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The £10m Tour

Postby Dannyboy

Very interesting blog entry from Dave Hendon...

In a letter to the players, Barry Hearn has stated that: “we are in discussion for many more events around the world so watch this space” and that “Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, India, Canada etc are all on the agenda.”

Hearn adds that: “I believe a £10m prize fund per season is achievable.”
:shock:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I never thought I'd see the day when £10m could be up for grabs on a snooker tour, considering that's around double the amount the players currently earn and around treble what they could earn under Rodney Walker. I suppose quite a lot of the cash will be coming from overseas investment - especially in the growing territories such as China and India.

Me thinks there will be plenty more snooker millionaires. I couldn't believe there were some that doubted Uncle Barry in favour of 110 Sport.

How big can the snooker world become?!

I've been reading some older threads on how the tour could look; its something I've been thinking about a length over the past few weeks - will post how I think the tour should look with several, albeit insignificant changes.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Casey

Great news, also I believe we will be at a point were players no longer have to base themselves in the UK to play on the tour.

Snooker can now support a 4th major and this has to be abroad.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Witz78

Casey wrote:Great news, also I believe we will be at a point were players no longer have to base themselves in the UK to play on the tour.

Snooker can now support a 4th major and this has to be abroad.


So long as all the qualifying events take place in the UK, then thats easier said than done about players not being UK based.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Dannyboy

Witz78 wrote:
Casey wrote:Great news, also I believe we will be at a point were players no longer have to base themselves in the UK to play on the tour.

Snooker can now support a 4th major and this has to be abroad.


So long as all the qualifying events take place in the UK, then thats easier said than done about players not being UK based.


They don't need to be - they can do the qualifiers a couple of days ahead of the tournament starting at the same venue - as I said above, I will explain my grand plan this afternoon... :mosh2:

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Witz78

Dannyboy wrote:
Witz78 wrote:
Casey wrote:Great news, also I believe we will be at a point were players no longer have to base themselves in the UK to play on the tour.

Snooker can now support a 4th major and this has to be abroad.


So long as all the qualifying events take place in the UK, then thats easier said than done about players not being UK based.


They don't need to be - they can do the qualifiers a couple of days ahead of the tournament starting at the same venue - as I said above, I will explain my grand plan this afternoon... :mosh2:


How will all 100 tour players afford to go halfway round the world for qualifying matches when usually only the top 64 get paid any money.

Also how would they fit in playing so many qualifiers at the actual venue which probably only has 2 tables, plus theres the additional costs of hiring the venue for the qualifiers also.

whatever your proposals are, i think there are a non starter already :chuckle:

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Dannyboy

Witz78 wrote:
Dannyboy wrote:
Witz78 wrote:
Casey wrote:Great news, also I believe we will be at a point were players no longer have to base themselves in the UK to play on the tour.

Snooker can now support a 4th major and this has to be abroad.


So long as all the qualifying events take place in the UK, then thats easier said than done about players not being UK based.


They don't need to be - they can do the qualifiers a couple of days ahead of the tournament starting at the same venue - as I said above, I will explain my grand plan this afternoon... :mosh2:


How will all 100 tour players afford to go halfway round the world for qualifying matches when usually only the top 64 get paid any money.

Also how would they fit in playing so many qualifiers at the actual venue which probably only has 2 tables, plus theres the additional costs of hiring the venue for the qualifiers also.

whatever your proposals are, i think there are a non starter already :chuckle:


By having a PTC event there at the same venue - a treble whammy. For example, from Monday to Thursday you would have the qualifiers of a ranking event, from Friday to Sunday you would have a PTC event and for the following week you'd have the finals of ranking event. Minimal travelling and financial risk for the players. I'm not talking about EVERY ranking event , I was thinking Berlin, Wales and maybe China.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Tubberlad

Just out of interest, how do you rank the tournaments in terms of prestige? I'd go:

World Championship

UK Championship

The Masters

China Open, World Open, Shanghai Masters

German Masters, Australian Open, Indian Event?

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Roland

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Welsh

:redneck:

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Tubberlad

<laugh> I think it says it all when I left out the Welsh. It's pretty rubbish.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Dannyboy

Prestige:
-World Championship
-UK Championship, The Masters, World Open
-China Open, Shanghai Masters
-German Masters, PTC Finals
-Australian Open, Welsh Open
-PTC Events

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Tubberlad

I'm not sure I'd put the World Open anywhere near the same bracket as the three majors, but it's certainly my favourite outside of the big three right now. I think there's room for a major in China.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Bourne

Agree the China Open should be handled with far more respect than World Snooker do at the moment, it's barely got anymore 'kudos' than Shanghai as things stand with it being in that 'awkward' spot before the Worlds. Beef it up <ok>

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Tubberlad

Bourne wrote:Agree the China Open should be handled with far more respect than World Snooker do at the moment, it's barely got anymore 'kudos' than Shanghai as things stand with it being in that 'awkward' spot before the Worlds. Beef it up <ok>

Both the Shanghai & China Open have the same format and same points tariff... yet somehow, the China Open feels like a far superior event. Last year's Shanghai Masters was one of the poorest events of the season, the China Open was a cracker :hatoff:

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Bourne

Tubberlad wrote:
Bourne wrote:Agree the China Open should be handled with far more respect than World Snooker do at the moment, it's barely got anymore 'kudos' than Shanghai as things stand with it being in that 'awkward' spot before the Worlds. Beef it up <ok>

Both the Shanghai & China Open have the same format and same points tariff... yet somehow, the China Open feels like a far superior event. Last year's Shanghai Masters was one of the poorest events of the season, the China Open was a cracker :hatoff:

I'd like them to swap places in the calendar <ok>

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Witz78

Tubberlad wrote:I'm not sure I'd put the World Open anywhere near the same bracket as the three majors, but it's certainly my favourite outside of the big three right now. I think there's room for a major in China.


Of course there is room for a Major in China.

But to contradict what Wild seems to be bleating on about, for an events stock and prestie / importance to rise, the prize money has to be more significant than your average tournament.

Thats why i feel that Hearn has to negotiate far better deals with regards to the Chinese tournaments, The China Open and Shanghai Masters last season both only had total prize pots of £325,000 with £60,000 to the winner but the prize money below the winner soon dropping rapidly.

I still get the feeling that the 2 Chinese events are viewed in the same light as the Welsh Open by some players as not being a disaster if they lose early on.

With snookers popularity on a high, and China especially getting audiences of over 100million on TV and the game being very popular then for the Worlds richest and growing economy to only be able to provide £650,000 per year for the 2 ranking events is quite laughable really. Its buttons.

If the Chinese are serious about snooker, im surprised they havent actually launched an almost attempt to take it over in a sense by throwing so much money at Hearn that he has no choice but to have an Asian leg of the tour comprising far more than just 2 ranking events, and with far more prize money at stake.

A Chinese / Asian seperate snooker tour under the WPSBA umbrella will probably be an eventual natural progression i feel with the top players from both tours coming together at Majors, of which the China Open will become one. This sort of thing works logistically in golf and tennis, so if snookers aims to grow big then this will be the only sustainable way forward, especially given the number of pros will likely increase in tandem with the increase in prize money.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Dannyboy

Dannyboy's World Snooker Master Plan (based on Uncle Barry's £10m tour proposal)

Tournament Calendar

May
2 week period (shorter) - UK, European & Asian Q Schools

June
10th-12th English Classic (PTC1) - EIS, Sheffield - All PTCs having the same format, except that the L128 and Prelims shortened to best of 5s.
17th-19th English Open (PTC2) - SW Academy, Gloucester

July
1st-3rd Paul Hunter Classic (PTC3) - Stadhalle, Furth, Germany
7th-10th Australian Open (Qualifiers) - EIS, Sheffield - All matches Best of 7 Frames
13th-17th Australian Open (The Finals) - Bendigo Stadium, Australia
21st-24th Brazilian Masters (Non Ranking) - Transamerica Expo Centre, Sao Paulo - Best of 7, 9 Frames
28th-31st Canadian Open - Toronto - Top 64 players - Best of 7, 9 Frames

August
12th-14th Dubai Masters (Qualifiers) - Dubai (BO7)
15th-17th Dubai Open (PTC4) - Dubai
18th-21st Dubai Masters (The Finals) - Dubai (BO7, 9, 11, 19)
25th-28th Indian Masters (Non Ranking) - Hyderabad/New Delhi (BO7, 9)

September
5th-8th World Matchplay (Qualifiers) - Shanghai Grand Stage - Renamed from Shanghai Masters (BO9)
9th-11th Shanghai Open (PTC5) - Grand Stage
12th-18th World Matchplay (The Finals) - Grand Stage (BO9, 11, 19)
30th-2nd October Scottish Open (PTC6) - Magnum Centre, Irvine

October
7th-9th World Open (Qualifiers) - EIS, Sheffield (BO5)
15th-23rd World Open (The Finals) - Venue ? (Maybe keep in Scotland or move back to Preston)

November
4th-6th Austrian Open (PTC7) - Wels - moved from June slot and upgraded to PTC status
11th-13th Scandinavian Open (PTC8) - Oslo, Norway
18th-20th Irish Open (PTC9) - INEC, Killarney

December
1st-4th UK Championship (Qualifiers) - SW Academy, Gloucester Agree with the shortening of the event (BO11)
8th-18th UK Championship (The Finals) - York Barbican Centre - Lengthened to BO17, 25, 31
28th-30th World Seniors Championship - Bradford - Moved to suit Xmas Live TV

January
6th-8th Belgian Open (PTC10) - Boudewijn Seapark, Brugge
14th-15th Premier League Finals - Wembley Arena, London
21st-29th The Masters (Non Ranking) - Alexandra Palace - Limited to Top 16 only

February
9th-11th German Open (PTC11) - Tempodrom, Berlin
12th-15th European Championship (Qualifiers) - Tempodrom, Berlin - Renamed to give a more Euro feel
16th-19th European Championship (The Finals) - Berlin - Setup was perfect last season
24th-26th Sky Shoot Out - Blackpool
27th-1st March Welsh Masters (Qualifiers) - Cardiff International Centre

March
2nd-4th Welsh Open (PTC12) - Cardiff International Centre
5th-11th Welsh Masters (The Finals) - Cardiff - In future this tournament could be shortened? (BO9, 11, 19)
12th-15th Chinese Masters (Qualifiers) - Beijing Students Gym
16th-18th Beijing Open (PTC13 - Final PTC) - Beijing Students Gym
19th-25th Chinese Masters (The Finals) - Beijing Students Gym (BO9, 11, 19)
28th-1st April World Cup (Non Ranking Team Event) - Shorter than planned this year

April
5th-8th Players Tour Championship - The Helix Dublin - A bit longer than last season (BO7, 9, 11)
9th-1th World Championship (Qualifiers) - EIS, Sheffield
21st-7th May World Championship (The Finals) - The Crucible, Sheffield - SFs shortened to BO31

Prize Money
Obviously prize money needs to reflect the prestige of the tournament; if we are going to see £10m in prize money - this will probably be the ideal distribution...
World Championship - Winner: £500,000 (Total: £2m)
The Masters - Winner: £300,000 (Total: £900,000)
UK Championship - £250,000 (£1m)
World Open - £150,000 (£735,000)
Chinese Masters, Premier League - £100,000 - Prestige
PTC Finals, World Matchplay - £80,000
Shoot Out, European, Dubai, Australia - £60,000
World Cup, Welsh, Brazil, India, Canada - £40,000
PTC Events x 12 - £20,000

Player Workload & Costs
I'm conscious of the fact that workload and the costs incurred by either sponsors of the player themselves need to be kept to a minimum. You'll see that PTCs are put in the middle of some ranking events, so players who lose in Round 1 have something else to play for. Due to the short turn around between qualifiers and the finals, World Snooker should try and forge relationships with hotel chains (ie Van der Valk, Marriott etc) and airlines (such as Qantas, Air India, TAM Brazil, easyJet etc) to minimise the costs.
Last edited by Dannyboy on 25 May 2011, edited 5 times in total.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Casey

Witz78 wrote:
Tubberlad wrote:I'm not sure I'd put the World Open anywhere near the same bracket as the three majors, but it's certainly my favourite outside of the big three right now. I think there's room for a major in China.


Of course there is room for a Major in China.

But to contradict what Wild seems to be bleating on about, for an events stock and prestie / importance to rise, the prize money has to be more significant than your average tournament.

Thats why i feel that Hearn has to negotiate far better deals with regards to the Chinese tournaments, The China Open and Shanghai Masters last season both only had total prize pots of £325,000 with £60,000 to the winner but the prize money below the winner soon dropping rapidly.

I still get the feeling that the 2 Chinese events are viewed in the same light as the Welsh Open by some players as not being a disaster if they lose early on.

With snookers popularity on a high, and China especially getting audiences of over 100million on TV and the game being very popular then for the Worlds richest and growing economy to only be able to provide £650,000 per year for the 2 ranking events is quite laughable really. Its buttons.

If the Chinese are serious about snooker, im surprised they havent actually launched an almost attempt to take it over in a sense by throwing so much money at Hearn that he has no choice but to have an Asian leg of the tour comprising far more than just 2 ranking events, and with far more prize money at stake.

A Chinese / Asian seperate snooker tour under the WPSBA umbrella will probably be an eventual natural progression i feel with the top players from both tours coming together at Majors, of which the China Open will become one. This sort of thing works logistically in golf and tennis, so if snookers aims to grow big then this will be the only sustainable way forward, especially given the number of pros will likely increase in tandem with the increase in prize money.


There is no reason why the top prize should not be £100k? :shrug:

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Wildey

SORRY but your talking utter bullocks History =Prestige not cash Welsh Open dates Back to a time Judd Trump was 3 years old thats the type of thing that should get the pulse racing not how many bucking money is in it OR where its stage thats just materialistic and has no place in sport where passion should be at the fore front.....yes it needs to get more cash but thats not adding to any prestige of events HISTORY DOES...if players and fans cant see that then they are materialistic whores.

yes there's problems with the welsh it might be a time its canceled who knows but while its there in the calender its up there with any other Ranking Event bellow the Top 2 and even Bigger than most due to its History.

Regarding this subject Why not cant it Reach 20K 30K there's nothing to stop it but it will not happen overnight it took PDC Darts 15+ years to reach the Level they have now reached and done it all without changing the fundamentals thats been in place since the 70s.things goes in cycles it just needs the right promotion and dedication from Barry down to WPBSA Cleaners to make it happen.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Witz78

Wild wrote:SORRY but your talking utter bullocks History =Prestige not cash Welsh Open dates Back to a time Judd Trump was 3 years old thats the type of thing that should get the pulse racing not how many bucking money is in it OR where its stage thats just materialistic and has no place in sport where passion should be at the fore front.....yes it needs to get more cash but thats not adding to any prestige of events HISTORY DOES...if players and fans cant see that then they are materialistic whores.

yes there's problems with the welsh it might be a time its canceled who knows but while its there in the calender its up there with any other Ranking Event bellow the Top 2 and even Bigger than most due to its History.

Regarding this subject Why not cant it Reach 20K 30K there's nothing to stop it but it will not happen overnight it took PDC Darts 15+ years to reach the Level they have now reached and done it all without changing the fundamentals thats been in place since the 70s.things goes in cycles it just needs the right promotion and dedication from Barry down to WPBSA Cleaners to make it happen.


money makes the world go round

lets bring back the Lada Classic and Mercantile Credit Classic as they have history therefore prestige but we will only give the winners 20quid but of course they will be more interested in winning it than the World Opens 100k prize <doh>

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Bourne

Witz78 wrote:
Wild wrote:SORRY but your talking utter fluffy bunnies History =Prestige not cash Welsh Open dates Back to a time Judd Trump was 3 years old thats the type of thing that should get the pulse racing not how many little kittens playing with each other having fun money is in it OR where its stage thats just materialistic and has no place in sport where passion should be at the fore front.....yes it needs to get more cash but thats not adding to any prestige of events HISTORY DOES...if players and fans cant see that then they are materialistic whores.

yes there's problems with the welsh it might be a time its canceled who knows but while its there in the calender its up there with any other Ranking Event bellow the Top 2 and even Bigger than most due to its History.

Regarding this subject Why not cant it Reach 20K 30K there's nothing to stop it but it will not happen overnight it took PDC Darts 15+ years to reach the Level they have now reached and done it all without changing the fundamentals thats been in place since the 70s.things goes in cycles it just needs the right promotion and dedication from Barry down to WPBSA Cleaners to make it happen.


money makes the world go round

lets bring back the Lada Classic and Mercantile Credit Classic as they have history therefore prestige but we will only give the winners 20quid but of course they will be more interested in winning it than the World Opens 100k prize <doh>

:hatoff:
Wild get in the real world pal, money doesn't just talk, it shouts <ok>

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Wildey

doesent add prestiege FFS Danny has the bucking PL Level with China Open <doh> <doh> <doh> <doh> <doh>

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Witz78

Wild wrote:doesent add prestiege FFS Danny has the bucking PL Level with China Open <doh> <doh> <doh> <doh> <doh>


ask any player and unless he lies, of course hed rather win an event with more prize money than one deemed more prestgious but with less money <ok>

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
Wild wrote:doesent add prestiege FFS Danny has the bucking PL Level with China Open <doh> <doh> <doh> <doh> <doh>


ask any player and unless he lies, of course hed rather win an event with more prize money than one deemed more prestgious but with less money <ok>

no time for those runts if im honest. really haven't yes they need money but come on they need to put their name in to snooker history and winning a few £100,000 PL will not do that.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Witz78

anyway talking of the PL its been running for 25 years which is far longer than most current tournaments so it does have more history and prestige than a lot of events.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:anyway talking of the PL its been running for 25 years which is far longer than most current tournaments so it does have more history and prestige than a lot of events.

was you born stupid or its just happened with old age.

Ranking Events is not bucking rubbish league

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Dannyboy

Players and spectators just don't care about the Welsh Open, Wild. The BBC don't care; they stick it just on BBC Wales rather than the mainstream channels. The attendances are c**p quite frankly. The prize money has been poor for years.

On another note, where is the event being moved to? I read a blog that this new venue in Llanelli is very bad for the future of the tournament?

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Wildey

Dannyboy wrote:Players and spectators just don't care about the Welsh Open, Wild. The BBC don't care; they stick it just on BBC Wales rather than the mainstream channels. The attendances are c**p quite frankly. The prize money has been poor for years.

On another note, where is the event being moved to? I read a blog that this new venue in Llanelli is very bad for the future of the tournament?

have you been there to newport ?

because i have and i honestly dont know where this idea of crap attendances comes from its no worst than any other tournament ive been and BETTER than the UK in Telford was.

The have not stuck it on BBC Wales......BBC Wales was broadcasting it in the 1980s as a invitational for Welsh players only its their baby and they have continued to broadcast it.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

In some sports the biggest events aren't the ones with the most prize money. I think in Golf there are several events which give out more than the Majors do. The £100,000 first prize for the World Open was artificially inflated to give a new event an extra level of importance. If an event in China offered £350,000 to the winner it would be a rival to the World Championship but I still think winning at the Crucible would carry more weight, particularly for Chinese players given the venues history. In importance not counting the new events for next season it would be

World Championship
UK Championship & Masters

China Open, Shnaghai Masters, German Masters, Welsh Open, World Open
PTC Grand Finals


Regular PTC Events

The events in China & Germany have far more potential then the Welsh Open but for now they still fairly even.

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Wildey

im not saying the welsh open is right buck me its not the fact people got the wrong perception of the event says how wrong its been marketed and presented but at the same time there's miss representation what the event is actually like as well.....

Re: The £10m Tour

Postby Wildey

i think its as simple as this same venue,same price money,same format ON SKY perception would be different but because BBC Wales are the main broadcasters its looked down on by snobs TBH.


   

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