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How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Witz78

Just looking at the recordbooks there and i cant help but think that Ronnies tally of 4 Masters wins is nothing like what it should be.

Other than his 10-8 win over Selby when both players played at their top level and Ronnie deservedly edged it his 3 other wins have been comprehesive destructions (9-3 and 10-3 v Higgins, 10-3 v Ding) so if we now agree that he deservedly won all these titles we can now focus on his 5 finals that he lost.

1996 - 5-10 v Hendry - cant argue with that loss
1997 - 8-10 v Davis - should never have lost an 8-4 lead to a past his peak Davis.
2004 - 9-10 v Hunter - should never have lost a 7-2 lead to Hunter
2006 - 9-10 v Higgins - 9-8 up then 60 odd up in decider and i remember this final frame vividly and he definetly threw that one away no matter how go0d Higgins pressure clearance was.
2010 - 9-10 v Selby - should never lose from 9-6 up and had a few rash shot selections at various points that cost him in the next 4 frames.

So upon reflection id say Ronnie should definelty have at least 7 Masters titles to his name, possibly 8 infact.

Whats your thoughts?

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Bourne

Destiny is destiny imo, you win what you win and lose what you lose, maybe on another day he'd have lost to Ding, or Higgins etc, or he'd have lost to Williams in the semis last year etc. This sport is cruel sometimes !

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Casey

Well if you look at what should have been, Ronnie should not not have been the final last year. Williams missed a criminal red in the last frame.

Its certainly been his best tournament though.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Wildey

we could argue how many this how many that until the cows come home you win the frame needed to win then you should win that tournament.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Tubberlad

Alex0paul WC wrote:3. Selby should have beaten him in 2009.

No, Ronnie deserved that win.
He should have won in 1997 & 2006. I think Hunter was deserving in 2004 as he was absolutely quality from 7-2 down, while Selby deserved the 2010 win.

Six, but it doesn't matter. Four it is.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Wildey

yes Mark Williams should be UK Champ but he isnt the list goes on and on and very pointless.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Tubberlad

wildJONESEYE wrote:yes Mark Williams should be UK Champ but he isnt the list goes on and on and very pointless.

Absolutely <ok>

White should be a double World Champion. He's not.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Wildey

thetubberlad wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:yes Mark Williams should be UK Champ but he isnt the list goes on and on and very pointless.

Absolutely <ok>

White should be a double World Champion. He's not.

Dennis Taylor Shouldn't have been talking about 1985 for 25 years but he is <laugh>

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Tubberlad

wildJONESEYE wrote:
thetubberlad wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:yes Mark Williams should be UK Champ but he isnt the list goes on and on and very pointless.

Absolutely <ok>

White should be a double World Champion. He's not.

Dennis Taylor Shouldn't have been talking about 1985 for 25 years but he is <laugh>

rofl

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Witz78

SnookerFan wrote:And how many would Ronnie have won if Paul Hunter hadn't have died when he did? I often wonder that.


lets cut the chase here and do away with all the sentimental stuff, yeh it was a tragedy what happened to Paul but i wont let that cloud my thoughts.

He was lucky to win 3 and could and should have lost all 3.

Had he continued playing i doubt he would have won anymore, hed done well to rack up a tally of 3 considering the deficeits in each final.

And the focus of his career should have switched to rankers and ultimately the Worlds in the future as thats the benchmark.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:And how many would Ronnie have won if Paul Hunter hadn't have died when he did? I often wonder that.


lets cut the chase here and do away with all the sentimental stuff, yeh it was a tragedy what happened to Paul but i wont let that cloud my thoughts.

He was lucky to win 3 and could and should have lost all 3.

Had he continued playing i doubt he would have won anymore, hed done well to rack up a tally of 3 considering the deficeits in each final.

And the focus of his career should have switched to rankers and ultimately the Worlds in the future as thats the benchmark.


you dont win 3 masters through luck you win them and he won them because he had the heart of a lion yes you could argue inconsistencies in his game meant he went behind in the first place but thats the easy part what separates good with great is the ability to dust yourself down and play your natrual game under pressure that what paul did in all 3 masters he won....he did not grind his way back to win he went out and took the game to Fergal,Ronnie and Mark.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Tubberlad

Witz78 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:And how many would Ronnie have won if Paul Hunter hadn't have died when he did? I often wonder that.


lets cut the chase here and do away with all the sentimental stuff, yeh it was a tragedy what happened to Paul but i wont let that cloud my thoughts.

He was lucky to win 3 and could and should have lost all 3.

Had he continued playing i doubt he would have won anymore, hed done well to rack up a tally of 3 considering the deficeits in each final.

And the focus of his career should have switched to rankers and ultimately the Worlds in the future as thats the benchmark.

I admire your honesty, but I nonetheless totally disagree.

I think he was deserving of all three wins. You can't judge a match just by what happened early on, it's the full thing that counts. Overall, I actually think he was the better player in all three finals. In the 2004 decider, he hit FIVE centuries. That's a match winning performance in anyone's book. From 7-2 down he was actually totally in control, by far the better player for the last ten frames.

As for the Fergal O'Brien & Williams finals, I think he was marginally the better player in both those aswell. He hit three centuries on the spin against O'Brien from 7-3 down, and controlled the game from that margin behind.

I do agree though that his record in the World Championship was nothing special, but he had time to ammend that. His ranking tally by 2004 was three (I pick 2004 as from there on his career was virtually over). Three by 26 isn't too bad, and I think he could have won three or four more.

Ultimately we will never know.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby GJ

a player wins what he wisns

moaning about what a player deserves is a losers attitude

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Tubberlad

RUSSIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 2018 wrote:a player wins what he wisns

moaning about what a player deserves is a losers attitude

Very true. O'Sullivan was deserving of each of the four Masters he won:
He hammered Higgins in 1995 9-3
He was breathtaking in 2005 against Higgins 10-3
He was breathtaking in 2007 against Ding 10-3
He edged an excellent match against Selby in 2009, the better player ultimately.

Hendry beat him well in 1996. I didn't see the 1997 final, but losing from 8-4 up against Steve Davis means he probably should have won, but didn't, no complaints. He should have won the 2006 final, but didn't, no complaints. Selby marginally outplayed him in 2010 IMO. And Hunter was marginally the better player in 2004, Ronnie played wonderfully, but Hunter was better (5 centuries and a stunning evening session).

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Wildey

in 1997 he was young and seeing a streaker probably gave him a hard one and he just couldn't get down on the shot properly after that <laugh>

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Roland

Experience counted in the 1997 final. It's all well and good to say Ronnie should've won it against a past it Davis but this was Davis 13 years before he KO'd the defending champ in round 2 at the Crucible. Davis is the one who should have a gripe because he really should have won the Welsh final between the two of them a few years later.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:Experience counted in the 1997 final. It's all well and good to say Ronnie should've won it against a past it Davis but this was Davis 13 years before he KO'd the defending champ in round 2 at the Crucible. Davis is the one who should have a gripe because he really should have won the Welsh final between the two of them a few years later.


2004 wasnt it and 8-5 up <doh>

that ranking win woulda settled the whos the best "Hendry or Davis" debate once and for all if hed won a ranker aged 47.

As it is Jimmys Players Championship win in 2004 aged 42 might be a record in the "modern" modern era that takes some beating.

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Wildey

witz how old you are has sod all to do with it Doug Mountjoy won the UK at 46 does that make him better than Steve Davis <doh>

its in quality of play and on that basis hendry spanks the bucking lot

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby SnookerFan

wildJONESEYE wrote:in 1997 he was young and seeing a streaker probably gave him a hard one and he just couldn't get down on the shot properly after that <laugh>


He could've potted the balls with his sausage. What sort of genius is he?

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Monique

SnookerFan wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:in 1997 he was young and seeing a streaker probably gave him a hard one and he just couldn't get down on the shot properly after that <laugh>


He could've potted the balls with his willy. What sort of genius is he?


Don't tempt him! :scared:

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:in 1997 he was young and seeing a streaker probably gave him a hard one and he just couldn't get down on the shot properly after that <laugh>


He could've potted the balls with his willy. What sort of genius is he?


Don't tempt him! :scared:

rofl

Re: How many Masters should Ronnie have won?

Postby SnookerFan

Monique wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:in 1997 he was young and seeing a streaker probably gave him a hard one and he just couldn't get down on the shot properly after that <laugh>


He could've potted the balls with his willy. What sort of genius is he?


Don't tempt him! :scared:


It'd make Seifer happy.