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My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Witz78

Played a best of 19 match today with a mate for a few hundred quid and it turned into an epic. After some indifferent form, he was giving it the big licks beforehand about how he reckoned the bookies would call him about 2/5 on favourite. :stir:

I was already motivated to win, but this only fired me up even more. :wild2:

There were twists and turns right through the match but after going 1-0 and 2-1 down i fought back to go 3-2 up before going in 4-4 at the interval. :bang2:

With nothing to seperate us so far, already we were certain it was destiny it would go the distance, however some assured long potting and positional play took me 5-4 up then 7-5 up, ONLY 3 frames from victory. <ok>

Frames were averaging half an hour and wed been in the club since 11am, not to mention the fact id had to drive 100 miles to Glasgow beforehand for the match, so i was starting to fatigue slightly, with my legs turning to jelly and it becoming harder to focus, despite the intensity of the match. :scared: :zzz: :(

I sort of wrote off the 13the frame stupidly and put myself in the mindset, so long as i kept on winning 1 of the next 2 id prevail in the end. <cool>

However a black ball loss in frame 14 was a cruel blow, as it was now 7-7, and with momentum on his side, my mate eventually won his 4th frame on the bounce to go 9-7 up and seemingly on his way to a fine comeback and glory, not to mention the prize money. :mood: <doh>

Somehow with my back against the wall, i sparked into life and produced some fine pressure pots to close back to 9-8. My mate was becoming frustrated and annoyed that he couldnt close the match out and i was 24 up when he embarked on a fine colours clearance, i was resigned to my fate when he missed a 50/50 black for victory, and i managed to power in a long range attempt much to his annoyance. :)

By now the pendulum had swung again with me having won 2 frames in a row to make it 9-9 and force a decider. :chin:

However, my mate knuckled down and soon took a 20 odd point lead in the frame. Was my comeback in vain? :huh:

I eventually got in among the balls and racked up a few points and was then faced with a black requiring use of the long rest. I stroked it in, then with no option and with me about 10 points clear and with a foothold in the frame again, i played safe. :|

The controversy started now though, as my mate piped up and said "Wheres the black?" :argue: Turned out i had failed to re-spot it after id potted it, so he demanded the frame (and match) for my mistake but i laughed it off and said it didnt make any odds and id played a deft spot up the table off the red and the balls that moved were nowhere near the black spot anyway. :huh2: <doh> :scared:

As a compromise i gave him 7 foul points for re-spotting the black but he wasnt happy. What is the actual ruling on this, does anyone know? :huh:

I was rattled too that id made a basic error like that, and id visions that id lose the frame by 6 points, so the crucial error would cost me the match. :mood:

Alas, it was not to be as i gound out a 20 point lead onto the colours and eventually nailed a fine cut on the blue to leave him requiring 2 snooker which he never got. <cool> :clap: <ok> :rude: :clap:

After NINE hours and 35 minutes play, this 10-9 epic was finally over and id exorcised the ghosts of my previous 2010 showings to date when id only managed 2nd and 3rd in our fortnightly 3 man tournaments, as well as suffering a cruel 7-6 defeat on the final black ball, so revenge was sweet. :zzz: :clap: <ok> :bowdown:

Anyone know the rule on forgetting to re-spot a colour afte potting it then?

And how about yous, any of you play regularly? for money? what formats do you play? any controversial incidents etc?

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Wildey

in a pro match that has a ref the ruling use to be the player at the table had the responsibility that the ref had spotted the balls properly however that has changed and its solely the responsibility of the Ref so the ball when they find it missing is re spotted and they carry on.

in your situation i think the fair way is to revert back to the rule as it was and who ever potted the black has to make sure its on the spot before proceeding with the break. in the case of you carry on then find the ball missing a 7 point foul should go against whoever potted that black.

so in short i think the right conclusion did occur and tell your mate from wildJONESEYE to not make a bucking fuss you big baby ;)

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Roland

Whenever I play it's the player not at the table who is responsible for acting as a ref. So what you're saying witz is you played 19 frames and you had to get the balls out of the pocket yourself? In which case I'm sure there is no rule in place so it'd be down to you two to discuss what to do, but I would put the onus on the player not at the table and given it was a safety shot, unless the white ran directly over the black spot or black on spot would have affected your cueing then simply replacing the black after the safety shot with no penalty seems to be the best outcome. The fact you gave him 7 points and still won the frame means he can have no complaints.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby SnookerFan

I never play snooker, and if I did I'd never have anywhere near the amoung of money on it that you did. So my take on the rule would be, in the absence of a referee, the player that makes the error gives away the points, as it would be considered a foul.I can understand your mates frustration though after 9 hours odd of play with a lot of money on it.

Do you play high-stakes often?

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Witz78

Usually the unwritten rule we have is that the player on the table replaces the balls while the opponent off the table, does the scores.

He was at it, im pretty sure, cos he obviously knew before i hut the shot that i hadnt re-spotted the black as the split second after i played the safety he immediately shouted out "wheres the black?"

Think because i was distracted afte potting the black by having to place the long cue extension under the table i was already thinking ahead to the next shot so totally forgot to replace the black.

I wont be playing a best of 19 for a while again, wed a 20 min break after the 8th frame, but other than that it was pretty much non-stop snooker from 11am through to about 9pm. It knackers you mentally as fatigue sets in and your shot selection is compromised at times.

Between all that time pacing around a table, plus the 200 miles driving yesterday, my legs are kinda aching too today.

A right old slog of a match. Even the woman behind the bar in the club came through to the hall to tell us that did we know the table was already over £60 for the time wed been on rofl

I always play for money, the only way to make it competitive and like a "real" match. It ensures 100% commitment from both players with an incentive to win, plus being a bit of a gambler i enjoy the excitment of playing with money at stake, with your own ability being in control of your own destiny, rather than relying on football teams, snooker players, greyhounds, spins of a roulette wheel etc to win you money.

Depending upon numbers we have a variety of different tournament formats we play.

2 players is obviously singles. Well usually play best of 11 or 13 but occasionally 19 like yeterday of a set amount of cash (£200 each approx)

3 players and we usually play a round robin league of playing each other 4 times. Everyone throws in £300 and well make it £50quid a frame and at the end of the league the winner will take away the extra £300 quid left over in the kitty too as his bonus on top of the £50 quids for the frames he won.

Best about this format is that so long as you win a few league games, you get some of your stake back, so barring a total disaster your not going to lose your whole stake.

With 4 or 5 players, we have 2 tables on the go play a round robin similar to the above, but just playing each other 3 times.

With 6 we will do seedings based on previous results, form and do a draw for 2 groups, which will be played on adjacent tables. Everyone will throw in, say a £100 and each group of 3 will playe each other twice. The top 2 from each group will progress to the semis where winner group a will play runner up group b, and vice versa in a best of 3 match. The 2 winners will contest the final and the winner will get £400 prize money whilst the runner up gets his £100 stake back, and the 2 losing semi finalists get £50 back as consolation, whilst the 2 losers in the group stages get BFH ( Bus Fare Home ) rofl

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Roland

How it's generally done whenever I play is that the player not at the table respots the colours and give a running count of the break then adds it to the scoreboard at the end of the break. It's part of etiquette that goes unspoken, you don't usually need to tell the other person that's what you do, they do it automatically.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:How it's generally done whenever I play is that the player not at the table respots the colours and give a running count of the break then adds it to the scoreboard at the end of the break. It's part of etiquette that goes unspoken, you don't usually need to tell the other person that's what you do, they do it automatically.


thats how it works with me as well when i play.

but with ruling its got to be the responsibility of the player at the table that things are done properly.

i never take a shot unless i know balls where they should be.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:How it's generally done whenever I play is that the player not at the table respots the colours and give a running count of the break then adds it to the scoreboard at the end of the break. It's part of etiquette that goes unspoken, you don't usually need to tell the other person that's what you do, they do it automatically.


i agree, in future well be clarifying this exactly because up until now its always been random. Sometime the player off the table will just sit down and drink and keep the score, and other times he will stand up and pick the balls out of the pocket if they are close to him etc.

Reckon out 9 and a half hour match could have been reduced by a few hours if wed done as you said.

About half the frames went scrappy though as safety dominated and the reds were sent down the baulk end one by one, such was our reluctance to give our opponent any sort of tempter as we were both potting confidently yesterday.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Wildey

god you got to have consistency....

you cant have him sitting down with his feet up and next minute act as ref no wander theres confusion lol

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

Reads very well witz. <laugh>

Sounds like your match was a real humdinger. I'd say winning made the drive back a bit easier. <laugh> Was there any handshakes before & after the match? If there was, Id say the one at the end given by your opponent was done a little begrudgingly. <laugh>

How much do the club charge an hour, must be around £7 pound is it?

As for the rule, well wild has pointed out what the correct ruling is but in the circumstance that you found yourself in, it is open to being abused. The first thing I'd do next time your gonna play is ask if their is a house extension behind the jump. The second thing I'd do is reconsider the format, re-spot each others balls & mark up what you score yourselves. Either that or find yourselves a couple of pairs of boxing gloves & sort it out fisticuff style. <laugh>

All in all a good read witz, one which comes across as enjoyable anyway.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Witz78

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:Reads very well witz. <laugh>

Sounds like your match was a real humdinger. I'd say winning made the drive back a bit easier. <laugh> Was there any handshakes before & after the match? If there was, Id say the one at the end given by your opponent was done a little begrudgingly. <laugh>

How much do the club charge an hour, must be around £7 pound is it?

As for the rule, well wild has pointed out what the correct ruling is but in the circumstance that you found yourself in, it is open to being abused. The first thing I'd do next time your gonna play is ask if their is a house extension behind the jump. The second thing I'd do is reconsider the format, re-spot each others balls & mark up what you score yourselves. Either that or find yourselves a couple of pairs of boxing gloves & sort it out fisticuff style. <laugh>

All in all a good read witz, one which comes across as enjoyable anyway.


Of course we dont shake hands, before or after. Were all good mates (who go down to the Crucible each year) but all friendship goes out the window when we play. The atmosphere becomes tense and bad blooded usually as we take it so seriously and play to win.

Theres obviously gamesmanship on display at times. Ive learnt from past experience to keep my emotions in check, and refrain from cursing and swearing, and slamming my cue on the floor, petulance etc, as all it does is wind you up and you end up beating yourself, rather than the opponent beating you, as you end up making rash shot decisions, pushing the boat out through frustration etc.

The drive down the road was all the better for winning, even though i was on auto pilot by then.

Despite the money involved, once we get into matchplay mode, the money becomes irrelevant and the last thing in our minds, because we are that caught up in the action, and the all-important bragging rights are ultimately as rewarding any cash you win. We dont play with more than we can afford to lose, so theres no real harm done.

Think it must be around £6 an hour the club charge.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:The atmosphere becomes tense and bad blooded usually as we take it so seriously and play to win.


where does match fixing and play to lose for a quick £££££ come in then ?

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby NedB-H

Sonny wrote:How it's generally done whenever I play is that the player not at the table respots the colours and give a running count of the break then adds it to the scoreboard at the end of the break. It's part of etiquette that goes unspoken, you don't usually need to tell the other person that's what you do, they do it automatically.

same :)

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Roland

"Theres obviously gamesmanship on display at times. Ive learnt from past experience to keep my emotions in check, and refrain from cursing and swearing, and slamming my cue on the floor, petulance etc, as all it does is wind you up and you end up beating yourself, rather than the opponent beating you, as you end up making rash shot decisions, pushing the boat out through frustration etc."

Sounds like me you've learned that through experience! It has been my intention for some while to write a blog entry on gamesmanship and it will contain such gems of information. I find the whole gamesmanship thing fascinating. I used to hate it until I practiced against a friend who knew all the tricks and I ended up with a begrudging admiration for him seeing him in action playing mind games and getting the most out of his ability whilst knocking his opponent down to his level. I'm not talking major bad sportsmanship... well most of the time... but as I said he knew all the tricks and they worked. It gave me an appreciation of the grinding player up to the time of practicing with him I never previously had.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Wildey

gamesmanship is a very important part of snooker this might sound harsh but people that don't understand that don't understand snooker...

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

Sonny wrote:"Theres obviously gamesmanship on display at times. Ive learnt from past experience to keep my emotions in check, and refrain from cursing and swearing, and slamming my cue on the floor, petulance etc, as all it does is wind you up and you end up beating yourself, rather than the opponent beating you, as you end up making rash shot decisions, pushing the boat out through frustration etc."

Sounds like me you've learned that through experience! It has been my intention for some while to write a blog entry on gamesmanship and it will contain such gems of information. I find the whole gamesmanship thing fascinating. I used to hate it until I practiced against a friend who knew all the tricks and I ended up with a begrudging admiration for him seeing him in action playing mind games and getting the most out of his ability whilst knocking his opponent down to his level. I'm not talking major bad sportsmanship... well most of the time... but as I said he knew all the tricks and they worked. It gave me an appreciation of the grinding player up to the time of practicing with him I never previously had.

I knew a fella that I once practiced with that gently said you name while you were on the table against him so you'd stop & & ask "what?" He'd always deny he said anything. The same fella, when hitting into a pocket that he was sat behind, would move his cue slightly to the right or left when you were about to hit the cue ball. Murder it was.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Witz78

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:
Sonny wrote:"Theres obviously gamesmanship on display at times. Ive learnt from past experience to keep my emotions in check, and refrain from cursing and swearing, and slamming my cue on the floor, petulance etc, as all it does is wind you up and you end up beating yourself, rather than the opponent beating you, as you end up making rash shot decisions, pushing the boat out through frustration etc."

Sounds like me you've learned that through experience! It has been my intention for some while to write a blog entry on gamesmanship and it will contain such gems of information. I find the whole gamesmanship thing fascinating. I used to hate it until I practiced against a friend who knew all the tricks and I ended up with a begrudging admiration for him seeing him in action playing mind games and getting the most out of his ability whilst knocking his opponent down to his level. I'm not talking major bad sportsmanship... well most of the time... but as I said he knew all the tricks and they worked. It gave me an appreciation of the grinding player up to the time of practicing with him I never previously had.

I knew a fella that I once practiced with that gently said you name while you were on the table against him so you'd stop & & ask "what?" He'd always deny he said anything. The same fella, when hitting into a pocket that he was sat behind, would move his cue slightly to the right or left when you were about to hit the cue ball. Murder it was.


Among the incidents of gamesmanship i had to contend with yersterdat were.....

1) My opponent standing in the line of my shot on numerous occasions

2) My opponent using reverse psychology if i got in among the balls by claiming the frame was over.

3) My opponent using reverse psychology if i had a fairly straight forward potting chance by putting the point/s on the scoreboard before i even played the shot and making sure i heard or saw him do so.

4) My opponent sighing and cursing under his breath whilst i played my shots

5) My opponent placing the money on the side of the table before id played the match winning shot

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Roland

Yep, I don't do those things myself but part of my training by practicing with said person was to learn how to cope with it. He'd say things like "you should win from here" after missing and start to put his cue away in the last frame before I'd potted game ball, lots of things like that.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Tubberlad

I remember blowing a 16-12 lead against my then 17-year-old brother when I was 14, playing for a 50 euro note (big money for a 14 year old). We were playing a best-of-35 match on our 6x3 out in the shed, and I had led all the way through. I remember him popping out for a fag, coming back like a man posessed and knocking in two centuries. I screwed up a colours clearance on the yeallow in the 31st, and missed a balck off it's spot to win the 32nd. He got all cocky, I was frustrated, and he finished up nicely, taking my 50 with him.

I can take solace in the fact that he quickly blew it on more fags and drink <laugh> waster

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Witz78

thetubberlad wrote:I remember blowing a 16-12 lead against my then 17-year-old brother when I was 14, playing for a 50 euro note (big money for a 14 year old). We were playing a best-of-35 match on our 6x3 out in the shed, and I had led all the way through. I remember him popping out for a fag, coming back like a man posessed and knocking in two centuries. I intercoursed up a colours clearance on the yeallow in the 31st, and missed a balck off it's spot to win the 32nd. He got all cocky, I was frustrated, and he finished up nicely, taking my 50 with him.

I can take solace in the fact that he quickly blew it on more fags and drink <laugh> waster


You mention centuries being compiled.....

Did yous really play with 15 reds on a 6x3 table, i always found that pretty impossible as the table was just too crowded to be honest, so stuck to 10 reds only.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Tubberlad

Well, it's acutally a bit more than 6x3, think it's closer to 7x3.5, but that doesn't sound as catchy <laugh> and yes we did play with 15 reds. I rarely hit centuries on it though, my brother's a better player and did it more regularly.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

I once played my brother in Best of 17 on one of those little Pot Black tables. I was 11 and he was 17. He led me 8-2 and I came back and made it 8-8 only to lose the last frame :mood: Looking back at it now he clearly let me came back but I didn't know at the time. This was a few months after the famous Hendry-O'Sullivan Charity Challenge final. Theres was no 147 Brake though.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Roland

That's nothing. When I was 15-18 I used to play my best friend a lot on the 6x3ft and we'd play first to 10 and then first to 10 of first to 10's and first to 10 of those. We were 1 visit standard between us and we had lots of close games but I'll never forget one night - we were 9 matches all and in the next match I lead 9-0 and ended up losing 10-9 which meant I also lost that "set" 10-9 as well.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Casey

7pt foul and you lose your turn. However the fact you have to pull the colours out yourself means it could be easily done. I suppose normally you would want to let a foul like that go but giving the stage of the match and the money on its hard to know what I would have done.

Re: My snooker epic and also a rule query?

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:I had quite a few centuries on my 10 red 6x3 when I was younger


bragger lol

i had a 6ft table as a kid but i needed holes in the bucking walls to be able to cue properly near cushings so centuries was never achieved i made a few 80s and 90s but there was always that shot to difficult on a cush to be able to push on.

i did unscrew a 2 piece but the ballance was wrong and that was marmite.