Post a reply

A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Tubberlad

With Barry Hearn now on board, we can probably expect sweeping changes, similar to the changes that took place in darts. Some may feel that Hearn is the perfect man for the job, others will disagree entirely. Me? I'll reserve judgement until I see results, but judging by Hearn's track record, I'm cautiously optimistic. However, no matter how anyone feels about Hearn, I think we all hope he does a good job, because at the end of the day, we all want the game to succeed.

However the first mistake anyone could make is ignoring the younger generation of fans. I myself am only seventeen, but I've followed the sport since I was six, and absolutely love it. I like nearly all sports, with the exception of Football, but snooker is the only one I feel truly passionate about. Now, I may be the only young person in my locality that is passionate about the game, with the exception of my 20-year-old bother, but I know plenty who like it, and very little who don't. Unfortunately, I don't know of any local girls who like snooker, and my own girlfriend hates it. But with the lads, it's a winner.

Whenever the World Championship rolls around, many of my mates become snooker experts for a fortnight. Unfortunately, it rarely goes beyond the main event, although occasionally you will get chat during the UK and the Masters. Now, it's a pity that this love of snooker seems to circle around just three tournaments (in truth, only one really captures the imagination amongst them), but the foundation is there. From what I can see, the main problem is that most of the other tournaments feel too 'samey'. Also, no sponsorship means less buzz.

Interesting to note that the two events that create the most buzz are the two longer format tournaments. I've mentioned many times that we need new formats, and what I'd like to see happen is listed here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=270
Basically, the World Championships should be kept as it is, the UK extended, with longer semi-finals for the Grand Prix & Masters, and new format and name for the China Open. Also, around six tournaments carrying similar formats to what we have now, but hopefully with stronger sponsorship, and more atmospheric surroundings in proper snooker towns (ie no Telford or Newport). Although I have high hopes for new venues, higher prize money & more sponsorship, it is with disappointment that I forecast no extensions to tournaments. Thankfully though, Hearn has promised not to tinker with the majors, so at least they won't be shortened.

Formats like sets could be used, and should also be used for six-reds competitions. I don't think six-reds is the way forward by any means, but if we use a cutting edge format like sets in a non-ranking environment, it could do what it was supposed to do: attract younger fans. Overall though, this will not be a huge bread-winner, and I don't think Hearn will deal too deeply with it (it was Walker's idea, it must be remembered). I have no problem with a few six-reds events, but no ranking points.

Get interest back in at grass-roots. Nothing wrong with a few glorified pro-ams to spark interest in various places.

Market the top personalities. It's an absolute myth that we have no characters in the game. Neil Robertson, Liang Wenbo, O'Sullivan, Mark Selby, Mark Allen....just a few of many who can spark interest. Characters were what got many interested during the 80's, and not much has changed now.

How can we get more girls interested? Well, unless you get me playing professionally, it's a tough one to call ;) maybe a few of our female posters have a few ideas?

I'm not suggesting that we should ignore or alienate the most important fans, those who've stuck by the game through thick & thin. And I certainly don't think that loud darts-style crowds are acceptable. But there's plenty that can be done, and their is more than enough room for a younger generation of fans.

Believe me, I know.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Rocket_ron

thetubberlad wrote:Whenever the World Championship rolls around, many of my mates become snooker experts for a fortnight. Unfortunately, it rarely goes beyond the main event, although occasionally you will get chat during the UK and the Masters.


I know what that's like

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Monique

Good article Tub. <ok>

Regarding the girls in the game...
I wrote an article on Matts blog sometime ago on the suject. It's here: http://prosnookerblog.com/2009/11/21/so ... n-snooker/
It's worth to read the comments aswell as some come from people well involved in the game, notably coaches.
I would like to add also, if you really want us girls to be interested in the game, stop patronizing us, stop the macho attitude. Reactions on other forums about the "girls in the game", and even on here ;), are quite revealing: "women are inferior", "women will never be as good as men"... etc. This is quite off-putting, especially when you are a teenager, and it's the young ones we need to get on board as first priority. Also, treat us as players and opponents, not sex objects. I'm no prude - you will soon find out - and I like my banter. But when you're only 13-15, things are different. And suggestions that you should wear a mini shirt (preferably with a thong under it) and exhibit a deep cleavage are not on.

Regarding formats. Yes bring as many different formats as possible and see what works. Don't touch the core of the game, don't touch the formats and rules of the rankers, but add fun and diversity in invitationals. I was in the OneForSeven in Cardiff and it was really good as an entertainment. The players were relaxed and available to the audience, especially the young audience. The format allowed for kids to run around, not to be constraint on a seat for hours. As a consequence many had come to this as a family and enjoyed it. I'm sure many a kid, boy or girl, will have gone home with the desire to try it soon. And that's important, very important. It's important to keep the tradition. It's important to keep the game honest. But it's also important to keep it alive and even growing. And therefore we need "entry level" events, not just hard core fans treats. "A dead Jew is no use for the service of God" said Maimonide some 500 years ago ... well mutatis, mutandis... it applies to snooker just as much.

OT pictures from the OneForSEven:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4 ... 8aa64e9040
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4 ... 3a30a584ce

And I'll be this week-end in Eastbourne for the South Coast Classic Ladies ranking event in Eastbourne. So more pics to come. And I hope some impressions on Jasmine Bolsover, 10 yo, newcomer on the ladies tour.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Casey

Mon, cant say I would fancy seeing 13/14 year olds wearing thongs playing snooker, but the older ones ... ;)

Na in all seriousness I can imagine that snooker clubs full of boys could be intimidating for girls/women, maybe even more so in the UK and IRE with the back alley setting and all that. IMO it would benefit the game to have a few ladies at the top of the game, the 6 reds WC was an example of this with lots of people interested to see how Reanne Evans got on in her matches.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

rocket_ron wrote:
thetubberlad wrote:Whenever the World Championship rolls around, many of my mates become snooker experts for a fortnight. Unfortunately, it rarely goes beyond the main event, although occasionally you will get chat during the UK and the Masters.


I know what that's like


I was like that myself. I followed all the events I could when I was a child in the 90's but once I started secondary school in 1998 my interest faded apart from the Worlds. The 2003 WC got me interested again and I followed the whole 2003-04 season. But then I lost interest again for a few years. It's hard to follow when theres nothing going on for such long periods of time.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

How popular is Womens Pool. I sometimes see highlights of the events on Sky and have heard that it's bigger than the mens game. Letting the WPBSA take over Snooker would never be likely to lead to a bright future. They couldn't even run the mens game right.

One comment I've often heard about Womens Tennis is that any people watch it to look at Sharapova or Ivanovic. But during the 90's when womens tennis was bigger than it is now the top players included the likes of Lindsey Davenport and earlier in the decade Martina Navratalova. It's not just about the players looks.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Rocket_ron

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:How popular is Womens Pool. I sometimes see highlights of the events on Sky and have heard that it's bigger than the mens game. Letting the WPBSA take over Snooker would never be likely to lead to a bright future. They couldn't even run the mens game right.

One comment I've often heard about Womens Tennis is that any people watch it to look at Sharapova or Ivanovic. But during the 90's when womens tennis was bigger than it is now the top players included the likes of Lindsey Davenport and earlier in the decade Martina Navratalova. It's not just about the players looks.


sex sells in this world, its all about looks i'm afraid.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Wildey

thetubberlad wrote:Whenever the World Championship rolls around, many of my mates become snooker experts for a fortnight. Unfortunately, it rarely goes beyond the main event, although occasionally you will get chat during the UK and the Masters.


thats why i question these 6 reds,shot clock,best of 5 quick fix ideas thats being doing the rounds. if a 17 days,15 reds best of 19,25,33 and 35 frame tournaments brings out of the woodwork all sort of fans why do the powers that be see quick fix short matches the answer to the problem. isn't it a case of having more longer formats that could be the answer.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Tubberlad

Monique, I am actually seventeen, and I have never had a 'macho' attitude. I am not patronising towards women, and I don't, in any way, see ladies as inferior. Quite the opposite, they're generally far more intelligent for one. Do I think women can compete with men? They can compete with us in pretty much nearly every other department, so maybe. I genuinely don't know, maybe they can. And if they can, I have no problem with that at all, I'd see it as a good thing.

