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Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Bourne

The current 'routine' we have in snooker draws are becoming a bit stale; last 32 at the venue, top 16 vs 16 qualifiers. The Worlds needs to change mostly, last 16 is always the same with 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14 etc ... so we have the situation where we basically know the draw months in advance. Can't we introduce a bit more excitement in draws ?

How about: #1 seed top of the draw, #2 seed bottom of the draw ... #3 and #4 randomly placed in either middle quarter ... #5,#6,#7 and #8 randomly placed, one in each quarter ... THEN the rest of the 24 players randomly placed anywhere in R1. This means that players have more incentive to get into the top-8 instead of the safe-haven of top-16, if you're 16 you're as likely to get a cushy R1 draw as the top-seed is, that can't be right ?

One random draw a season is fine as it is and the World Open works well for that.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby GJ

other ranking events its not straight 1 v 16 and so on its any top 8 seed v 9-16 seed in round 2

so i like that the worlds is different to the other events in this way

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Roland

I can't think that it matters or that it needs changing. Seeded draws should mean the top 8 reach the quarters and top 4 reach the semis and top 2 the final. That's logic. As far as how 9-16 are placed, no matter where you place them you need to know this far in advance of the event for ticket sales.

I think the current system is perfect. We had a poor system for decades up until this year, now finally we have a proper rolling rankings system and an event into the second month of the year where automatic Crucible places are decided. Why does anything need to change?

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:The current 'routine' we have in snooker draws are becoming a bit stale; last 32 at the venue, top 16 vs 16 qualifiers. The Worlds needs to change mostly, last 16 is always the same with 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14 etc ... so we have the situation where we basically know the draw months in advance. Can't we introduce a bit more excitement in draws ?

How about: #1 seed top of the draw, #2 seed bottom of the draw ... #3 and #4 randomly placed in either middle quarter ... #5,#6,#7 and #8 randomly placed, one in each quarter ... THEN the rest of the 24 players randomly placed anywhere in R1. This means that players have more incentive to get into the top-8 instead of the safe-haven of top-16, if you're 16 you're as likely to get a cushy R1 draw as the top-seed is, that can't be right ?

One random draw a season is fine as it is and the World Open works well for that.

yes as GJ said other events change the seedings from year to year or event to event its only the World thats been static for ever

1982 World championship the first with 32 players http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_World ... ampionship

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Tubberlad

I don't see a problem with the formula for conducting a draw. I don't think a defending champion should be number one seed unless he's world number one, but other than that it all makes perfect sense to me.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Monique

I don't see why it should change. What Bourne proposes is unfair on the seeds 9-16. They have earned their spots no less and no more than the seeds 1-8.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Bourne

Monique wrote:I don't see why it should change. What Bourne proposes is unfair on the seeds 9-16. They have earned their spots no less and no more than the seeds 1-8.

So why should it be top 16 ? Why not make it top-32, or 64, or 12 ? Why should #16 get the same rights as #9 ?

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Monique

Bourne wrote:
Monique wrote:I don't see why it should change. What Bourne proposes is unfair on the seeds 9-16. They have earned their spots no less and no more than the seeds 1-8.

So why should it be top 16 ? Why not make it top-32, or 64, or 12 ? Why should #16 get the same rights as #9 ?


Why seeds at all then?
The reason it's a power of 2 is obvious: that's the nature of the knock-out system. The reason it's not more than 16 is probably because it would be too costly to run at venues and/or on television.
The reason there are seeds is also obvious: (most) people need to relate to players and they like to know who they will watch before they buy tickets. If your system applied most spots would not be known before the end of the qualifiers. That's not necessarily comercially wise. People need time to plan their attendance, especially those coming from abroad, and they are many at the Crucible.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Bourne

It's getting stale as it is, at least they've introduced something different at the WO. The tour needs variety and that's not just with formats, but draws too <ok>

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Monique

Bourne wrote:It's getting stale as it is, at least they've introduced something different at the WO. The tour needs variety and that's not just with formats, but draws too <ok>

Well the WC is the ONLY ranking tournament with fixed seeding from 1 to 16. So that makes it different and I see no need to change it.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Bourne

Monique wrote:
Bourne wrote:It's getting stale as it is, at least they've introduced something different at the WO. The tour needs variety and that's not just with formats, but draws too <ok>

Well the WC is the ONLY ranking tournament with fixed seeding from 1 to 16. So that makes it different and I see no need to change it.

The Top 16 being seeded happens at every ranking tournament, nothing at all wrong with changing a couple to have top 8 seeds and random for the rest. Hearn if you're reading, you know it makes sense <ok>

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Monique

The top 16 are seeded in every tournament bar the World Open but only the top 8 have fixed spots, the others are randomly drawn into the 8 remaining ones. So that's different from what happens in the WC.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Roland

To be fair this is the only time I've ever seen any suggestion of changing the seeding positions in the WC draw, and I doubt it's ever occurred to anyone else that it needs changing. It doesn't obviously. No matter how you seed the draw, there will be landmines for some, and clearish pathways for others.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Wildey

yes but what Bourne is saying is Seed the top 8 in the current positions or close to it then get Seed 1 playing seed 9 in the second round instead of 16 every year....theres nothing wrong in that and that how it is done in other tournaments.

then we wont have a scenario at the welsh where tanking is brought up at all prior to that cut off.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Wildey

UK 2007

1
10
12
8
5
9
15
4
3
11
16
7
6
13
14
2

UK 2008

1
12
14
8
7
9
13
4
3
16
15
6
5
11
10
2

Only 6 positions out of 16 is in the same part of the draw.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby vodkadiet

If they stopped automatically pairing 1 with 16, 2 with 15 etc, then players would not tactically lose to get a better Crucible draw.

They could decide that numbers 1,2,3,4 are randomly drawn against 13,14,15,16; and 5,6,7,8 are randomly drawn against 9,10,11,12. By the same token for quarter final pairings, 1,2,3,4 could be randomly drawn against 5,6,7,8; and for semis 1,2 could randomly drawn against 3,4. This is how it works in tennis.

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby Smart

vodkadiet wrote:If they stopped automatically pairing 1 with 16, 2 with 15 etc, then players would not tactically lose to get a better Crucible draw.

They could decide that numbers 1,2,3,4 are randomly drawn against 13,14,15,16; and 5,6,7,8 are randomly drawn against 9,10,11,12. By the same token for quarter final pairings, 1,2,3,4 could be randomly drawn against 5,6,7,8; and for semis 1,2 could randomly drawn against 3,4. This is how it works in tennis.

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby vodkadiet

Smart wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:If they stopped automatically pairing 1 with 16, 2 with 15 etc, then players would not tactically lose to get a better Crucible draw.

They could decide that numbers 1,2,3,4 are randomly drawn against 13,14,15,16; and 5,6,7,8 are randomly drawn against 9,10,11,12. By the same token for quarter final pairings, 1,2,3,4 could be randomly drawn against 5,6,7,8; and for semis 1,2 could randomly drawn against 3,4. This is how it works in tennis.

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:



Stick to football and hooliganism. It is all scousers are good for.

:evilgrin:

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby GJ

vodkadiet wrote:
Smart wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:If they stopped automatically pairing 1 with 16, 2 with 15 etc, then players would not tactically lose to get a better Crucible draw.

They could decide that numbers 1,2,3,4 are randomly drawn against 13,14,15,16; and 5,6,7,8 are randomly drawn against 9,10,11,12. By the same token for quarter final pairings, 1,2,3,4 could be randomly drawn against 5,6,7,8; and for semis 1,2 could randomly drawn against 3,4. This is how it works in tennis.

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:



Stick to football and hooliganism. It is all scousers are good for.

:evilgrin:



:wave: <laugh> rofl

Re: Change the way draws are made !!!

Postby vodkadiet

GJ wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:
Smart wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:If they stopped automatically pairing 1 with 16, 2 with 15 etc, then players would not tactically lose to get a better Crucible draw.

They could decide that numbers 1,2,3,4 are randomly drawn against 13,14,15,16; and 5,6,7,8 are randomly drawn against 9,10,11,12. By the same token for quarter final pairings, 1,2,3,4 could be randomly drawn against 5,6,7,8; and for semis 1,2 could randomly drawn against 3,4. This is how it works in tennis.

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:



Stick to football and hooliganism. It is all scousers are good for.

:evilgrin:





:wave: <laugh> rofl



I forgot to metion that scousers are also good for being hammered every day by 3pm!