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Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby badtemperedcyril

This was before the days of televised snooker and big money sponsors, so the players earnings in a world championship came mostly from a share of the gate. