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Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby vodkadiet

The 2011 Championship Snooker League starts on January 3rd. This will be the 4th time the event has taken place. The question I am asking though is, what is the point of this event?

There are a maximum of 960 frames possible in this event and all it produces at the end of it is just 1 player going forward to the Premier League for the 2011-12 season. The Premier League itself is not a particularly important event, so what does that make this qualifying tournament, just to get in it? It has no ranking points and it is played in front of nobody. Okay, it has some useful pocket money for players and some practice for real tournaments, but the event in itself is quite meaningless.

The fact that the winner of The Premier League this year, Ronnie O'Sullivan is playing, makes no sense, as he has automatically qualified for next year. I assume O'Sullivan is only playing anyway because it is played in his home county of Essex. Players like John Higgins, Neil Robertson, and Shaun Murphy will get invites to next season's Premier league so it matters not a jot if any of them win the event or not.

It is a lot of snooker for nothing in my opinion. 960 frames possible to get a winner of a very, very, mediocre event. The maximum number of frames possible at The Crucible this next year will be 705. This shows how disproportionate the amount of frames in The Championship League is.

If snooker is to have a Championship League let's have it having more meaning, like it has in Rugby Union or Cricket. Let's have ranking points and matches played in front of crowds at real venues. At present, it is 16 days of wastefulness.

Never has the term 'quality is better than quantity' been more appropriate.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby SnookerFan

vodkadiet wrote:The 2011 Championship Snooker League starts on January 3rd. This will be the 4th time the event has taken place. The question I am asking though is, what is the point of this event?


There isn't one. Next question.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Roland

It had its place a couple of years ago when there weren't any other tournaments - remember Carter and Perry reaching the Crucible semis one year purely because of the match practice factor from this Championship League. But now there are a load of PTCs and other events you have to ask what's the point of it now. Plus, the past winners aren't exactly what you would call box office ticket sellers for the Premier League proper.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

Well there aren't that many more events in the second half of the season. Just the German Masters (but the Malta Cup is gone) and the WS Shootout which isn't really a "proper" tournament. The PTC/EPTCs were all grouped in the first half that was really (too) cluttered in fact.
So it's still good match practise and paid one at that.
As for not being "box office" I think that Judd Trump appealed to many and he did reach the play-offs. Perry and Fu as well BTW and honestly both of them played very well during the league phase (Fu didn't last season, but he did this season after he qualified).

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby SnookerFan

Monique wrote:Well there aren't that many more events in the second half of the season. Just the German Masters (but the Malta Cup is gone) and the WS Shootout which isn't really a "proper" tournament. The PTC/EPTCs were all grouped in the first half that was really (too) cluttered in fact.
So it's still good match practise and paid one at that.
As for not being "box office" I think that Judd Trump appealed to many and he did reach the play-offs. Perry and Fu as well BTW and honestly both of them played very well during the league phase (Fu didn't last season, but he did this season after he qualified).


I don't mind a bit of Marco Fu action. Not a fan of Judd Trump though.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Wildey

i think the money used in this event could be better spent on a proper tournament £173,100 was payed out this year's event. its not as if it gives playing chances for lower ranked players

only 25 players out of 96 play in it with last seasons lowest rank player being Judd Trump at 30.

so why not play a invitational tournament ON TV consisting of 24 Players Top 16 On the official Ranking at a cut off point 4 top players on the PTC Order of Merit thats not in the top 16 and 4 wild cards.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby vodkadiet

wildJONESEYE wrote:i think the money used in this event could be better spent on a proper tournament £173,100 was payed out this year's event. its not as if it gives playing chances for lower ranked players

only 25 players out of 96 play in it with last seasons lowest rank player being Judd Trump at 30.

so why not play a invitational tournament ON TV consisting of 24 Players Top 16 On the official Ranking at a cut off point 4 top players on the PTC Order of Merit thats not in the top 16 and 4 wild cards.


I agree. This Championship League is just like watching 2 guys practising in their living room before the Christmas dinner is served by the butler!

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

The thing is this money does not come from WSA wallet, it's a matchroom event and they do what they see fit and match their own interests. So not a chance in hell they will be bothered with low ranked players and they care more with box office than rankings.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:The thing is this money does not come from WSA wallet, it's a matchroom event and they do what they see fit and match their own interests. So not a chance in hell they will be bothered with low ranked players and they care more with box office than rankings.

box office :?

theres nobody there

in truth i dont care who runs it the fact is its pointless...ive never really agreed with it and even less now.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

wildJONESEYE wrote:
Monique wrote:The thing is this money does not come from WSA wallet, it's a matchroom event and they do what they see fit and match their own interests. So not a chance in hell they will be bothered with low ranked players and they care more with box office than rankings.

box office :?

theres nobody there

in truth i dont care who runs it the fact is its pointless...ive never really agreed with it and even less now.


It's streamed over Internet, so contrary to PTCs you can watch it if you want. It's not more pointless than was the Masters qualifying event and if anything it's fairer that giving Jimmy an zillionth wild card.
Also you should finally accept that no sport can live if it has no audience. In many ways box office is more important for the development of the sport than rankings.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Wildey

its shown on betting sites therefore the emphasis is on betting

with that in mind 7 players play group 1 if a player reaches the final of group 1 looses he then plays in group 2 etc etc BUT Punters are betting on it expecting to put their all in to it but players can make more cash out of losing than winning group 1

by winning group 1 Maguire received less cash than Robbo did playing in 4 groups despite maguire winning 1 group and runner up in the champions group.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:its shown on betting sites therefore the emphasis is on betting

with that in mind 7 players play group 1 if a player reaches the final of group 1 looses he then plays in group 2 etc etc BUT Punters are betting on it expecting to put their all in to it but players can make more cash out of losing than winning group 1

by winning group 1 Maguire received less cash than Robbo did playing in 4 groups despite maguire winning 1 group and runner up in the champions group.


Players would still rather win their group and secure their place in the champions group with only 2 days effort required. Whilst the money is useful its not significant to these guys and would certainly not result in any of them deciding to lose a final or semi final to ensure they returned back to the next group instead.

Ultimately the players are in this event to get a direct entry to the Premier League.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

Wild the event has been on three years and precisely as it is shown on betting sites and certainly encouraging betting in play, you can also be certain it's very closely monitored. Bookies will see to that. In three years it has produced winners like Joe Perry and Marco Fu who both played very well in the event when they qualified for it but hardly are the kind of winners matchroom was dreaming about probably (box office factor). So no, I don't think it's too open to corruption.
And if you think players are not wanting to play in PL, and wanting it badly, you are totally deluded.
The only one who enters it purely for match practice is probably the defending champion.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:its shown on betting sites therefore the emphasis is on betting

with that in mind 7 players play group 1 if a player reaches the final of group 1 looses he then plays in group 2 etc etc BUT Punters are betting on it expecting to put their all in to it but players can make more cash out of losing than winning group 1

by winning group 1 Maguire received less cash than Robbo did playing in 4 groups despite maguire winning 1 group and runner up in the champions group.


Players would still rather win their group and secure their place in the champions group with only 2 days effort required. Whilst the money is useful its not significant to these guys and would certainly not result in any of them deciding to lose a final or semi final to ensure they returned back to the next group instead.

Ultimately the players are in this event to get a direct entry to the Premier League.



i think players that wins goes through to group 2 etc

and by some players reaction to the PTC do you think they are that bothered in the PL Spot

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

Yes they are. It's an elite tournament, it's big money, it's regular match play against the best in front of packed houses and on television (and hence it's sponsors money to make it even better).
They are certainly more bothered by PL than PTC, much more.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Witz78

By discrediting events like the Championship League, PTC, World Open, Premier League etc Wild with comments like " are players really bothered about them?" your basically saying whats the point of Hearn expanding the tour when the only events that will matter really to you are the Masters, UK and Worlds.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:By discrediting events like the Championship League, PTC, World Open, Premier League etc Wild with comments like " are players really bothered about them?" your basically saying whats the point of Hearn expanding the tour when the only events that will matter really to you are the Masters, UK and Worlds.

no im saying how pathetic the CL Format is and in need of a re think ....its a bore fest of never ending matches theres better ways to use cash for snooker.

ive never liked it full stop waste of time ive always thought of it but this season it seemed pointless in the extream why not cancel it and spread the PTC over the season better. theres so much better things that can be done with the dates this white elephant takes up.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

Next season the PTC will be better spread and there will be no constraint regarding the number of events to attend or which one. The order of merit will be purely based on money list. So that will be adressed.
I don't know why you are so cross about the CL. You don't want to watch it, don't, that's all. And I'm pretty sure that if Hendry won it you would be over the moon as this is probably his only chance to play in PL next season and I can assure you he'd love that.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Wildey

monique

theres better things there can be done extend the PTC to 15 events even.

i just dont see any point at all in it now yes last few years as practice but not now.

btw i think its a very poor decision regarding qualifying criteria for the PTC Finals next year. i do not know how that will work if players can rent a house in sheffield and not bother to get on a aeroplane.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

I think it's a decision dictated by experience. Ding and Higgins miss out because they didn't play in enough events. Ronnie would probably have made the effort to play in one more if that had been enough to qualify but couldn't afford to go to as many events as required under the current circumstances. As a result there is a rather depleted field in the Grand Final despite the fact that some big names like Murphy and Selby play in it. Box office again.
I have heard with my own ears Neil Robertson say it was too much traveling, too much being away from home, too much costs for the money to be earned and not enough ranking points to be bothered about, especially for those, like him, competing in PL ... Maybe if he had known that winning just one would get him to the final he would have tried nonetheless.
And without naming the names there were some who knowing they had qualified couldn't clearly be bothered to try properly in the last set of events ... those precisely that were played in front of an audience and in Europe. Shame.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Witz78

Whilst i partially agree about the PTC finals criteria next season being based purely on money won and not requring a minimum number of events entered, i still feel the players should enter as many events as they can since they are professional players and moaned about the limited playing opportunities for years, now they have them so why complain?? And also they owe it to the fans and the sport in general to promote it in new countries etc.

I do think however that there should be no need for behind closed doors PTC events in the UK, if there are UK events then take them to places in the UK that have been starved of snooker for years. The events at the Academy are pointless as far as im concerned, especially if not streamed there and the only purpose they serve are to gain some use out of the expensive Academy.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Wildey

players has to make effort full stop.

Higgins got punished and Ding Had family time.

i think in britain there shouldn't be any criteria but in other countries you got to put in a minimum clause of 4 Events out of 6 but during the proper season.

Ding Missed out because 4 PTC was during the "SUMMER"

also players who pull out of events gets 1000 Ranking Points deducted.

if you dont want to play Dont Enter.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby PLtheRef

Wild Now you mention the idea of another tournament - your suggestion is a sound one. Its been good to see a style of event where players are competing over a short format. - The CL is only replicated in one other sport - which has as its promoter Mr Hearn. Its been enjoyable - I would say that this is one of the reasons why we didnt get as many unexpected results in the World open, as players have grown more used to playing best of 5 frame matches. Now with the EPTC circuit the season has 13 more events which could be spaced out to be one a fortnight or so with the finals precluding the World Championship. One thing I remember speaking to a top player about this when at the Crucible this year was that he said that it was so easy to make extra money - especially if you're guaranteed a place in the PL - a few good runs to Semis - keeping yourself involved allows you to continue earning money timing your run to win the final group means you can get yourself in the finals too. Obviously you may fail to advance but you have the PL place as a backup.

This was set up as a season filler and I'm not convinced there's a need for it anymore

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

wildJONESEYE wrote:players has to make effort full stop.

Higgins got punished and Ding Had family time.

i think in britain there shouldn't be any criteria but in other countries you got to put in a minimum clause of 4 Events out of 6 but during the proper season.

Ding Missed out because 4 PTC was during the "SUMMER"

also players who pull out of events gets 1000 Ranking Points deducted.

if you dont want to play Dont Enter.


That I'm sorry to say is just bitterness and idiotic. Why have points deducted? Players have to enter far too long beforehand, they can't possibly foresee all possible circumstances. Not to mention that by entering they contribute to cover the expenses as they pay their entry fees.
Ronnie also had family time and with more reasons for that than Ding who's mother lives in Britain with him when he is there. It was Ding's choice. Simply. I don't blame him, but it was his choice, with no constrainsts, and no visa problems neither.
As for Higgins, he was punished, yes, and rightly so. Maybe event too leniently actually. A six months ban largely over the "dead" part of the season ...

Instead of making constraining rules like that, WSA should make EPTC more attractive: give them more ranking points, pay better (this season players were earning less for EPTCs than for PTCS while most of them obviously had more costs to expose to participate - that's just not logical)

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Witz78

Monique wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:players has to make effort full stop.

Higgins got punished and Ding Had family time.

i think in britain there shouldn't be any criteria but in other countries you got to put in a minimum clause of 4 Events out of 6 but during the proper season.

Ding Missed out because 4 PTC was during the "SUMMER"

also players who pull out of events gets 1000 Ranking Points deducted.

if you dont want to play Dont Enter.


That I'm sorry to say is just bitterness and idiotic. Why have points deducted? Players have to enter far too long beforehand, they can't possibly foresee all possible circumstances. Not to mention that by entering they contribute to cover the expenses as they pay their entry fees.
Ronnie also had family time and with more reasons for that than Ding who's mother lives in Britain with him when he is there. It was Ding's choice. Simply. I don't blame him, but it was his choice, with no constrainsts, and no visa problems neither.
As for Higgins, he was punished, yes, and rightly so. Maybe event too leniently actually. A six months ban largely over the "dead" part of the season ...

Instead of making constraining rules like that, WSA should make EPTC more attractive: give them more ranking points, pay better (this season players were earning less for EPTCs than for PTCS while most of them obviously had more costs to expose to participate - that's just not logical)


i think the 2,000 points available per PTC was about right to be honest, anymore and the lesser ranking events would be almost insignificant. Between the 12 PTCs and the Finals theres 27,000 potential points for players to chase. Those who have committed to the PTC events and played well in them (Trump, McGill, Lisowski etc) will reap the benefits through the extra ranking points they have gained in them compared to others and this will show through eventually and reward them with higher rankings and less qualifying games and also more guaranteed prize money, so the rewards the PTC offers players isnt just limited to what the PTC gives them.

Re: Championship Snooker League. What is the point?

Postby Monique

I agree Witz and I think that was the original design goal of PTCs/EPTCs: to give young and lower ranked players more opportunities. In a way BH tried to have the cake and eat it. Have the top boys compete in it with the possible reward of the Grand Final while still giving the others an opportunity window. It did not work as expected, the top boys, as a majority didn't go for it as he hoped for. That's why the rules are changed.