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Ding the merciless!!

Postby Casey

Ding is still only 23 years of age but has already achieved more than many players do in a lifetime. To put this in to context Ronnie O’Sullivan was also on three majors at the age of 23 (2 xUK’s and one Masters)
When we think of the greats we talk about Williams, Higgins, Ronnie, Hendry and Davis; Ding is the next great. Its been a long time from any player could be added to that list but he is well on his way. Of course he has to win the World title to achieve that status but in the coming years that won’t be a problem.
One World title and his short career will already eclipse the likes of Ebdon, Doherty and Parrott and he will be making inroads to mark Williams title haul.
Ding is great for the game and I very much look forward to him being talked about in the same breath as past/present greats.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Casey

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I also want to add that he won three ranking titles as a teenager.
His quota of century breaks per season is near the one Hendry/Ronnie have.


Much greater in fact! he made 100 centuries in 5 seasons will far less tournaments and matches than Ronnie and Hendry had to play in.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby SnookerFan

I think it was interesting to see what Steve Davis and John Parrott were saying about Ding. We all know he capitulated under the abuse he suffered in 2007, what with so called fans shouting at him merciless, saying he didn't deserve to be there playing etc. But they also implied that he thought he was the best player ever, and when Ronnie hit him in full flow, he realised he wasn't. And that hurt him.

I was at Wembley for his Wildcard round match in 2007, and his semi against Hendry. I thought he was on his way to being the best player in the world too. I was seeing him, at a young age doing stuff I've only seen Ronnie do before. He was winning frames in less then ten minutes. I don't think any frame he won went longer then, like 9 minutes. He was every bit the machine we were comparing him too in the final. I was like :eek: It was easy to see why he thought he was the Don Dapper. Realising he wasn't hurt him for while, but I think it helped him in the long term too.

A few years out of form, and he was back making it to final after final last season. He won the 2008 UK Championship, and the 2010 Masters. (At the arena he had demons from.) I can see Ding winning more finals now. He's more mature, more experienced. Has learned to play safety when needed, more patient.

I hope he does get at least one World Championship. The Crucible has been a bit of a bogey venue for him. Let's hope he can get a good run together this year. See if he can take the fear out of playing there too.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:
Snooker Overdrive wrote:I also want to add that he won three ranking titles as a teenager.
His quota of century breaks per season is near the one Hendry/Ronnie have.


Much greater in fact! he made 100 centuries in 5 seasons will far less tournaments and matches than Ronnie and Hendry had to play in.

i think the fuss that was made of the table this week sort of pin pointed why he made 100 centuries faster than Ronnie and Hendry but even still a fantastic achievement.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Sickpotter

The Masters win was terrific, congrats Ding :clap:

That said, let's not get ahead of ourselves. No disrespect to Marco but he's no Higgins/Ronnie and didn't put Ding under the heat. Had he run into an experienced finalist it could easily have been a very different story.

When Ding first appeared and immediately started winning I was thinking that we could be seeing the next Ronnie/Hendry. Suddenly the wheels came off and he began to look very vulnerable. He was used to beating everyone in sight and suddenly he was losing. Once he realized that the other pros were quite capable of steamrolling him it was a serious confidence hit that took him a couple of years to deal with.

Ding is put under tremendous pressure every tournament. If a few more Chinese make it up the rankings that might change but at the moment he's the hope of a nation and that's very hard to handle. It's an added pressure that other pros do not have to deal with.

Living away from home brings a ton of pressure as well, very few can deal with it for extended periods. Those who've managed it before at least had English as a primary language so they weren't as isolated as Ding is.

While he is capable of running ton after ton that's his "A" game. When he's not in that frame of mind and things aren't going well he doesn't seem to have that fighting spirit. Close/scrappy frames don't seem to go his way that much, he tends to win frames in one visit or not at all. Basically, I'm not impressed by his "B" game and to get a title total up there with Hendry or Ronnie or Higgins you've got to be able to win even when not playing your best.

I'd love to see someone come along and take over for Ronnie/Higgins but ATM I don't think Ding is the best candidate. Could very well change but not ATM IMO.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Eirebilly

I am still not totally convinced that Ding is strong enough mentally to win the worlds yet. He still looks to me like he is easily frustrated. A matchplayer like Higgins, Selby or Robbo would have gotton into his head last night and beat him.

Excellent player that is developing well but i feel he is just not quite there yet.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Wildey

Eirebilly wrote:I am still not totally convinced that Ding is strong enough mentally to win the worlds yet. He still looks to me like he is easily frustrated. A matchplayer like Higgins, Selby or Robbo would have gotton into his head last night and beat him.

Excellent player that is developing well but i feel he is just not quite there yet.

session snooker is totally different over 17 days.

he has played only 3 best of 25s and lost all 3 Hendry twice and Murphy last year id like to see him have a run first before i make judgement to see what he has in the tank for a 4 session semi and final.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Eirebilly

Bang on Sickpotter and Wild.

Dont get me wrong, i think that he is an amazing talent and winning the Masters is some achievement but the worlds is a completely different kettle of fish entirely. I am just not sure if he has the mental strength just yet to win it.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Bourne

I feel it's a little bit disrespectful that Ding cruises to this title and people still say 'well he wouldn't have beaten Selby/Higgins etc'. Hang on, weren't they in this tournament ? Why weren't they in the final against him ? Ding beat Higgins 10-8 in a UK final, that's no mean feat whatsoever. He's come on a hell of a long way in the last few years. Marco played terrifically all week but Ding outplayed him from frame one, set his stall out with the century and also managed to withstand Marco's early spurt in the evening session. Is every tournament he wins now where he doesn't beat a so-called 'top player' in the final going to be followed with question-marks about his temperament against those names ? Yes sure he needs to improve in Sheffield but he will, that goes without saying. But I wish people would judge the performances instead of the names he beat or didn't beat <ok>

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Wildey

but what i will say without a doubt.

if we think some of our english players (ie trump) got hype on their shoulders they should try and be ding for a day.

with the pressure and hype this guy has had since he was 14 almost 10 years to have won 2 UK and now the masters and 2 other Rankers he has already fulfilled that hype as case said he is equal to Ronnie with majors at 23 that cant be underestimated.

its exciting for the game what ding could achieve in the next 10 years because hes done brilliantly for the last 10 years from junior snooker to a deserving WN 4.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Casey

Bourne wrote:I feel it's a little bit disrespectful that Ding cruises to this title and people still say 'well he wouldn't have beaten Selby/Higgins etc'. Hang on, weren't they in this tournament ? Why weren't they in the final against him ? Ding beat Higgins 10-8 in a UK final, that's no mean feat whatsoever. He's come on a hell of a long way in the last few years. Marco played terrifically all week but Ding outplayed him from frame one, set his stall out with the century and also managed to withstand Marco's early spurt in the evening session. Is every tournament he wins now where he doesn't beat a so-called 'top player' in the final going to be followed with question-marks about his temperament against those names ? Yes sure he needs to improve in Sheffield but he will, that goes without saying. But I wish people would judge the performances instead of the names he beat or didn't beat <ok>


Here, here.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby GJ

Bourne wrote:I feel it's a little bit disrespectful that Ding cruises to this title and people still say 'well he wouldn't have beaten Selby/Higgins etc'. Hang on, weren't they in this tournament ? Why weren't they in the final against him ? Ding beat Higgins 10-8 in a UK final, that's no mean feat whatsoever. He's come on a hell of a long way in the last few years. Marco played terrifically all week but Ding outplayed him from frame one, set his stall out with the century and also managed to withstand Marco's early spurt in the evening session. Is every tournament he wins now where he doesn't beat a so-called 'top player' in the final going to be followed with question-marks about his temperament against those names ? Yes sure he needs to improve in Sheffield but he will, that goes without saying. But I wish people would judge the performances instead of the names he beat or didn't beat <ok>



mate ignore it

its the same :bs: about robbos titles as he had easier draws

:farmer: :tvrky:

ding <cool>

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Eirebilly

Bourne, I am not being disrespectfull towards Ding. All i am saying is that he has moments where he gets frustrated and goes well off the boil. Its at those moments when good matchplayers will get under his skin. I am not saying that he wont get this mental strength as its clearly visible that he is getting stronger. Time will tell just how far he goes but i am just not convinced of his mental strength to win the worlds just yet.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Eirebilly

Also, i dont underestimate his run to the final as he had to play some tremendous snooker. A more than deserved winner of the Masters.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:I feel it's a little bit disrespectful that Ding cruises to this title and people still say 'well he wouldn't have beaten Selby/Higgins etc'. Hang on, weren't they in this tournament ? Why weren't they in the final against him ? Ding beat Higgins 10-8 in a UK final, that's no mean feat whatsoever. He's come on a hell of a long way in the last few years. Marco played terrifically all week but Ding outplayed him from frame one, set his stall out with the century and also managed to withstand Marco's early spurt in the evening session. Is every tournament he wins now where he doesn't beat a so-called 'top player' in the final going to be followed with question-marks about his temperament against those names ? Yes sure he needs to improve in Sheffield but he will, that goes without saying. But I wish people would judge the performances instead of the names he beat or didn't beat <ok>

in winning Tournaments ding has

Beaten Hendry,Ronnie,Higgins,Davis in Finals and in his one and only Ranking Title Fu beat Ronnie playing Well

Ok Davis and Hendry wasent at their Best at the Time BUT at Dings age you could argue beating thoes Legends was a Bridge to far for him in a Final but he coped with it well lets be fair on that Sickpotter <ok>

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby GJ

its all about number of titles i couldnt care who robbo beats

if the other so called favs lose early its not robbos problem same with ding and his titles

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Bourne

Eirebilly wrote:Bourne, I am not being disrespectfull towards Ding. All i am saying is that he has moments where he gets frustrated and goes well off the boil. Its at those moments when good matchplayers will get under his skin. I am not saying that he wont get this mental strength as its clearly visible that he is getting stronger. Time will tell just how far he goes but i am just not convinced of his mental strength to win the worlds just yet.

Yeh that's fair enough but there can't be many players in the history of the game that haven't been susceptible to a bit of pressure ? Even Hendry at his best has produced bad shots when under the cosh on the biggest stages, but Ding seems to get an awful lot more stick for it than anyone else. Remember he was still only a teenager in 07, a kid basically. He's matured massively since then, could you imagine him joking around with the referee and cracking jokes in interviews this time 2 years ago ? He's definitely more relaxed in himself now and I think the fact he's learnt the lingo certainly helps.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Eirebilly

I always understood that by winning a titel you had beaten the best who had beaten the best. There is absolutely no easy runs to finals or titels.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Wildey

Hendry in commentary has said how much he emphasise with Ding because all ding same as Hendry wants to do is clear up and he just like ding when he played a bad shot and a bad miss they want to kick themselves and that is a slight weakens and that happened with Ding last night for a few frames but then he managed to re focus and close the match out impressively.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Eirebilly

Bourne wrote:
Eirebilly wrote:Bourne, I am not being disrespectfull towards Ding. All i am saying is that he has moments where he gets frustrated and goes well off the boil. Its at those moments when good matchplayers will get under his skin. I am not saying that he wont get this mental strength as its clearly visible that he is getting stronger. Time will tell just how far he goes but i am just not convinced of his mental strength to win the worlds just yet.

Yeh that's fair enough but there can't be many players in the history of the game that haven't been susceptible to a bit of pressure ? Even Hendry at his best has produced bad shots when under the cosh on the biggest stages, but Ding seems to get an awful lot more stick for it than anyone else. Remember he was still only a teenager in 07, a kid basically. He's matured massively since then, could you imagine him joking around with the referee and cracking jokes in interviews this time 2 years ago ? He's definitely more relaxed in himself now and I think the fact he's learnt the lingo certainly helps.


No doubt Bourne, on that i am totally with you. What he has achieved at such a young age is absolutely brilliant. I love it and really enjoy watching him play. That said, at times he reminds me of Ronnie when things are getting difficult, he does look very flustered. Of course all players get flustered but Ding seems to go into his shell somewhat. What he is doing more and more now though is not allowing it to affect him for so long and if he can continue this progress then i can see him being a multiple world champion. I just think that its still too early for him.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Bourne

Wild wrote:Hendry in commentary has said how much he emphasise with Ding because all ding same as Hendry wants to do is clear up and he just like ding when he played a bad shot and a bad miss they want to kick themselves and that is a slight weakens and that happened with Ding last night for a few frames but then he managed to re focus and close the match out impressively.

Yeh that's spot on, and I can't deny that's an area of his game that he'll have to improve on to win the World title, but it would be a bit scary to think he was the finished article already at this age, there's always things to improve on.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Wildey

i liked having hendry in the box this week we got to know more about him and how he sees other players strengths or weakness and during one stint he said that if he had Mark Williams attitude to missing shots or pots he would have won more tournaments and i think that's right but on the flip-side if Mark Williams had better cue ball control as Stephen had he would have win more.

all players got strengths and weaknesses at the end of the day you win as much as you can by maximise the strengths you have in your game.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Eirebilly

I loved Hendry in the commentary box. Evcellent commentator that knew what to say and when to say it. He didnt go on about golf or any other rubbish, just about snooker.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Bourne

Yeh he's a fantastic addition for the beeb, so clear that he knows his stuff inside out and loves the game and it really comes across.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Sickpotter

All I'm saying is that we've gotten over-excited about Ding's prospects/career in the past and been shown that it was too early to be making those kinds of judgements.

I think Ding is a great player and he's made great advancements mentally over the last few years. Certain to win a WC (if not more than one) at some point in his career.

But..... he still has mental issues to deal with before he'll have a shot at reaching the heights of Ronnie and Hendry.

Short formats he's good with but he fully admits to having trouble maintaining that focus over longer matches.

"“This feels very special,” said Ding. “I think I still need more experience for a longer match at the World Championship. I am okay over shorter games, two or three frames, but it becomes more difficult to keep concentration over the longer distance." - http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/17012011/ ... glory.html

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby SnookerFan

Eirebilly wrote:I loved Hendry in the commentary box. Excellent commentator that knew what to say and when to say it. He didnt go on about golf or any other rubbish, just about snooker.


I think the fact that he is still a top-16 player helped, because he knew about all the other players. He could say sensible things about the players he was watching. And he opens his mouth to say it when there is something to say.

Unlike Virgo, who mentions golf all the time, and nearly spunked himself every time he saw Patsy Fagan.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Wildey

yes but before we get sidetracked on Hendry the commentator lol

the point i was making is Ding might have a weakness in his game but his strengths over rides the weakness.

a few years back Robbo went more defensive because he thought that would turn him in to a better player and it hindered it i think players should play a shot how they feel it on instinct and by over thinking what you do wrong you forget what you used to do right.

nothing is better than playing your natural game and both Ding and Robbo are doing that now and getting the rewards.

Re: Ding the mercyless!!

Postby Sickpotter

Strengths override the weaknesses when you have enough consistency.

Ding doesn't feel his consistency is there over the long haul so his weakness can be taken advantage of.

Certainly you don't want to change your natural game/rythm, you'll never achieve consistent results by forcing yourself to play a different game. I'm not suggesting Ding change his style of play but he's got to work on his B game so he can win matches when out of sorts. Once he starts doing that he'll be a complete player who's almost 100% to make the "greatests" list.


   

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