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Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby GJ

USA

get a grip we dont them mugs ruining snooker

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby GJ

Bourne wrote:TOUCHDOWN !!!

HE'S REACHED THE END-ZONE !!!

SLAAAM DUNK BABY !!!

:D



rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl :?

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Witz78

GJ wrote:USA

get a grip we dont them mugs ruining snooker


theyd hardly be running it

the Chinese arent exactly running snooker are they

for a sport to be a truly global sport it has to have Americans playing it at a decent level

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
GJ wrote:USA

get a grip we dont them mugs ruining snooker


theyd hardly be running it

the Chinese arent exactly running snooker are they

for a sport to be a truly global sport it has to have Americansit at a decent level

forget it witz snooker is destined to be peanut earning potential <ok>

unless theres a money tree growing in countries players arent interested and fans think its pointless lets just pack up barry hearns things from WSA Ofices and wheel back the fat controler so that everyones happy and no snooker for 75% of the year then players can rest all they want :zzz: :zzz: <ok>

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Monique

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/201 ... 666242.htm?
After a long lull in the sport's popularity, Barry Hearn is trying to bring snooker back into the mainstream - and he's gambling big on China, Sun Xiaochen reports
The self-proclaimed "grandfather" of snooker wants the sport to say goodbye to its past and embrace an extended Pro Tour with a global vision. The man who promoted snooker to mainstream popularity in the 1980s, Barry Hearn was a driving force during the sport's heydays, but felt frustrated about its "close to moribund" status over the past decade and returned to the helm as the chairman of World Snooker in 2009.
To save his beloved sport from losing money and TV audiences, Hearn believes globalization is the way to recapture the "old glory days", stressing it needs to expand on a large scale globally, especially in the fast-growing Chinese market.

"What I saw two years ago was a stagnant game, which wasn't been led by enthusiasm. It was frustrating for me to watch this great game not being made the most of," Hearn told China Daily before this month's Communication Bank Shanghai Masters.
"To my mind, this may be complacency by the organizers and the players, not to push the boundaries, just to settle for a minimum number of events," he said.
"I know clearly we have to inject enthusiasm and some danger (into snooker). A part of the danger is the globalization," said the 63-year-old, who managed a stable of stars, including the legendary Steve Davis and 11-time 147-break holder Ronnie O'Sullivan.
What convinced Hearn to stick with his global plan is the game's rapid development in China in recent years, both at the competitive level and through its commercial value.
Apart from the Shanghai Masters, another two ranking events - the China Open and Hainan World Open - have become the flavor of the month every March, while the Wuxi Classic invitational tournament draws the game's big names each July. TV stations, including CCTV, BTV and SMG, have boosted ratings by putting more live games on air.
After winning the Masters title this January, China's snooker sensation, Ding Junhui, has become one of the most recognized sports figures in the country. With that comes huge endorsement potential, alongside the likes of hoops icon Yao Ming and champion hurdler Liu Xiang.
Driven by his success, more and more young players have decided to take up the sport, while Chinese companies are keen to sign star players including O'Sullivan, John Higgins and Mark Selby, to promote their brands abroad.
According to a Beijing Youth Daily report, 14 of the top 16 players have signed partnership deals with various Chinese companies from cue makers to milk producers.
Enterprises interested in the title sponsorship of local events have to compete fiercely to win the bids, said Zhang Zhenpeng, an organizing official of the China Open.
"The demand is very high, the TV ratings are huge and the sponsors are numerous. China is a massive market now. I am very excited snooker is extremely popular here," Hearn said.
After the Shanghai Masters, the world snooker association will announce several new tournaments in China and is in discussions with the Chinese Billiard and Snooker Association (CBSA) to set up an Asian Pro Tour, mainly based in the country, to provide a separate classification of events for young locals to compete in.
"Now we have to create Chinese stars in the global market and give them opportunities and experience - then China will move closer to becoming a dominant force in world snooker," Hearn said.
"Most importantly, don't forget the picture here has been seen all over the world. This is a major change in the sport now, thanks to China's influence. We have to open the doors," said Hearn, who describes himself as a "working-class lad" who is crazy about the game.
Since regaining the sport's leading role, Hearn has launched a series of radical reforms, including increasing prize money on the tour from 3.5 million ($5.023 million) to more than 6 million, and establishing new events in Australia, Thailand, Brazil and Germany.
There are now about 30 tournaments on the World Snooker Tour, compared to just eight two years ago.
However, some players have questioned Hearn's reforms, complaining about the taxing schedule and long trips.
Among the top 12 invited players, seven stars, including Ding, O'Sullivan and Higgins, refused to play the Brazil Masters, which is scheduled from Sept 15-18 and has no ranking points, claiming they wanted to save time and energy.
"It's just an exhibition match without ranking points. I feel it would be a waste of time to go over there and I won't get what I want," Ding told the Chinese media during the Shanghai tournament.
Hearn is disappointed some of the game's marquee players won't appear in Brazil, but urged them to realize the responsibilities of nurturing the sport in a new market.
"There will be opportunities for players all over the world. But very few will reach the top. And the work ethic is what determines their level of success," said Hearn who said he believes more games will bring more income for the players.
"It's a big journey (traveling to Brazil after the Shanghai event). But this is the price you have to pay as a professional player. This is not a hobby. This is your job to play the best and entertain the crowd, both locally and on TV, around the world,"
The veteran promotes 11 different sports, including boxing, darts and soccer, through his Matchroom company, and remains at the top of his game.
However, he says he will never be 100 percent satisfied with snooker's development.
"As the grandfather of snooker, I want to make sure my grandchildren are doing as they are told and understand the basic principles of being respectful and treating the sport with honor. So far, I am 90 percent happy. I will never be 100 percent, because I set targets that other people don't set," said Hearn.


