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Attacking or Negative ??

Attacking
3
43%
Negative
4
57%
 
Total votes : 7

Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

ive always thought of Mark Selby as a attacking safety player thats why he takes time to work out the best place to put the white for maximum effect.

but some people for what ever reason got it in their mind he plays negative safeties. of course at times he has to like everyone else but every time he comes to the table he looks firstly at the attacking option and it takes time to do that.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby GJ

I would say 60-40 negative safetys

he can be attacking at safety when it suits but more times he plays negative than positive safety IMO

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:He's good at both, he wouldn't be generally involved in so many re-rack frames if he was completely attacking safety. So I can't vote for either <ok>

joe johnson said in comentary" if this game was played perfectly nobody would pot a ball" just because theres re racks doesn't mean theres negative play its just means the game of tactics is played very well.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Bourne

Wild wrote:
Bourne wrote:He's good at both, he wouldn't be generally involved in so many re-rack frames if he was completely attacking safety. So I can't vote for either <ok>

joe johnson said in comentary" if this game was played perfectly nobody would pot a ball" just because theres re racks doesn't mean theres negative play its just means the game of tactics is played very well.

Well Joe Johnson talking bullocks as usual, it's not a dig at Selby I don't have anything wrong with him playing negative shots if anything it shows how desperate he is not to lose matches and keep progressing.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:
Wild wrote:
Bourne wrote:He's good at both, he wouldn't be generally involved in so many re-rack frames if he was completely attacking safety. So I can't vote for either <ok>

joe johnson said in comentary" if this game was played perfectly nobody would pot a ball" just because theres re racks doesn't mean theres negative play its just means the game of tactics is played very well.

Well Joe Johnson talking bullocks as usual, it's not a dig at Selby I don't have anything wrong with him playing negative shots if anything it shows how desperate he is not to lose matches and keep progressing.

think about it

if theres a perfect break off followed by 100 perfect safety shots where will the pot come from ???

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Bourne

Wild wrote:
Bourne wrote:
Wild wrote:
Bourne wrote:He's good at both, he wouldn't be generally involved in so many re-rack frames if he was completely attacking safety. So I can't vote for either <ok>

joe johnson said in comentary" if this game was played perfectly nobody would pot a ball" just because theres re racks doesn't mean theres negative play its just means the game of tactics is played very well.

Well Joe Johnson talking tezzies as usual, it's not a dig at Selby I don't have anything wrong with him playing negative shots if anything it shows how desperate he is not to lose matches and keep progressing.

think about it

if theres a perfect break off followed by 100 perfect safety shots where will the pot come from ???

There's a pot available off every shot, be it a 1 in a billion fluke or a 10 ball plant or a quadruple ... :irk:

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby GJ

When he plays attacking game he plays better and his ranking titles tally shows he resorts to negative game plan more often than attacking

;-)

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:
Wild wrote:
Bourne wrote:
Wild wrote:joe johnson said in comentary" if this game was played perfectly nobody would pot a ball" just because theres re racks doesn't mean theres negative play its just means the game of tactics is played very well.

Well Joe Johnson talking tezzies as usual, it's not a dig at Selby I don't have anything wrong with him playing negative shots if anything it shows how desperate he is not to lose matches and keep progressing.

think about it

if theres a perfect break off followed by 100 perfect safety shots where will the pot come from ???

There's a pot available off every shot, be it a 1 in a billion fluke or a 10 ball plant or a quadruple ... :irk:


thats ok then lets fluke every pot <doh>

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

seriously guys you really have not got a clue what this subject is about you seem to think playing quicker = playing attacking.

in breakbuilding selby plays quicker than someone like wenbo in safeties he takes his time looking at the best option to create a chance= attacking.

Negativity = play the easiest option without thinking about it like Marco Fu does.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby GJ

why ask people opinons mate if you are going to stay blinkered and not listen to other points

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Selby is good at winning the scrappy frames, so doesn't seem to mind them running scrappy. I've seen him in his fair share of boring frames/games, but doesn't mean he is deliberately negative.

He was showing some decent breaks last weekend in both his semi and his final, and even the frames which took a long time were amazing to watch. The standard of safety play in both matches was very, very high.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Monique

This is what Mark Selby himself said on his blog:

I can be over-cautious, trying to be too careful and not make any errors. Sometimes I play not to lose, rather than play to win, and that stops me from performing to the best of my ability.


Says it all.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:This is what Mark Selby himself said on his blog:

I can be over-cautious, trying to be too careful and not make any errors. Sometimes I play not to lose, rather than play to win, and that stops me from performing to the best of my ability.


Says it all.

yes but thats different to attacking or negative safety which this threads about i do take the point he over thinks shots sometime and that does hit him off his rhythm but thats because he does try to play the positive shot just he over thinks it at times..

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Roland

Wild wrote:seriously guys you really have not got a clue what this subject is about you seem to think playing quicker = playing attacking.

in breakbuilding selby plays quicker than someone like wenbo in safeties he takes his time looking at the best option to create a chance= attacking.

Negativity = play the easiest option without thinking about it like Marco Fu does.


:clap:

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby N_Castle07

Selby can adapt his game to the situation he is in. If the other player is playing really well Selby can slow the match up and slow the other player down. Unlike a lot of players Selby can adjust his game and make the other player want to hang themselves. This is a great factor to his game IMO and although it is not always entertaining to watch at times it is the reason why he is so consistent. There is a lot of negative criticism in today’s game about these tactics mainly because of Ronnie’s comments on Ebdon/Selby but there is nothing in the rules to say you can’t play this way (we all do it down the pub playing pool when the other player is flying) Raydon was the master of this kind of play and won 6 World titles.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Bourne

N_Castle07 wrote:Selby can adapt his game to the situation he is in. If the other player is playing really well Selby can slow the match up and slow the other player down. Unlike a lot of players Selby can adjust his game and make the other player want to hang themselves. This is a great factor to his game IMO and although it is not always entertaining to watch at times it is the reason why he is so consistent. There is a lot of negative criticism in today’s game about these tactics mainly because of Ronnie’s comments on Ebdon/Selby but there is nothing in the rules to say you can’t play this way (we all do it down the pub playing pool when the other player is flying) Raydon was the master of this kind of play and won 6 World titles.

:clap:

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

N_Castle07 wrote:Selby can adapt his game to the situation he is in. If the other player is playing really well Selby can slow the match up and slow the other player down. Unlike a lot of players Selby can adjust his game and make the other player want to hang themselves. This is a great factor to his game IMO and although it is not always entertaining to watch at times it is the reason why he is so consistent. There is a lot of negative criticism in today’s game about these tactics mainly because of Ronnie’s comments on Ebdon/Selby but there is nothing in the rules to say you can’t play this way (we all do it down the pub playing pool when the other player is flying) Raydon was the master of this kind of play and won 6 World titles.

i agree with most of that but it did not mention the safeties he plays lol

Ebdon and Selby always gets thrown together as a block these days but if ever there was a player in todays game to compare selby to its John Higgins the main different at the moment is John can transcend easier from tactics to break-building where mark struggles gets bogged down and it can hit his rhythm and thats when it gets scrappy but not in shot selection.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby jojo

selby plays creative safety good for the hardcore snooker fans like me who analyse the game inside out like a hawk whether the player plays fast slow or likes sticking his cue up the fat chameleons bottom

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Monique

N_Castle07 wrote:Selby can adapt his game to the situation he is in. If the other player is playing really well Selby can slow the match up and slow the other player down. Unlike a lot of players Selby can adjust his game and make the other player want to hang themselves. This is a great factor to his game IMO and although it is not always entertaining to watch at times it is the reason why he is so consistent. There is a lot of negative criticism in today’s game about these tactics mainly because of Ronnie’s comments on Ebdon/Selby but there is nothing in the rules to say you can’t play this way (we all do it down the pub playing pool when the other player is flying) Raydon was the master of this kind of play and won 6 World titles.


1. The only comment Ronnie made about Ebdon after that infamous match was that "he did what he had to do to win".
2. The last "complaints" about Selby's slow play comes from Ding and it's related to their semi last Saturday. So that's rather fresh innit? and totaly unrelated to ROS.
3. Section 4.1 of the rules deems "unecessary slow play" as ungentlemanly conduct insofar it is dealt with in the same rule as general "ugentlemanly behaviour" and that the ref is entitled to take the same actions: warn the player at first offence, dock him a frame at second and dock him the match at third . So it's in the rules. The real problem is that it is very difficult to enforce and therefore is never enforced.

I'm not saying that Selby does it systematically or that any slow pace is ungentlemanly conduct. Obviously some situations do ask for a lot of thinking time and pressure does play it's role. But in my opinion Selby has been guilty of this on certain occasions and not just against ROS.
He's never done it to the extend Ebdon does though. In the 2011 Masters, against Carter , he was on an average shot time of 57 seconds at a point during the match. That's twice what Selby and ROS had during their very tense 2009 Masters final that featured top drawer safeties from both. So if anyone can explain to me how that can be justified and "necessary" I'm listening.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:
Wild wrote:seriously guys you really have not got a clue what this subject is about you seem to think playing quicker = playing attacking.

in breakbuilding selby plays quicker than someone like wenbo in safeties he takes his time looking at the best option to create a chance= attacking.

Negativity = play the easiest option without thinking about it like Marco Fu does.


:clap:

lol

i was wrong saying that but while i was typing the thread i thought twice before sending it because i did think some would not get it what i was saying then jo jo post and he got it straight away.

creative in what hes trying to do nothing is up and down with him hoping to get a good safety he thinks long and hard and as i said sometimes too long and t0o hard. but its great to watch.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby N_Castle07

Hi Monique,

That wasn't me having a bash at Ronnie sorry if it read that way. I was just pointing out since some of Ronnie's comments a lot of fans are quick to jump on slow play and negative safeties. Ronnie does praise players such as Trump and says he plays the game the right way and to be fair he did say Selby plays, "Snail pace snooker" rofl

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Monique

N_Castle07 wrote:Hi Monique,

That wasn't me having a bash at Ronnie sorry if it read that way. I was just pointing out since some of Ronnie's comments a lot of fans are quick to jump on slow play and negative safeties. Ronnie does praise players such as Trump and says he plays the game the right way and to be fair he did say Selby plays, "Snail pace snooker" rofl


And I'm pointing at you that Ronnie isn't the only one who made comments about some others negativity and slow play, far from it in fact. I also point at you that unecessary slow play IS against the rules. And Selby himself admitted recently on his blog that slowing down too much tends to drag his own game down.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby GJ

My overall views on selby

1. John parrot sumed it up when he called him the hoover and clearing the table and selby is quality at this and when he plays like that he is a class act. and he never looks like missing.

2. When he tries to slow things away down and put his opponent out of their own style it not only affects the opponent but selby and this does him no favours, yes it may work agianst ronnie but other players it wont work agianst.

For me he should have more than 1 ranking title but if he plays like point 2 he will continue to win less titles than he should.

He has all the shots in the book but win more titles he needs to adopt my number 1 and forget number 2 as its only appears to work agianst ronnie.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

GJ wrote:My overall views on selby

1. John parrot sumed it up when he called him the hoover and clearing the table and selby is quality at this and when he plays like that he is a class act. and he never looks like missing.

2. When he tries to slow things away down and put his opponent out of their own style it not only affects the opponent but selby and this does him no favours, yes it may work agianst ronnie but other players it wont work agianst.

For me he should have more than 1 ranking title but if he plays like point 2 he will continue to win less titles than he should.

He has all the shots in the book but win more titles he needs to adopt my number 1 and forget number 2 as its only appears to work agianst ronnie.

fair assessment <ok>

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Monique

Wild wrote:
GJ wrote:My overall views on selby

1. John parrot sumed it up when he called him the hoover and clearing the table and selby is quality at this and when he plays like that he is a class act. and he never looks like missing.

2. When he tries to slow things away down and put his opponent out of their own style it not only affects the opponent but selby and this does him no favours, yes it may work agianst ronnie but other players it wont work agianst.

For me he should have more than 1 ranking title but if he plays like point 2 he will continue to win less titles than he should.

He has all the shots in the book but win more titles he needs to adopt my number 1 and forget number 2 as its only appears to work agianst ronnie.

fair assessment <ok>


agreed. And yes it works against Ronnie, sometimes, and sometimes not (Masters 2009 comes to mind). It seems to have worked against Ding on Saturday although to be fair, I watched the match and I did not feel as it was excessively slow. It certainly worked against Carter in the quarters of the 2007 WC. But it has just as often backfired at Selby himself IMO.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby Wildey

what has been noticeable last week he was playing like no 1 made 8 centuries the highest count by a single player in any tournament for years but he still had negative comment from ding or journos twisting dings words, either way it was way off the mark.

its now becoming the standard excuse when selby playing.

Re: Mark Selby.... Attacking or Negative Safeties !!!

Postby GJ

I didnt see ding match did selby play slower than usual or was ding possibly looking to appease his home fans after losing ?