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Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby randam05

Rory Mcleod didn't shake a woman refs hand at the end of the match due to his religious beliefs.

Now obviously you can respect someones religion but how can you respect it when stuff like this happens in it?

Im sorry but religion doesnt come above social morality and just pure politness. He has not done the correct thing because of his religion. I dont see how anyone can not see this as being wrong.

I know people will be scared to state their true opinion on this because everyone wants to be all PC and anti racist/anti religion because of the way todays society is. But I dont care, I just think this is utterly wrong.

I never had anything against him until listening to his interviews about the ricky walden match at the crucible this year where I felt he was a little rude towards him, but I managed to forget about that, then he goes and does this.

I suppose nothing will be done about it or nothing mentioned about it on official sites as it may be called racist or whatever.

But just imagine if it was the other way around and she didnt shake his hand cause he was a muslim. Imagine all the fuss that would be made of that. Why should it work one way and not the other? Theres no difference between her not shaking his because hes muslim, or him shaking hers because shes a woman.

I dont have a clue about religion and quite frankly dont want to have a clue (all respect to people who are religious) but why is it not right for him to shake her hand? My guess is that in his religion woman are below males? So how would that make her feel? how would it make you feel woman (monique) that he wouldnt shake your hand? Personally Id feel looked down upon and be quite upset.

Anyway Ill shutup before people hate me and hear your opinions.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Monique

Well first I wouldn't speculate about what would happen if it was "the other way around". It has not happened and we just don't know.
Next to answer your question about how I would feel, well, I wouldn't give a sh.it about it. How I feel about myself and my inner sense of security and pride has never been driven by others opinions or reactions towards me or my gender. I can't care less.
Having said that, if the story is true and I've no reason to doubt Jan Verhaas, I find Rory's behaviour plain rude. Ivy Zhu was there working as a referee and if nothing else following the etiquette is a mark of respect, courtesy and gratitude for the function she's fulfilling. Whatever Rory, as a Muslim, thinks about women and how they should be treated, it's the referee, not the woman he should have seen in her under the circumstances.
I doubt anyone would mess up with Michaela. But then ... "she's one of the lads" (SIC ROS)

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby SnookerFan

Muslims phrase it that 'Men and women are equal, but different', and that men and women take different roles in a relationship. (Men earn the money, women look after the house.) That, for me is fine, if both men and women enter that role voluntarily. I remember having to visit a mosque as part of my degree, and males and females weren't even allowed to stand on the same part of the building whilst praying, incase sexual temptation distracts you from praying.

But it is instances like this that make you wonder, isn't it? We weren't there, so I don't want to comment too much. Did Rory explain what he was doing? And why? He doesn't seem a disrespectful guy to me.

Though personally, if you believe men and women are equal, then how can you fail to shake their hands? But that's just me.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

we dont know why he did not shake her hand and to be quite frank i don't give a flying buck what his pathetic idiotic reasons was.

She was a ref he was a player Religion,Gender,Sexual Preference doesn't come in to it.

She had a Job to do the same as Brendan Moore or Jan Verhass.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:Maybe his point was, that she was doing a job. Which Muslims believe isn't a woman's role.

This is fine, but she's not a Muslim. If he can't respect her beliefs, how can he want people to respect his?

again i don't give a flying buck what bucking muslims believe to be a job a woman does she did it get over it act like a bucking man not a pin end.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Roland

I got a literal translation from her weibo page which I posted in the SSB comments section. But as it's disappeared until it's approved I'll have to wait before being able to copy and paste it in here.

Basic gist is that the Chinese don't give a flying buck, it's more intrigue than seeing it as disrespectful. Gotta love the Chinese.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:I got a literal translation from her weibo page which I posted in the SSB comments section. But as it's disappeared until it's approved I'll have to wait before being able to copy and paste it in here.

Basic gist is that the Chinese don't give a flying buck, it's more intrigue than seeing it as disrespectful. Gotta love the Chinese.

there's a bigger issue here than if the chinese cares or not....

how the buck can this bucking world move on from bucking terrorists if pin ends refuse to shake the hands of refs based on religion <doh>

its just beyond belief.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Witz78

Just flicked onto BBC News 24 to be greeted with inflamatory and tense scenes coming direct from numerous streets in the Middle East as the the Arab world as a Fatwah has been issued on Dave Hendon, labelling him the 21st century Salman Rushdie.

Baying mobs can be seen surrounding burning piles of the Snooker Scene magazine, and an effigy of Hendon has also just been set ablaze.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby randam05

Wild wrote:
Sonny wrote:I got a literal translation from her weibo page which I posted in the SSB comments section. But as it's disappeared until it's approved I'll have to wait before being able to copy and paste it in here.

Basic gist is that the Chinese don't give a flying buck, it's more intrigue than seeing it as disrespectful. Gotta love the Chinese.

there's a bigger issue here than if the chinese cares or not....

how the buck can this bucking world move on from bucking terrorists if pin ends refuse to shake the hands of refs based on religion <doh>

its just beyond belief.


I like that post wild :hatoff: Dont know why, I just like it :hatoff:

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby SnookerFan

Sonny wrote:I got a literal translation from her weibo page which I posted in the SSB comments section. But as it's disappeared until it's approved I'll have to wait before being able to copy and paste it in here.

Basic gist is that the Chinese don't give a flying buck, it's more intrigue than seeing it as disrespectful. Gotta love the Chinese.


The Chinese have very weird ideas of gender roles anyway. The woman's probably just glad he didn't make her go home and do his washing.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Roland

My comment on SSB:

I have it on relative authority that her Weibo page makes reference to the incident but in a more light hearted manner. She says she just finished refereeing Rory McLeod and Robert Milkins, and apparently Islam men don't shake hands with females who are non-relatives so they saved a bit of time in bypassing the handshake.

The comments section below include such gems as "That Rory McLeod looks handsome" and "Does that mean if he shakes your hand you can have a relationship with him?". Roughly translated. They all seem completely unphased by it all in China. Different culture to the British land of PC!

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Tubberlad

I haven't been posting very much over the last few weeks for personal reasons, but couldn't help be intrigued when passing through this one in Active Topics... so I'm going to reply.

I can certainly see how people could be offended by all this, but it's all to do with the guy's beliefs, however wrong or wierd it may seem to us. It may not appear to be the nicest thing in the world to not shake a ladies hand, especially when they've travelled this far to do a job, but who knows what the meaning of such a thing is in the Muslim faith.

For example, we always (or are expected to) allow a woman to go ahead of us in line, ie 'ladies first'. In Muslim nations, a man is expected to go first. Now, to me, that would APPEAR very rude, but they believe that they should protect a woman from whatever danger may lie ahead. Which doesn't sound all that odd now does it, though it's hard to imagine what danger may lie ahead when you're queing at a till :redneck:

I'm only a moderately religious person, I believe in God and go to church, but that's as far as it goes, those of Muslim faith tend to take their faith an awful lot more seriously, and I suppose they could be commended for that (well, not those who go a little over the top, shall we say).

And to be quite honest... is it really that big a deal? I'd say Chinese women go through a lot worse in their home country than not having their hand shaken, and I'd imagine she probably doesn't give half a buck about this. Is it really worth an internet blog?

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:Two important questions here:

1 Is it illegal not to shake a refs hand ? If not, then this is no talking point.
2 Is she fit ?

:chin:

come on wally no talking point he refused to shake the hand of a female chinese ref because of some bucking religion rubbish <doh>

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby SnookerFan

Sonny wrote:My comment on SSB:

I have it on relative authority that her Weibo page makes reference to the incident but in a more light hearted manner. She says she just finished refereeing Rory McLeod and Robert Milkins, and apparently Islam men don't shake hands with females who are non-relatives so they saved a bit of time in bypassing the handshake.

The comments section below include such gems as "That Rory McLeod looks handsome" and "Does that mean if he shakes your hand you can have a relationship with him?". Roughly translated. They all seem completely unphased by it all in China. Different culture to the British land of PC!


In China it would probably be seen as nothing. In my second year of university, I lived with two Chinese people (one male and one female). Their perceptions on genders were mad. I once got food poisoning, ran to the lavatory to be sick and didn't quite make it for the first rush... When I finished I came out and the woman was on her knees cleaning up my vomit from the carpet. When I asked what the hell she was doing, she replied; "You're a man, I must clean after you."

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

Tubberlad wrote:I haven't been posting very much over the last few weeks for personal reasons, but couldn't help be intrigued when passing through this one in Active Topics... so I'm going to reply.

I can certainly see how people could be offended by all this, but it's all to do with the guy's beliefs, however wrong or wierd it may seem to us. It may not appear to be the nicest thing in the world to not shake a ladies hand, especially when they've travelled this far to do a job, but who knows what the meaning of such a thing is in the Muslim faith.

For example, we always (or are expected to) allow a woman to go ahead of us in line, ie 'ladies first'. In Muslim nations, a man is expected to go first. Now, to me, that would APPEAR very rude, but they believe that they should protect a woman from whatever danger may lie ahead. Which doesn't sound all that odd now does it, though it's hard to imagine what danger may lie ahead when you're queing at a till :redneck:

I'm only a moderately religious person, I believe in God and go to church, but that's as far as it goes, those of Muslim faith tend to take their faith an awful lot more seriously, and I suppose they could be commended for that (well, not those who go a little over the top, shall we say).

And to be quite honest... is it really that big a deal? I'd say Chinese women go through a lot worse in their home country than not having their hand shaken, and I'd imagine she probably doesn't give half a buck about this. Is it really worth an internet blog?

yes it is a big deal mate thats how bucking war starts bucking religion bullocks and some political marmite.

sooner that crap is put to bed the safer this world will be to live in when i here that some snooker player makes a bucking stand like this it really pisses the bucking rubbish out of me.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby roy142857

randam05 wrote:Rory Mcleod didn't shake a woman refs hand at the end of the match due to his religious beliefs.

Now obviously you can respect someones religion but how can you respect it when stuff like this happens in it?

Im sorry but religion doesnt come above social morality and just pure politness. He has not done the correct thing because of his religion. I dont see how anyone can not see this as being wrong.



You can respect someone's religion but not when it involves something you disapprove of? Surely the whole point of tolerance is that you DO accept other people having views or taking actions you disapprove of - for me the border is simply the point where they are not tolerant of the actions / views of others.

I think for anyone religious (I include myself in this) religion ALWAYS comes above social morality and politeness.

For Rory McLeod, if he is serious about his religion (and there's no evidence he isn't), he should be allowed where possible to follow the clear beliefs of that religion. I've seen this in response to questions on a number of Islamic websites about whether shaking hands with a woman is allowed: the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him.” I've also seen complaints on the web from Muslim women that their husbands are behaving immorally because they shake hands with women outside their family, and also that the women consider it VERY impolite (to the point of being insulting) when men try to shake hands with them.

There's a clear need for Rory to explain that he doesn't mean to be impolite, but would we really want to force him to go against his beliefs?

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Roland

SnookerFan wrote:
Sonny wrote:I got a literal translation from her weibo page which I posted in the SSB comments section. But as it's disappeared until it's approved I'll have to wait before being able to copy and paste it in here.

Basic gist is that the Chinese don't give a flying buck, it's more intrigue than seeing it as disrespectful. Gotta love the Chinese.


The Chinese have very weird ideas of gender roles anyway. The woman's probably just glad he didn't make her go home and do his washing.


Is what you've just said better or worse that what Rory did?

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

what bucking beliefs hes a bastard bucking snooker player shes a ref ......end of match shake her hand buck anything else....and if the runt was in front of me id tell the hammer the same bucking thing.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Tubberlad

The connection between religion and war might be a bit overplayed Wild. Over here, the troubles in the North were really put into overly simplistic terms with the notion that it was merely 'Catholics v Protestants'. Things ran an awful lot deeper than that, and in truth a lot of trouble was stirred up by rival parliamilitary organisations with a lot of members finding an output for their sadistic notions. Now, I'm not from Northern Ireland, and maybe someone like Case will come along and rubbish that (and to be fair, he probably would know an awful lot more about what went on than I would, but that's my reading, however inaccurate?

Are Islamic Extremists really fighting on behalf of their religion? Like buck they are. Sadists. Very sick people who have found an output for their tendencies, and hide behind religion.

I don't like the fact that Rory McLeod didn't shake a woman's hand, but that's his belief, he is genuine about it, I doubt we're going to see him at the Crucible declaring Jihad and issuing Fatwa's, he doesn't look intent on world domination to me :redneck: Anyway, I've definitely gone overboard here and it's time I opted out for tonight <laugh> enough of my bull, goodnight everyone

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

im sorry for losing my rag but i find it amazing that people think his religion or beliefs justifies treating people differently.

Richard keys lost his job despite his beliefs.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby randam05

Wild wrote:im sorry for losing my rag but i find it amazing that people think his religion or beliefs justifies treating people differently.

Richard keys lost his job despite his beliefs.


I agree with every point you have said wild to be honest.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

Tubberlad wrote:The connection between religion and war might be a bit overplayed Wild. Over here, the troubles in the North were really put into overly simplistic terms with the notion that it was merely 'Catholics v Protestants'. Things ran an awful lot deeper than that, and in truth a lot of trouble was stirred up by rival parliamilitary organisations with a lot of members finding an output for their sadistic notions. Now, I'm not from Northern Ireland, and maybe someone like Case will come along and rubbish that (and to be fair, he probably would know an awful lot more about what went on than I would, but that's my reading, however inaccurate?

Are Islamic Extremists really fighting on behalf of their religion? Like buck they are. Sadists. Very sick people who have found an output for their tendencies, and hide behind religion.

I don't like the fact that Rory McLeod didn't shake a woman's hand, but that's his belief, he is genuine about it, I doubt we're going to see him at the Crucible declaring Jihad and issuing Fatwa's, he doesn't look intent on world domination to me :redneck: Anyway, I've definitely gone overboard here and it's time I opted out for tonight <laugh> enough of my bull, goodnight everyone

point is terrorists are using religion as a excuse if people like Rory etc dont give them some warped ideas of whats right and wrong we can treat them as thugs instead of religious or political movement.

religion or politics is being used by extremist to recruit and brain washed younger people to carry on the fight.

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Tubberlad

Wild wrote:im sorry for losing my rag but i find it amazing that people think his religion or beliefs justifies treating people differently.

Richard keys lost his job despite his beliefs.

Name me a religion that encourages the kind of things Andy Gray and Richard Keys were saying? Do we know the meaning behind not shaking hands, for all I know it's a mark of respect for women in Islam. See my above example with men going ahead of women in line in Muslim traditio, it sounds crazy to us, but when you see the meaning behind it, it doesn't sound altogether implausible.

It's often misconstrued that women of the Muslim faith are forced to wear the burka. Judging by a documentary I watched, most Muslim women are only delighted to show their devotion to Allah by wearing the Burka...why do you think Muslim women in France have been so offended?

I'm not a religious nut by any means, and some of the rubbish that went on amongst members of the Catholic clergy in Ireland is beyond disgusting. But I think people are probably going a little over the top here.

Seriously, I've got to log out now <laugh>

Re: Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

Postby Wildey

randam05 wrote:I reckon me and you could have a good convo about religion wild!

Im all against it and what it does for the world. Religion is a bad thing. Tell me somebody what good it brings to the world?

there's only one religion.

treat everyone the same like you yourself would like to be treated......thats the only religion i live by.