By the way, when I make comments about ladies dressing up attractively, take it with a pinch of salt. Obviously I don't actually mean what I say. As much as I'd like it <laugh>

Sorry we got the lines crossed, but I'm not sexist at all, that needed to be cleared up.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Tubberlad

And by the way, that's a terrific article Monique, well done. Very sad to hear about Hannah Jones. Her father is a total gentleman if his postings on break-off were anything to go by.

A great prospect like that should be nurtured by all who love the game <ok>

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Monique

Nothing actually "happened" to Hannah. But she's not yet 14 and already she's considering taking pool rather than snooker because there she could make a living of it.
Last edited by Monique on 04 Feb 2010, edited 1 time in total.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Wildey

Cheesyman99 wrote:I am pretty much the only one in my year at school who likes snooker. Others just say it's boring, so if you want to appeal to youngsters. Make it exciting. Don't know how, that's up to Barry Hearn.


i came across that response 25 years ago round about 1985 however that didnt stop them hiding away watching snooker in the privacy of their own home.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Alex0paul

rocket_ron wrote:
Sonny wrote:What happened to Hannah Jones?

second that


With all due respect she isn't that great a player. She is a decent ladies player but if you look at her breaks etc its highly unlikely she would ever reach a high enough level in snooker. Could follow Alison Fisher and do well in Pool.

I would like to see Reanne Evans given a wildcard for the Masters or a future high profile Invitational event like a Champions Cup or something.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Monique

I agree Hannah is not Luca Brecel. Now Hannah, contrary to Luca, is a normal schoolgirl and all her life is not revolving around snooker. Which IMO is absolutely the right thing to do considering the prospects ladies can have in snooker.
And even if the prospects were brighter, it is still my opinion that it's the right thing to do. Luca is educated privately. All his life is organised around the game. I can tell you his social skills are very, very poor (rings a bell?) and he isn't trained to anything else. What if it does not work for him? What if in a few years he wants something else? I don't think it's right for a kid of 14 to be deprieved from what is a normal life. It's far too early for him to take a definitive orientation in life and I'm not sure how much the decisions are his BTW. It may be great for the game if it works, but it's NOT great for the person. For one who succeeds, how many fail and are left bitter? Or barely make a living of it?
And I know ... I've read it a zillion time "nobody is greater than the game"... well sorry guys but for me every single player as a person is more important than the game: they have only this life and they deserve to be allowed to live it and, if possible, to live it happily. The game is safe, it will go on. They might not.
Last edited by Monique on 05 Feb 2010, edited 1 time in total.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Roland

This is entirely true. However if you go inside the mind of a teenager who is brilliant at snooker I can promise you nothing else will matter to him. It's a motherly thing to do to show him there are other things in the world than snooker and that to develop social skills is important, but for the kid himself he is going to do what he wants to do at that age and chances are that means 12 hours of snooker every day! It's up to his mother to instill some values and get him some life skills away from snooker.

I've seen plenty of kids who thought they would make it do the same only to have that moment at the age of 19/20 when they realise it's not going to happen. It's pretty tragic in itself because then it's time to self destruct, but Brecel will be alright in that regard. And all players get to the point in their late 20's when they come out of their shell after being introverted early on e.g. Hendry, John Higgins. You can see Trump and Cope are still a few years off the same thing happening.

In fact the more I think about it the more you're right Monique. This is pretty widespread and maybe has something to do with the publics perception of machine like play and no characters.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

Monique wrote:I agree Hannah is not Luca Brecel. Now Hannah, contrary to Luca, is a normal schoolgirl and all her life is not revolving around snooker. Which IMO is absolutely the right thing to do considering the prospects ladies can have in snooker.
And even if the prospects were brighter, it is still my opinion that it's the right thing to do. Luca is educated privately. All is life is organised around the game. I can tell you his social skills are very, very poor (rings a bell?) and he isn't trained to anything else. What if it does not work for him? What if in a few years he wants something else? I don't think it's right for a kid of 14 to be deprieved from what is a normal life. It's far too early for him to take a definitive orientation in life and I'm not sure how much the decisions are his BTW. It may be great for the game if it works, but it's NOT great for the person. For one who succeeds, how many fail and are left bitter? Or barely make a living of it?
And I know ... I've read it a zillion time "nobody is greater than the game"... well sorry guys but for me every single player as a person is more important than the game: they have only this life and they deserve to be allowed to live it and, if possible, to live it happily. The game is safe, it will go on. They might not.


I know exactly what your saying Mon (Nice to see you here by the way).

I played that young 15 year old Israeli Shachar Ruberg. Talk about a kid being put under pressure. They had 3 camcorders on him filming the match. The kid was a bundle of nerves. I gave him a smile when we shook hands & he could barely open his mouth. When I tried to talk to him after the match his father or uncle, not sure who was who, stepped in & done the talking for him. I looked at the kid & I seen a lost soul. I talked to a top Pro about the situation after asking him if he thinks that's right & "Not at all" came back the response. You do wonder.

Good Morning All by the way.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:This is entirely true. However if you go inside the mind of a teenager who is brilliant at snooker I can promise you nothing else will matter to him. It's a motherly thing to do to show him there are other things in the world than snooker and that to develop social skills is important, but for the kid himself he is going to do what he wants to do at that age and chances are that means 12 hours of snooker every day! It's up to his mother to instill some values and get him some life skills away from snooker.

I've seen plenty of kids who thought they would make it do the same only to have that moment at the age of 19/20 when they realise it's not going to happen. It's pretty tragic in itself because then it's time to self destruct, but Brecel will be alright in that regard. And all players get to the point in their late 20's when they come out of their shell after being introverted early on e.g. Hendry, John Higgins. You can see Trump and Cope are still a few years off the same thing happening.

In fact the more I think about it the more you're right Monique. This is pretty widespread and maybe has something to do with the publics perception of machine like play and no characters.


Even John Parrott was a shy kid and as for Jimmy White he had the personality of a wet weekend in his youth.

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby markj147

May I clarify a few points about Hannah.

She is a great little ladies player who, with the current standard in the ladies game below the top 6, can compete and win matches. She has taken frames off Reanne, Maria, Katie and Emma.

She has proven to be a good ambassador for the sport through exhibitions, interviews and her attitude at events.

She plays very infrequently, I would like her to play 5-6 times a week. If she practices twice a week I am lucky. She has practiced only a few times in the 3 weeks before the South Coast Classic and a plate final place was a great effort on her part because she did struggle so much on the day.

She has ALOT of schoolwork which takes priority, her school are great but they want academic results to be the priority (of course).

She doesn't have a snooker table in her house and relies on me to get her to the local snooker club which is a 15 minute drive away. Work being what it is I am finding it more and more difficult to do get there.

Hannah has been a vehicle for information about the WLBSA and the ladies game. She competes on the EASB Regional Tour Under 21 (lads) and is ranked about mid table and qualified for the knockout stages for the first time in the first 2 events this season. She qualified for the Under 14's as the only female. She was the Derbyshire Under 17 and Under 15 runner up again the only girl. She competes in the Derby institutes leagues and is a feared player here ;) She is not on current form, going to become a professional or even a top amateur in this country but then again who really knows.

Her break board was an exercise to see if I can establish a pattern in her improvement. I must say that I do not put breaks on there anymore unless I remember - which is not often and with her exceptional height and rate of growth over the past couple of years she has really screwed up her stance, cueaction and alignment and as a result she is currently struggling, if anything the break board may not have been a good idea.

Reanne and her dad rate Hannah highly and say that Hannah is streets ahead of Reanne at the same age.

I would love there to be a future for Hannah in cuesports and in the current climate there will not be one in this country, however with all the recent shake ups there may be something in the game for her and that may be behind the camera instead of in front of it and playing at a high level and receiving the publicity that she does may help her get there.

Luca Brecel she is not she doesn't have his opportunities or his talent or, dare I say it, his drive.

Hannah has done and continues to do her bit for ladies snooker and in another way snooker in general, sometimes unwittingly. For that I am proud and greatful to have her as a daughter. I have been guilty of putting pressure on Hannah to improve faster and further and for that I am sorry - it didn't work - I only wish Hannah had more opportunities to be able to make the decisions about her future that she alone has to make.

Now Jasmine Bolsover the 10 year old may prove to be the one to break through but who knows, the same was said about Hannah in the early days but I still cannot say whether Hannah will give the game up or not or move to another cuesport.

Jasmine has her own table in the house and practices every day and has done for a couple of years. Her dad used to play the game and is teaching her the basics and more importantly she is a lovely girl to talk to. I wish her all the best and hope that the publicity surrounding her will generate more interest and not put her under any pressure (double edged sword). I know that Tim Dunkley is coaching a couple of girls in his neck of the woods and will be introducing them to the WLBSA in the future. Who knows the junior event may be well subscribed in the future and a female professional could be discovered!

This isn't really in response to anyone. I just felt like writing it in this thread.

Oh and hello everyone.

Alex0paul, you sir are correct about Hannah and I too would like to see Reanne's profile raised in the coming years. :)

TheTubberLad - you are too kind, you hardly know me...lol :)

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby Casey

MarkJ

Firstly, hello and welcome aboard :wave: . I enjoyed reading your comments, its nice to see the views of a family member close to the game. You are obviously a very proud father and proud of your daughters achievements, rightly so. I would imagine the next couple of years will determine what path her life takes, at the minute I think everybody would agree that education is paramount but as you mention thinks within the game things could be about to change (for the good).

If Hannah was to choose a career in cuesports could she compete in more than one discipline? i.e pool and snooker, I’m not sure of the logistics or the timings if its possible. It would be a shame for snooker to lose such a talent, but with the financial climate we live in we all know the importance of a steady income. It’s a real shame at the minute snooker cannot guarantee one

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby markj147

Thanks for the welcome case_master wc :)

Hannah enjoys all cuesports at the moment including billiards. She plays english pool for Derbyshire and is the current ladies Derbyshire champion. she is also making inroads into the EPA Ladies International Tour which has some awesome players playing on it. She made more money at pool last year than she did at snooker and that would stay the same if she improved in both sports.

Personally I would like her to be recognised as a true talent in the ladies snooker game and be discussed along with Reanne, Maria, Kelly, Stacey, Lisa, Karen and Allison in the future mainly because snooker is so much harder than 8-ball (stand back for retaliation ;) ). She has intimated that she would like to try out 9-Ball and with the limited attempts that she has had she finds that she enjoys the game but also recognises that she would have to come to terms with different aspects of the cuesports game such as shape, sequential ball potting and bank/ jump shots and combinations, which takes most many years to get to grips with.

In a nutshell I don't think you can split yourself between different disciplines unless it is recreationally or you focus on one and dabble with the others. I should ask Hannah really and see what she says and come back to you guys with an answer from the players mouth as it were... :)

Re: A younger generation of fans can be brought in

Postby markj147

It is just one match though. Eva is a very strong and capable player who struggles on some days. Hannah beat her in the East Anglian Plate final but she can play very well as well. If you were playing the current Number 5 June Banks and not the provisional number 5 Eva then I think you would have a different perspective because June is a century breaker, she dropped out of the provisional top 10 because she has stopped playing. However your point stands the womens game is not great outside of the top 4 but that is what we have to play with and hopefully more players will mean more strength and depth. Back in the day - I hate that phrase - the top 16 were all as good as Reanne, or so I am led to believe but back then they had over 90 players on the ranking list.