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Money in the game

Postby Witz78

Just out of curiosity ive decided to investigate what kind of money there is for the lower ranked players in snooker.

To make any money you have to reach the last 64 stage (3rd qualifying round) of an event, so theres a lot of players who fail to pick up a penny from one event ot the next.

Drago has been the most successful of the newcomers to tour with at least 2 wins in each event (which takes him to the last 64 and into the BIG money rofl )

Here is Tonys earnings for this season.

Shanghai Masters (last 64) £1,400
Grand Prix (last 64) £2,200
UK Championship (last 64) £2,300
Welsh Open (last 32) £2,700
China Open (last 32) £3,640*
World Championship (last 64) £4,600

*still in tournament, yet to be played.

Assuming Tony doesnt progress any further in China, then his earnings for season 09/10 will be a paltry £16,840.

So you can imagine how hard it is to make a living as a "pro" for the less successful players even further down the rankings, who dont have the security that Drago at least does have, of having earned decent money in the past during his 20 or so years as a professional at a high level.

Whats everyones views on this?

It makes the new Players Championships events which will be introduced by Barry Hearn all the more important for the lower ranked players.

Re: Money in the game

Postby Wildey

thats £323.85 a week for a player down the rankings what do you want give them how much for doing sod all.....

that should motivate them to get better to earn more <ok>

players should be payed more yes however they know how to get more WIN MATCHES <ok>

Re: Money in the game

Postby Rocket_ron

wildJONESEYE wrote:thats £323.85 a week for a player down the rankings what do you want give them how much for doing sod all.....

that should motivate them to get better to earn more <ok>

players should be payed more yes however they know how to get more WIN MATCHES <ok>

i would still swap them. £323 a week just for practicing every now and then and playing at a few quallys a year, not bad really is it?

Re: Money in the game

Postby Smart

You mugs !!!! <doh>

Do you honestly think he actually gets the 16k in his back pocket.......... we have a thing in this country called tax, NI, etc. Perhaps you would like to re-calculate your figures with tax deductions, NI etc. <laugh>

I'd like to work with no tax, NI, etc - but reality is you earn money and you pay money out to sustain the country. <ok>

Re: Money in the game

Postby Rocket_ron

StalinESQ wrote:You mugs !!!! <doh>

Do you honestly think he actually gets the 16k in his back pocket.......... we have a thing in this country called tax, NI, etc. Perhaps you would like to re-calculate your figures with tax deductions, NI etc. <laugh>

I'd like to work with no tax, NI, etc - but reality is you earn money and you pay money out to sustain the country. <ok>

smart we know this.

well £323 gross, after deductions your looking at around £260 net.

i supose it is poor, but they dont have to work 40 hours a week for 52 weeks

Re: Money in the game

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:thats £323.85 a week for a player down the rankings what do you want give them how much for doing sod all.....

that should motivate them to get better to earn more <ok>

players should be payed more yes however they know how to get more WIN MATCHES <ok>


But if say, Tony wins more matches to earn more money then other players are beat and they dont win as much. Its a vicious circle.

Theres only so much money in the game, and at the moment its not enough to sustain 96 "PROFESSIONAL" players. Thats fairly obvious from the fact that the prize money only begins at the top 64 stage, hence a pro tour of 64 players, not the current 96 is sustainable at the moment.

Re: Money in the game

Postby Wildey

StalinESQ wrote:You mugs !!!! <doh>

Do you honestly think he actually gets the 16k in his back pocket.......... we have a thing in this country called tax, NI, etc. Perhaps you would like to re-calculate your figures with tax deductions, NI etc. <laugh>

I'd like to work with no tax, NI, etc - but reality is you earn money and you pay money out to sustain the country. <ok>


I know the ins and outs and its not ideal however in real life it comes to about £8 a hour for a 40 hour shift and its £2 above the minimum wage <ok>

Re: Money in the game

Postby Witz78

StalinESQ wrote:Factor in travel, hotel........... <ok>


yeh i was going to mention that plus the tax etc once a few people had replied but you beat me to it <ok>

Cant believe some people think this sort of money for someone who is the 30th best player this season (check the 1 year rankings) is sufficient.

By the time you take tax and NI off the earnings, there probably down to about 12k before travel and hotels.

This is a pittance to your average man let alone a sportsman who is doing this as their profession, and is in the public eye and also yearns to live a comfortable lifestyle.

These guys have so much free time but i know from experience the more free time you have, the more money you spend.

Re: Money in the game

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:
StalinESQ wrote:You mugs !!!! <doh>

Do you honestly think he actually gets the 16k in his back pocket.......... we have a thing in this country called tax, NI, etc. Perhaps you would like to re-calculate your figures with tax deductions, NI etc. <laugh>

I'd like to work with no tax, NI, etc - but reality is you earn money and you pay money out to sustain the country. <ok>


I know the ins and outs and its not ideal however in real life it comes to about £8 a hour for a 40 hour shift and its £2 above the minimum wage <ok>


hardly inspiring for promising young players to give up the chance of a real job to dedicate their lives to try and earn £2 above the minimum wage though eh?

Re: Money in the game

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:But if say, Tony wins more matches to earn more money then other players are beat and they dont win as much. Its a vicious circle.

its sport mate performance related. you see footballers getting payed stupid amount of money to sit on the bench injured and footballers got so much free time with the millions they earn they strip to their pants take a photo and text it to girls.....they should earn less and be payed according to football performance and not shagging <ok>

Re: Money in the game

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:
StalinESQ wrote:You mugs !!!! <doh>

Do you honestly think he actually gets the 16k in his back pocket.......... we have a thing in this country called tax, NI, etc. Perhaps you would like to re-calculate your figures with tax deductions, NI etc. <laugh>

I'd like to work with no tax, NI, etc - but reality is you earn money and you pay money out to sustain the country. <ok>


I know the ins and outs and its not ideal however in real life it comes to about £8 a hour for a 40 hour shift and its £2 above the minimum wage <ok>


hardly inspiring for promising young players to give up the chance of a real job to dedicate their lives to try and earn £2 above the minimum wage though eh?

as i say its not ideal and hopefully things will get better but knowing barry hearn as i do i think its going to get worst....he wants the elite to make the money that what the PDC Darts is all about and he lets the BDO Take care of the small fry.

Re: Money in the game

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:
Witz78 wrote:But if say, Tony wins more matches to earn more money then other players are beat and they dont win as much. Its a vicious circle.

its sport mate performance related. you see footballers getting payed stupid amount of money to sit on the bench injured and footballers got so much free time with the millions they earn they strip to their pants take a photo and text it to girls.....they should earn less and be payed according to football performance and not shagging <ok>


i agree earnings should be performance related. Snooker and individual sports are performance related for the players, unlike team sports where players are contracted to clubs on contracts earning megabucks regardless of what they do.

Your example of football, is the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of money each sport generates, pays the stars etc. Whilst snooker will never be close in a million years to reaching footballs levels, theres no doubt that whilst football is awash with far too much money in wages, snooker is at the opposite end with far too little money at stake for the professional players.

It says it all when Higgins, Ronnie etc were making such a big deal about the limited opportunities in the game under Walker, so spare a thought for the younger players down the bottom of the rankings living on the breadline.

Re: Money in the game

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

What about the other end of the scale Witz? Any chance you could put up what each of the Top 16 have earned this year?

Re: Money in the game

Postby Witz78

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:What about the other end of the scale Witz? Any chance you could put up what each of the Top 16 have earned this year?


i could do that too John, but i could also got far lower too, remember Drago is the 30th best player this season according to the 1 year rankings so that suggests there will be many players earning less, including quite a few earning virtually nothing.

Later on, i will do a random comparison (since im not going out tonight :( ) taking players at 1st, 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, 50th, 60t, 70th, 80th, 90th and 96th to see how the money drops down the tour.

Re: Money in the game

Postby Witz78

This is based on the current provisional rankings

2009/10 EARNINGS

96th Andrew Norman - £0

90th Jordan Brown £0

85th David Hogan £0

80th Lee Spick - £2,050

75th Xiao Guodong £1,400

70th Patrick Wallace £4,250

65th John Parrot - £4,500

60th Jimmy White - £1,400 (not including £3000 Masters prize as players in 60th place would never normally get this chance to earn extra money)

55th David Gilbert £8,025

50th Matthew Selt - £13,040

-------------------------------------------------

Basically for at least half of the tour there is no real money to have snooker as your real profession unless you have sponsors etc, but given the lack of exposure to lower professionals, sponsorship cant expect to be significant.

It also begs the question, how can it be worthwhile for the countless Chinese and Far Eastern players in the lower ranks who are based at the Sheffield Snooker Academy. Are these guys subsidised by WSA??

Cos theres no way there making any money from the game to justify moving halfway round the world and dedicating every day to practising.

I will next look at the group of players from the around 25 - 50 in the rankings to see what there earnings have been like.

Re: Money in the game

Postby Smart

Witz78 wrote:It also begs the question, how can it be worthwhile for the countless Chinese and Far Eastern players in the lower ranks who are based at the Sheffield Snooker Academy. Are these guys subsidised by WSA??

Cos theres no way there making any money from the game to justify moving halfway round the world and dedicating every day to practising.


I believe they live a very basic existance - eating rice and noodles - and they live 10 to a house. <ok> :wave:

Not sure how they pay for their table time at the Academy........... perhaps the Chinese government is subsidising them, or more likely the British government subsidises them along with everyone else.

Or do they sleep under the tables at the end of their practice session......... :huh: