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Is the Best of 7 Frames now Snooker's standard sprint?

Yes
3
50%
No
3
50%
 
Total votes : 6

Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby PLtheRef

Since the Hearn revolution began 23 months ago Snooker has certainly changed. Different formats being banded about as well as new conventions on the old game. Some of these have proven successful e.g. the PTC events, some of these moves in the revolution have struck fans hard and four days next week and six days in York in December will judge whether Hearn has made the first big error of his premiership.

Now I'm one for the longer formats but have warmed to the shorter versions of the game which I've done in my time as a referee. Matches of best of 7 frames are not as unappealing as they were before the revolution began. For the record, in terms of frames the longest distance I have refereed is best of nine frames.

All of that however doesnt mean I like shorter tournaments and I still believe that the UK should have been a two session event even if this meant that matches in the earlier rounds were best of 13 frames up until the semi-finals with semis 17 and final 19. Of course providing a schedule of 24 matches over five days on TV would need to be considered but with the roll on, roll off format the tournament became known for now being more available as sessions would only be 6/7 compared to 8/9 which naturally made the scheduling more awkward unless a third television table or acceptance of untelevised venue tables was accepted.

We now have a circuit where the majority of the events are now played using best of seven frames as the format. Now many will argue that this is only bringing forward the winning post by one frame, the way in which sessions work has changed. No mid match intervals in these best of 7s means that the idea of winning the four frame minisession 3-1 no longer applies.

It also can provide the false diacotemy that the best of 11 is now a middle of the road format. - Now I know that many will say that I proposed something which is no more different in the 13 frame UK matches considering what snooker's basic sprint has been but a two session dynamic is totally different to a one session dynamic in terms of preparation.

But now that we have a growing calendar where nine frame matches once the stable diet of snooker tournaments are now being scaled back, is the best of 7 format now snooker's standard sprint race?

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Tubberlad

Absolutely! The best-of-7 format has now become the norm for the tour, with the previous best-of-9 standard tournament falling by the wayside, 14 (possibly more) of the tournaments taking place this season incorporate best-of-7's.

I remember we were discussing how the China Open could be in need of a longer format to be considered the new fourth major, but one poster (I think it was snookerfan) interestingly pointed out that with so many best-of-7's, and the UK being reduced, the current China Open format puts it ahead of the vast majority of tournaments now and not too far behind the second most important ranking event.

One thing for sure, it has highlighted one thing: the best-of-9 format was actually a cracking format, but we saw so much of it that we grew tired of it... not the case any more.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby SnookerFan

It depends where you are having them, for me.

I think they are fine for things such as PTCs, which aren't particularly presitgious. The PTCs big benefit is that they keep the players playing when there aren't any full rankers on. So having best of sevens, and getting a lot of matches into three days is fine.

Personally, I don't think the best of seven should become the norm though. Sometimes you'll see a decent best of seven match, but when I was at the Welsh Open I saw Mark Williams win a best-of-seven in about 40 minutes, winning 4-0. Somehow I felt robbed of an actual match. I always liked best of nines in rankers, and never thought they grew as stale as other people were saying they did.

I'd be happy if best-of-sevens were confined to PTCs, and events such as the Premier League, Snooker Seniors and other such exhibition events. One short ranker, perhapes. But I don't think we should put the emphasis on shortening ranking events as being the way forwards.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Wildey

im a fan of interval snooker it gives players that has been outplayed a chance to re group and come back fighting some of the best matches has been decided on intervals and what was a initial boring rout has been classic matches none more so than the 1985 WC Final.

in PTC Best of 7 no interval makes perfect sense theres just no time for intervals.

but lets not start to kid ourself that best of 7s no intervals = best matches....heard comentators on eurosport say these short no interval matches are exciting just straight through i disagree and best of 7s should stay in PTC and not cross over in to mainstream snooker.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby SnookerFan

Wild wrote:im a fan of interval snooker it gives players that has been outplayed a chance to re group and come back fighting some of the best matches has been decided on intervals and what was a initial boring rout has been classic matches none more so than the 1985 WC Final.

in PTC Best of 7 no interval makes perfect sense theres just no time for intervals.

but lets not start to kid ourself that best of 7s no intervals = best matches....heard comentators on eurosport say these short no interval matches are exciting just straight through i disagree and best of 7s should stay in PTC and not cross over in to mainstream snooker.


Like the Welsh Open? rofl

I agree though, actually. I was going to raise a point on how people felt towards the MSI. I've heard people say it's unfair because it stops momentum. I've even heard suggestions that best-of-nines shouldn't have them. I think it brings excitement though. And like you say, can turn a match.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Wildey

in the mid 80s they played the British open with best of 11 Qualifying matches but because of TV reduced it to Best of 9 for last 16 and Q/F with best of 17 semi and best of 25 final.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Wildey

yeah for the one cockerel up regarding the UK in association of the bbc hes far from a disgrace in less than 18 months hes had overall control hes transformed the game from a hobby to a proffesion.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Tubberlad

Wild wrote:yeah for the one cockerel up regarding the UK in association of the bbc hes far from a disgrace in less than 18 months hes had overall control hes transformed the game from a hobby to a proffesion.

Absolutely true, and the fact that best-of-7's have become the mainstay now doesn't bother me that much, we have so many tournaments now and this game has now moved up so many steps under Hearn. His chairmanship has been a very positive thing.

However, the changes to the UK Championship are beyond a joke. The main problem with the UK was the lack of a permanent home at a top venue, not the format. We need at the very least two marathon events during the season, we now have just one. They've basically scrapped the UK and renamed the Grand Prix the UK Championship :?

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Wildey

there was a format problem but id be easy about the TV Stages starting at the last 16

there might be a case at this event to employ Witz idea of seeding the Top 8 in to the Last 16 and let the Others fight it out for 8 Spots in the Last 16 as Qualifiers and play Best of 17..

All players with good Results can get in to the Top 8 in the Rankings and therefore Seeded for the UK.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Sickpotter

I like that there are lots of new events but I'm not terribly happy with the short formats.

It's my understanding that for the most part, format changes were made to accomodate TV coverage and IMO it was a mistake to change the format in order to accomodate TV. There was another option and I wonder how much it was looked at.

Why do we need full match coverage, begining to end? Most people would rather watch individual match highlights and such, snooker has a huge fan base that's only interested in breakbuilding. Let's face it, the only people who want to see every second of the match are the die hard fans but did we need to change event formats?

Match highlights could be afforded a time slot and edited to showcase the best of each match in a format that falls within the required time length for TV.

The breakbuilding fan base is happy because they're not going to be exposed to an aspect of the game they don't care for (safety/scrappy games).

Traditionalists are happy because the format could remain longer.

TV is happy because the sport can now easily be fit into a static time frame.

Voila, no format changes needed, plenty of TV coverage showcasing the best entertainment the game has to offer.

That's just my take on the changes. I'll still watch shorter format events like PTCs but I think there was a better solution to accomodating TV coverage and raising the profile of the game.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Wildey

dont think the problem was highlights the fact there was 2 matches without camera looking at them so highlighting thoes matches was impossible.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Monique

Sickpotter wrote:I like that there are lots of new events but I'm not terribly happy with the short formats.

It's my understanding that for the most part, format changes were made to accomodate TV coverage and IMO it was a mistake to change the format in order to accomodate TV. There was another option and I wonder how much it was looked at.

Why do we need full match coverage, begining to end? Most people would rather watch individual match highlights and such, snooker has a huge fan base that's only interested in breakbuilding. Let's face it, the only people who want to see every second of the match are the die hard fans but did we need to change event formats?

Match highlights could be afforded a time slot and edited to showcase the best of each match in a format that falls within the required time length for TV.

The breakbuilding fan base is happy because they're not going to be exposed to an aspect of the game they don't care for (safety/scrappy games).

Traditionalists are happy because the format could remain longer.

TV is happy because the sport can now easily be fit into a static time frame.

Voila, no format changes needed, plenty of TV coverage showcasing the best entertainment the game has to offer.

That's just my take on the changes. I'll still watch shorter format events like PTCs but I think there was a better solution to accomodating TV coverage and raising the profile of the game.


Well allow me to differ on that. One reason why I actually like short formats, not necessarily best of 7, but one session matches is because they are "self contained". I'm absolutely peeved when I can't see a match as a whole, from first to last ball.
We could have long formats at nauseam if they were played behind closed doors at the Academy but what's the point if the fans can't watch them?
That's also one reason why I'm think best of 35 is really the longest we can reasonably follow. That's 4 full sessions and more of it would "dilute" the story of the match. Maybe I have a poor visual memory but that's really as much as I can take without losing the "thread" of the action.
Also your "solution" would suffer from the fact that someone has to decide what to show. Just imagine that the one(s) who do decide(s) to show only the big breaks and none of the safety battles. Would that satisfy you?
I'm afraid there isn't a solution that would satisfy everyone.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Roland

I like best of 7s because there's no interval and as long as it's not in a ranking event with prestige (i.e. anything from China Open to the Welsh) then I have no problem with it. If you play someone and you know it's a best of 7 you'll fancy your chances if you're good enough but in a best of 5 you know if you don't start off well you're doomed. So as to the question is it the new sprint format then yes, definitely.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Sickpotter

Monique, for us die hard fans who want to see all the safety battles and every step of the match the solution is to go to an event. Sure we'd like it to be freely available on TV but if programming time slots doesn't allow for a whole match to be shown should we change the game we love? I'd rather they change the way the coverage is done than see the format change.

Like it or not, the new fan base has little or no interest in safety. Safety is not something that attracts viewers so why showcase it?

It's nice to be able to watch a sporting match beginning to end on the TV but certain sports just don't allow for it now that 20 mins of ever hour needs to be set aside for ads and there are hard stop/start times with no room for matches that last longer.

I don't watch cricket but I find it hard to believe they'd cover those on TV from beginning to end, what have they done for that?

Why are you peeved when you can't watch one self-contained match? IMO that allows for the greatest drama/suspense the game can offer.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby PLtheRef

Sickpotter wrote:Monique, for us die hard fans who want to see all the safety battles and every step of the match the solution is to go to an event. Sure we'd like it to be freely available on TV but if programming time slots doesn't allow for a whole match to be shown should we change the game we love? I'd rather they change the way the coverage is done than see the format change.

Like it or not, the new fan base has little or no interest in safety. Safety is not something that attracts viewers so why showcase it?

It's nice to be able to watch a sporting match beginning to end on the TV but certain sports just don't allow for it now that 20 mins of ever hour needs to be set aside for ads and there are hard stop/start times with no room for matches that last longer.

I don't watch cricket but I find it hard to believe they'd cover those on TV from beginning to end, what have they done for that?

Why are you peeved when you can't watch one self-contained match? IMO that allows for the greatest drama/suspense the game can offer.


Important point there. Naturally in the UK and with events on BBC Television there are no ad breaks as the BBC receives its funding from UK licences - however this is different aborad and on Sky/ITV.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Monique

it's not about having it for free. Neither you nor me live in a country where there are top snooker events. I do travel quite a lot for snooker but I can't go to everything. So then TV or streaming are the only options.
As for the new fan base, well, they certainly will not appreciate safety if they never get to watch them. There is a learning curve for everything and snooker is rich and complex. But for people to learn they must be given the opportunity.
As for why I'm peeved.... well I don't know, I just am. People are different and it's one of the beauty of snooker that you can watch it and appreciate it in so many different ways.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby PLtheRef

Wild wrote:in the mid 80s they played the British open with best of 11 Qualifying matches but because of TV reduced it to Best of 9 for last 16 and Q/F with best of 17 semi and best of 25 final.


The disgrace in that respect was that at the British Open the first round was untelevised and played over best of 11 frames moving to nine for round two. In round one Steve Davis beat Tony Chappel from 5-4 behind whereas if that was a second round match Chappel obviously would have won.

I've no problem with a standard qualifying format like they do in BDO darts where every tournaments qualifying rounds are either best of 11 legs or best of 3 sets. Then when the finals begin a new format takes place.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby PLtheRef

it's not about having it for free. Neither you nor me live in a country where there are top snooker events. I do travel quite a lot for snooker but I can't go to everything. So then TV or streaming are the only options.


Thats to your enormous credit.


As for the new fan base, well, they certainly will not appreciate safety if they never get to watch them. There is a learning curve for everything and snooker is rich and complex. But for people to learn they must be given the opportunity.
As for why I'm peeved.... well I don't know, I just am. People are different and it's one of the beauty of snooker that you can watch it and appreciate it in so many different ways.


Indeed

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Sickpotter

Monique wrote:it's not about having it for free. Neither you nor me live in a country where there are top snooker events. I do travel quite a lot for snooker but I can't go to everything. So then TV or streaming are the only options.
As for the new fan base, well, they certainly will not appreciate safety if they never get to watch them. There is a learning curve for everything and snooker is rich and complex. But for people to learn they must be given the opportunity.
As for why I'm peeved.... well I don't know, I just am. People are different and it's one of the beauty of snooker that you can watch it and appreciate it in so many different ways.


Yes, in some scenarios TV is the only option but again, some sports just don't fit into the required timelines for live broadcasting so editing the available footage to show the best entertainment you can is paramount.

You don't learn to appreciate safety until you've got a very solid understanding of the game and the tactics involved. How long before you understood the game before you developed an appreciation for snooker? What initially attracted you to the sport? I'll hazard a guess it wasn't the amazing safety play to start with ;-)

Safety play does not attract new viewers because they've yet to learn the nuances of the game that allows you to appreciate the safety aspect. In order to attract new viewers you need to showcase what will initially grab their attention and that's big breaks, fast play and great potting. That can be done via highlights rather than attempting to show all matches beginning to end.

I know that snooker coverage in Canada has never ever covered a single match beginning to end, everything has been highlights or just key points in the match.

How do they handle broadcasting cricket matches? Do the ever actually televise a whole match?

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Monique

What attracted me to the sport wasn't big breaks. In my country the cue sport that is part of our "culture" is pocketless: it's carom for the beginners, 3-cushions for the advanced. What attracted me to cue sports initially was fascination for the geometry of the game, the physics of the balls and the skills involved. I'm a mathematician, that's my background.

As for cricket, I don't know as I never watch it (and never understood any of it ... and never really tried to TBH)

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby Roland

Sickpotter wrote:How do they handle broadcasting cricket matches? Do the ever actually televise a whole match?


Oh yes, all 5 days of test matches regularly without missing a ball! Thing is it's broken up into 1 to 2 hour slots between sessions which suited the BBC to fit news bulletins and kids lunchtime tv programmes around, but then when it went onto other channels with adverts they took a quick commercial after every over i.e. 6 balls while the players change ends. Then you've got Sky with specialsed sports channels that not only has cricket live end to end, but also fills in the gaps with cricket analysis etc. The stupid thing is, when entire days are rained off, they still broadcast cricket and chat for ages in the studio with rain beating down on the windows instead of showing something else.

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby PLtheRef

Sonny wrote:
Sickpotter wrote:How do they handle broadcasting cricket matches? Do the ever actually televise a whole match?


Oh yes, all 5 days of test matches regularly without missing a ball! Thing is it's broken up into 1 to 2 hour slots between sessions which suited the BBC to fit news bulletins and kids lunchtime tv programmes around, but then when it went onto other channels with adverts they took a quick commercial after every over i.e. 6 balls while the players change ends. Then you've got Sky with specialsed sports channels that not only has cricket live end to end, but also fills in the gaps with cricket analysis etc. The stupid thing is, when entire days are rained off, they still broadcast cricket and chat for ages in the studio with rain beating down on the windows instead of showing something else.


Yes but Cricket is a sport which can also be comfortably commentated on the radio. - Thats where I listen to the majority of my cricket. Snooker though it has been done before is much harder to do so

Re: Is the Best of 7 Frames, the new snooker sprint?

Postby mediter

Yeah, the Hearn revolution has just worked so well and good.... Really really looking forward rest of the season. Not to even mention next season already..

Currently I am in the same boat as wild, as he wrote they are making him withdrawals <laugh> <laugh> <laugh> <laugh> But is just brilliant and great and like wild said, it´s a real deal now with the game which is obviously more than great news. Everyone who wants to be in the game has to sort of pay their licence now ! So you do feel they are making you some withdrawals like wild wrote. But it´s just great for the game, the structure is right which it hasn´t always been.

And yes, I think best of 7 frames works just fine in PTC. No mid-session interval which I always thought was a pretty silly when playing just best of 9. Great snooker sprint best of 7 !! Players are getting them match sharp for UK, Masters and Worlds which top players obviously fancies to win so much.