Good news is the separate tour in China.

Other than that the same misleading information is there again. Yes, the global prize money has increased, but with so many more tournaments abroad yielding travel and accommodation expenses, the expenses of the players not covered anymore, most players will actually earn less for working more. Yes, Mr Hear, they are pros, which means they should make a living out of their sport. And it's not about "rewarding mediocrity". When the runner-up of a ranking tournament - namely Mark Williams in Australia - travels about 50 hours back and forth, plays 5 matches and gets 9500£ for it that's preposterous ( http://welcometooncue.blogspot.com/2011 ... ew-my.html ). Take the expenses out and see what's left. Then think about what those who didn't reach the final got ... or actually had to spend to play there. I'm sure Mr Hearn wouldn't accept such poor reward for his own efforts. He's not Mother Theresa of snooker, he's a businessman and he is there to make money. Never forget that.

And before GJ comes and claims I'm not accurate ... I am. Yes the prize money for the runner-up in Australia was allegedly 20000£. BUT the Australian taxes only amounted to 46%, something MJW wasn't aware of, and something Dave Hendon apparently didn't know until our discussion on twitter forced him to check. Another example of the misleading information that is spread around regarding what the real state of affair is for the players. Because at the end of the day, it does not matter what's on the paper, it's what comes to their wallet that matters.

And, while I am at a Sunday morning moan... the way amateurs are lured to believe that PTCs are the next big thing for them, while they have very little chances to get to the MT that way, and contribute to finance the tour with next to no reward isn't to my liking neither.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

monique for christ sake listen

unless players do the traveling do the promoting do the hardship there will NEVER in a trillion years be more money in snooker Money does not fall from trees sponsors have to see comitment to their events or they will never give more money.

not only current sponsors but future investers.

yes traveling costs but thats the price you have to pay otherwise theres no hope at all.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby GJ

Its about laying foundations you cant expect miracles overnight the prize fund for oz open will rise each year if the WSA are interested in buliding snooker if they just want to be greedy they wont have the oz open next year.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

GJ wrote:Its about laying foundations you cant expect miracles overnight the prize fund for oz open will rise each year if the WSA are interested in buliding snooker if they just want to be greedy they wont have the oz open next year.

yes its not in the intrest of the long term stabalisation and earning potential of snooker to throw money at players its about the sport not individuals.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby randam05

Witz78 wrote:USA, Canada and South Africa the key target areas IMO


rofl rofl

The thing was a joke by the way, did you watch the video?

Doesnt look like they have a clue there.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby randam05

GJ wrote:USA

get a grip we dont them mugs ruining snooker


Well said.

Its fair to say I could win that match. They are shocking. <laugh>

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Monique

Wild wrote:monique for christ sake listen

unless players do the traveling do the promoting do the hardship there will NEVER in a trillion years be more money in snooker Money does not fall from trees sponsors have to see comitment to their events or they will never give more money.

not only current sponsors but future investers.

yes traveling costs but thats the price you have to pay otherwise theres no hope at all.


And you stop talking bullocks. Nobody, in whatever profession, will work to finance their enterprise out of their pocket and make the boss richer while they get poorer. That's just sheer nonsense or cockoo-land dreaming. Yes, maybe as a one-off. But not as the rule, not in the long term. Even if they wanted it - and why would they unless there are strong guarantees of significant improvement in a foreseeable not too remote future - they can't afford it, they have bills to pay, families to care for (and that includes seeing them as well BTW). There is a lot of margin between 6 events and well over 20, not to mention 30 targeted next year. With what money will he do that do you reckon? Not to mention the rumours about extending the MT to 128, which means even less to earn for everyone, in particular the newbies probably. And even less hope for the amateurs lured into the PTCs. One of the basic of good management is using the resources you have wisely. That is usually not compatible with being too greedy, which Hearn is IMO. And if it does not work, he'll quit and leave only shambles.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

how do you sugest they get more money ???

it wont just happen Barry Hearn knows that thats why hes made money nobody knocked on his door and handed him cash he had to go out there to get it.

all i get from you monique is give them cash give them cash......from where i dont know ??

amataurs is a different matter not the money but the lack of opertunities they seem to now get.

nobody forcing them to do it and nobody owes them a living but if they dont do the hard graft peanuts is all they will ever get thats the Hard Reality of where snooker currently is in after years of mis management.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Casey

They can claim tax back at their end of year returns.

Most of the increased prize money has come from the additional ranking events which carry significant ££.

All sports have pros who make money and loss money - Golf and tennis are no exceptions. Hearn has to think about the survival of the sport, the amateures might be put to an expense but prior to Hearn they have no opportunity to play against the best players in the World in professional conditions.
Nobody is forcing them to play, the choice is theirs.

Its also worth noting that Hearn says he eventually plans to get rid of the PTCs. The sport has to go global.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

yes when Barry goes in to negotiations he cant start talking about players putting food on the table in a word he dont give a stuff and neither should he ......he got in to turn the sport around if some players cant afford it well sorry but thats just life.

its their decition at the end of the day but in 5 or 10 years the players that are still involved will find the benefits its a long term goal not a quick fix your looking for mon...sorry.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Monique

Wild I'm TIRED of explaining it. I did already, more than once.
Be LESS greedy. Grow, but grow a bit slower focusing on proximity markets or "proven" markets, not remote ones that create high expenses for the players AND for WSA without guaranteed return on investment. . China and Mainland Europe, mainly Germany. Have less events, not 6, but maybe 14-15 instead of over 20 but give each of them more resources. Care about quality, proper reward, quality of venue and adequate marketing. Sponsors don't like the "cheap" image. Selling the game cheap is devaluating it , devaluating its image and its long term commercial value.
Make sure about the right communication with the players. Make sure goals are clear as well as expectations. Be true. Don't spread misleading information that will only backfire when found out. The players are the game most valuable asset: work with them, LISTEN to them rather than imposing on them forcibly. Work with them.
Spend some resources on working on the game's exponents commercial image like other sports do. Their top exponents are associated with a certain life style that then allows for sponsoring by makes that have a-priori no direct relationship with sport. Fashion, luxury watches, cars ... I tried to approach ADIDAS to get them to sponsor logos for some of the players in Germany, including Walden who completed a marathon. They were not interested. The image is not there. A lot of modern players are into fitness or golf. Why isn't that exploited?

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

proven markets is pointless though thats just being carefull that is no way the best way to make money.

you just got to take risks some come off others wont

as i said on twitter we see things very different and will never agree but from my point of view unless we take the chances when they come along its missed and we will never get it back.

regarding the callender this season its messy that does need refining so its easy to go straight from one event to another without being a yo yo but regarding sponsors and how much money they will put in they wont put more in if theres less events but if the events are there theres a chance price money will grow year on year.

PTC is the same thing but different to the main tour events and should be looked at as a way of opening up the game Like 1992 When Ronnie,Higgins and Williams was Found.

i think Next season the Sheffield PTC will be Fased out and Possibly PTC Reduced to 8 Events Played at Gloucster Or Europe and then Maybe Take 4 Event out of 8 Towards a Ranking.....i bet All of these have been thought about and if they think thats to Snookers Benefit they will do it but the sport not players are my priority.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby GJ

lets get this clear if ronnei said an event was great mon would jump and say yes ronnie sir

mon is as biased as the rest and and agrees with what ever suits her agenda

wild wants what his best for snooker and he is right in this case

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby snooky147

However, he says he will never be 100 percent satisfied with snooker's development.
"As the grandfather of snooker, I want to make sure my grandchildren are doing as they are told and understand the basic principles of being respectful and treating the sport with honor. So far, I am 90 percent happy. I will never be 100 percent, because I set targets that other people don't set," said Hearn.

Heil Hearn :no:

the basic principles of being respectful and treating the sport with honor.
He needs to be AS respectful to the players and that should include listening to the faults in this season.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Monique

GJ wrote:lets get this clear if ronnei said an event was great mon would jump and say yes ronnie sir

mon is as biased as the rest and and agrees with what ever suits her agenda

wild wants what his best for snooker and he is right in this case


Let's get it clear: you're just being nasty and generally haven't a clue about how things really work. More often than not you're not even able to find out when and who your favs play without asking others. The article above quotes DING. The interviewee in Gary Moss' is WILLIAMS. And snooky147 who has been backing me here often is a relative of DOTT.

I have no agenda. As Wild says I have a different point of view, that's all, and I'm not convinced that going global at this pace is sustainable. You can't have a sport without exponents, and you will not attract new young players (and get the parents support) if they can only make a pittance out of their trade. Simple economics.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby GJ

Monique wrote:
GJ wrote:lets get this clear if ronnei said an event was great mon would jump and say yes ronnie sir

mon is as biased as the rest and and agrees with what ever suits her agenda

wild wants what his best for snooker and he is right in this case


Let's get it clear: you're just being nasty and generally haven't a clue about how things really work. More often than not you're not even able to find out when and who your favs play without asking others. The article above quotes DING. The interviewee in Gary Moss' is WILLIAMS. And snooky147 who has been backing me here often is a relative of DOTT.

I have no agenda. As Wild says I have a different point of view, that's all, and I'm not convinced that going global at this pace is sustainable. You can't have a sport without exponents, and you will not attract new young players (and get the parents support) if they can only make a pittance out of their trade. Simple economics.



what BS i can read and i check the WS site for schedules

So unless barry has lost his mind and put you in charge of the WS site that comment is complete BS

<doh>

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Witz78

well its good to see my long campaign for a seperate China Tour is going to come to something, has been a no brainer for a while that this would make sense so will be interesting to see how it works.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:well its good to see my long campaign for a seperate China Tour is going to come to something, has been a no brainer for a while that this would make sense so will be interesting to see how it works.


As I said that's indeed the good news and it definitely makes sense. Now it's to be seen how it's implemented. Will be interesting.

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:well its good to see my long campaign for a seperate China Tour is going to come to something, has been a no brainer for a while that this would make sense so will be interesting to see how it works.

we just need your PTC Campaign to start working now

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
Witz78 wrote:well its good to see my long campaign for a seperate China Tour is going to come to something, has been a no brainer for a while that this would make sense so will be interesting to see how it works.


As I said that's indeed the good news and it definitely makes sense. Now it's to be seen how it's implemented. Will be interesting.

i think China has some Pretty useful players like Chen Zhe and many others that will Greatly benefit from this idea.

its going to be fascinating to see how its put in place and will it have a effect on the PTC Where Best of China plays the best of Britain in the Grand Finals ??

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby moondan

Hi, monique, wild and gj,

You all know where I stand with Hearn , for my money the players chose the wrong option.
The players may be busier but Im not sure the game is richer -- if anything its been devalued , ranking titles are now meaningless ,or at least some are and records dont seem to count for anything anymore.


The only good thing that has come from all this seems to be its become very obvious that many of the older players that were judged to be useless by the misguided are more than holding their own against todays supposedly superior player..

It was always goin to be a few years before snooker could find its feet, the economic climate is still a good few years away from regaining its health, I just hope the game is left with its old standards and substance. :-(

Re: Snookers new big target country?

Postby GJ

moondan wrote:Hi, monique, wild and gj,

You all know where I stand with Hearn , for my money the players chose the wrong option.
The players may be busier but Im not sure the game is richer -- if anything its been devalued , ranking titles are now meaningless ,or at least some are and records dont seem to count for anything anymore.


The only good thing that has come from all this seems to be its become very obvious that many of the older players that were judged to be useless by the misguided are more than holding their own against todays supposedly superior player..

It was always goin to be a few years before snooker could find its feet, the economic climate is still a good few years away from regaining its health, I just hope the game is left with its old standards and substance. :-(



evening moon :hatoff: