves them paying for the trip isnt that what you want.

MikeDunnSnooker Mike Dunn
Really pleased I don't have to travel to Germany in ptc unless I qualify, saves pennies :)


I want quality events where players who win at least two matches wouldn't be off their pockets. Is that so daft?
After all it's the image of snooker that is at stake and it's that image that will attract sponsors or not.

So I'd rather have 20 quality events rather than 30, 1/3 of them poorly run and poorly rewarded. 20 is significantly more than the former 6 and more than there ever was in the calendar even in the peak days of the sport. There is absolutely no need to have 30 events, and no sense to organise them without proper resources. This is the third PTC , supposedly European, that has been relocated to UK for various reasons.
Some of the PTCs were great: the Paul Hunter Classic, the Suzanne Kay Trophy and the Accuerate Antwerp Open spring to mind.
The Alex Higgins International Trophy was poor, the crowd was poor and there was a lot of dissatisfaction among the players with numbers of refs not showing up because of the lack of financial reward. Not surprising after the Poland experience. Crowds were good in Poland but other aspects were really bad. For instance, the refs, who were there on their own expenses, had been put in a rather shabby hotel that was 15 km from the venue, without organised transportation. When you know that they start at least one hour before the players and finish well after them... this was really poor.
I want people: players, officials, referees to be treated properly. Nothing fancy or luxuous. Just properly. I don't think it's too much to ask. Especially when you know that some of those events have been broadcasted by no less that 5 Chinese television channels... someone I'm sure did make money, but it's neither the players, nor the referees, nor the hard working officials on the venues.

And don't anyone tell me that I don't want snooker to grow, because that's utter tosh. I do want snooker to grow, and to grow in a sustainable way. To achieve that it must make sure that the sport is attractive to sponsors - good image and prestige - and to young people who could possible see it as a career and their parents - enough perspective of making a decent living out of it.
Experimenting right, left and centre without proper funding and squeezing the players financially is not the way to achieve this.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

and ive said it before and ill say it again the World Champoionship was a shambles in it first few years its triel and error then they will get it right it was stupidaty of the highest order by brendan parker for not spotting ther venue was marmite from day one.

Barry Hearn knows all this he doesent need you at every opertunity pointing out flaws he knows and doesent care at the moment and neither should these bunch of moning children that think they actually are snooker players.

if in 5 years time things not better then ill join in the moaning but things takes time and if i was barry hearn listening to all these selfish premadonas moaning id not hurry at all to get it right.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Sickpotter

It's easy to have a go a Barry and complain about scheduling etc. but events take time to realize their potential.

Packing the calendar for the first couple of years before refining the schedule is the right way to go, it gives the most opportunities for events to flourish and provide a solid tour for years to come.

IMO it's nothing but foolishness to be whining about a busy schedule and if players have problems with events and how they're run they need to speak up and voice their issues so that the appropriate changes can be made in the future.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

Sickpotter wrote:It's easy to have a go a Barry and complain about scheduling etc. but events take time to realize their potential.

Packing the calendar for the first couple of years before refining the schedule is the right way to go, it gives the most opportunities for events to flourish and provide a solid tour for years to come.

IMO it's nothing but foolishness to be whining about a busy schedule and if players have problems with events and how they're run they need to speak up and voice their issues so that the appropriate changes can be made in the future.

thats just it they have voiced their concern but for some bizare reason they think moan once barry will change things and because he hasent the moaning just goes on and on and on ....

your right sickpotter how its done is the right way to do it .....then these players complaining about sheffield PTC...well for buck sakes Barry Hearn been a sport promoter for 30+ years he is not in the buisness of Promoting for nobody to watch so the sheffield PTC is something he dont need himself but the Building was there so he had to use it....these players seem to think they Telling Barry Hearn something he doesent Know <doh> <doh>

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:That's a hell of a post-UK and pre-xmas schedule for the players. Ronnie and others definitely won't enter now.

Also now the amateurs are playing on the same day as the UK semi and final.


why wont they enter?

there getting a 2 and a half week christmas break to play Happy Families which is more than us normal people will be getting, so they should get on with it :no:

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Wild wrote:
Sickpotter wrote:It's easy to have a go a Barry and complain about scheduling etc. but events take time to realize their potential.

Packing the calendar for the first couple of years before refining the schedule is the right way to go, it gives the most opportunities for events to flourish and provide a solid tour for years to come.

IMO it's nothing but foolishness to be whining about a busy schedule and if players have problems with events and how they're run they need to speak up and voice their issues so that the appropriate changes can be made in the future.

thats just it they have voiced their concern but for some bizare reason they think moan once barry will change things and because he hasent the moaning just goes on and on and on ....

your right sickpotter how its done is the right way to do it .....then these players complaining about sheffield PTC...well for little kitten sakes Barry Hearn been a sport promoter for 30+ years he is not in the buisness of Promoting for nobody to watch so the sheffield PTC is something he dont need himself but the Building was there so he had to use it....these players seem to think they Telling Barry Hearn something he doesent Know <doh> <doh>



It amuses me how this is the "right way" just because you fail to see the problems the players are facing while you get mad at the same Barry Hearn because he shortened the UK for the first three rounds which at least has some rationale behind it, namely put all matches on TV and hence give all players who made it to the venue better exposure and better opportunities for sponsoring. Not that the change makes me jump with joy, but I can see some benefits to it.
Now you have to explain to me how the Sheffield PTCs, played in front of nobody are contributing to develop the game worldwide and boost the players exposure because that's a mystery to me. So I definitely can't see why the resources put in those events can't be re-injected into the other ones to make them better quality and more rewarding. It would also un-clutter the calendar a bit and free some human resources that could be used to give the European events some more hands-on close follow-up. This is much needed as organising and running a tournament when you never did that before isn't a straightforward task.
Last edited by Monique on 25 Nov 2011, edited 1 time in total.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:
Sonny wrote:That's a hell of a post-UK and pre-xmas schedule for the players. Ronnie and others definitely won't enter now.

Also now the amateurs are playing on the same day as the UK semi and final.


why wont they enter?

there getting a 2 and a half week christmas break to play Happy Families which is more than us normal people will be getting, so they should get on with it :no:


Some of them have other commitments private or professional, and, regarding the latter, the contracts were signed when the spots were free in the calendar and with WSA approval. ROS and Jack Lisowski have an exhibition in Bulgaria for instance.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

thats the point players complain of overworked wanting to spend more time with families etc then they get free time where are they down the park on the swings no bloody bulgaria <doh>

if there was a PTC in bulgario just look at the face pulled by Ronnie then

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Monique

Wild wrote:thats the point players complain of overworked wanting to spend more time with families etc then they get free time where are they down the park on the swings no bloody bulgaria <doh>

if there was a PTC in bulgario just look at the face pulled by Ronnie then


Ronnie has gone to all PTCS abroad bar Poland right? He's top of the table currently so it's not as if he put no efforts in them even if he has criticised them.
The exhibition is in the middle of the week, while he has his kids from Friday evening till Monday morning so it's not interfering with that.
Shut up when you don't know the facts OK?

This last minute rescheduling is a problem for many people including part of the amateurs you are so keen to defend, because it now clashes with a Pro Ticket event that some of them, no doubt, will have entered. It will also mean wasted money for quite a few who have already booked their planes and hotels. Not to mention the audience that will not get what they expected.
Stop worshipping everything Barry Hearn does, as long as it does not impact you of course, open your eyes and accept that he is not always right.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

its fast becoming aparant being a proffesional sport is getting in the way of money making exhibition matches...

here we go again snooker players self intrests.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby snooky147

Once again the WSA show their ineptness, this time in ensuring that a venue is fit for purpose. I do know that in Graeme's case he had already paid for his flight to Germany so thats money down the drain I suppose. Monique, you will never, no matter what your arguement(and they are good, rational arguements) get either witz or wild to agree that the players do indeed matter in anyway, that having time with family matters in any way or indeed just saying that you want to stay home and practice without the fear of losing ranking points and with Hearn's stated intention of Snooker every week in the year, well something's gotta give. He has to put in place a best of xxxx tournaments out of xxxx that count towards rankings. The possibility that all the top players will miss all the same ones would be remote.
Just a thought.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Witz78

hold on mate

i agree to some extents with Monique when it comes to the young players who should get a fair crack of the whip etc

but it seems shed rather the Rodney Walker tour was in place so the players had plenty of time to put the feet up watching tv and changing nappies

there meant to be professional sportsmen so they should get on with it. these guys in their 30s are the lazy generation who have been used to having lots of free time between events, so this Hearn shake up has spoiled their cosy little lifes which has got their backs up. Hopefully the hungry new generation will seize the opportunity and show these workshy guys what it takes

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

snooky147 wrote:Once again the WSA show their ineptness, this time in ensuring that a venue is fit for purpose. I do know that in Graeme's case he had already paid for his flight to Germany so thats money down the drain I suppose. Monique, you will never, no matter what your arguement(and they are good, rational arguements) get either witz or wild to agree that the players do indeed matter in anyway, that having time with family matters in any way or indeed just saying that you want to stay home and practice without the fear of losing ranking points and with Hearn's stated intention of Snooker every week in the year, well something's gotta give. He has to put in place a best of xxxx tournaments out of xxxx that count towards rankings. The possibility that all the top players will miss all the same ones would be remote.
Just a thought.

yes if theres snooker every week of the year there has to be a structuire in place thats different to now both me and witz agree it would be impossible to play everything but realistic the callender as it is now is not that tough it really isnt yes its tough for snooker players thats very clear but not in the real world.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Sickpotter

Monique wrote:
Wild wrote:thats the point players complain of overworked wanting to spend more time with families etc then they get free time where are they down the park on the swings no bloody bulgaria <doh>

if there was a PTC in bulgario just look at the face pulled by Ronnie then


Ronnie has gone to all PTCS abroad bar Poland right? He's top of the table currently so it's not as if he put no efforts in them even if he has criticised them.
The exhibition is in the middle of the week, while he has his kids from Friday evening till Monday morning so it's not interfering with that.
Shut up when you don't know the facts OK?

This last minute rescheduling is a problem for many people including part of the amateurs you are so keen to defend, because it now clashes with a Pro Ticket event that some of them, no doubt, will have entered. It will also mean wasted money for quite a few who have already booked their planes and hotels. Not to mention the audience that will not get what they expected.
Stop worshipping everything Barry Hearn does, as long as it does not impact you of course, open your eyes and accept that he is not always right.


Yeah, Barry should quit and the players should go back to the 7 events a year. <doh>

Levelling criticism on Barry for bringing in too many events is plain stupid. Like it or not this is how you develop a proper circuit. Start large and prune it down as events take hold or don't.

It amazes me that those with ZERO experience in sports promotion seem to think it's fair to attack someone with 30+ years of solid experience when the man hasn't even had a year to get things running.

I'm in no way saying everything is perfect but FFS it takes time to revive a circuit that was all but dead.

IMO players should provide feedback for each event to Barry and let him do what he does best. He will address concerns, give him the time to do it.

If 2 years from now there are still scheduling screw ups, bad venues, etc. then fans and players alike have a legitimate complaint and can have their go at the man but until then, stop whining like little kids who didn't get dessert.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Wildey

yup feedback to barry not via the sun,daily express,any other paper or anyone that will listen via twitter...

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby snooky147

Oh for gods sake cant you lot get it into your heads that we DO NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO SIX OR SEVEN EVENTS A YEAR
We do want a more balanced and structured approach in order to maximise the revenue that is there and to be able to reward ALL the 100 players on the tour with a guaranteed minimum. After all, the lower ranked players qualified to play as pro's. There should be no events where they should not at least break even expense wise. Is that really too much to ask? Then as resources and money becomes available by all means expand further. I for one am not against Hearn's stated intention of a tourney every week of the year but they have got to be viable for ALL.

Re: More PTC shambles

Postby Roland

This latest situation is unfortunate and there has been an air of slap dash about the way this season has been cobbled together but wait and see what the landscape is like in 2 or 3 seasons time before criticising Hearn. He deserves at least 5 years in the job before saying it's either worked or hasn't worked.

I'm with Snooky and most people I speak to who think next season we can't be in a position where every single event counts towards ranking. Players do need time to practice and settle at home with their families to give themselves the best chance in upcoming events. At the moment the only thing causing the unrest is the PTCs and that's because they're crammed together at the start of the season and in batches of 3 or 4 don't allow that time to practice and chill out. So the immediate concern should be to allow players to only count x PTCs to their ranking and not 100%. That also means for those who play in them all they are only allowed to use their best x results toward their ranking. The money list however remains so if you do play in all of them you stand a better chance of finishing in the top 24 and getting to the grand finals, which SHOULD and indeed do carry significant ranking points.

I'm sure lessons will be learnt for next season. Indeed lessons were learnt from last season to this, for example playing those behind closed doors PTCs during the week and not weekends.


   

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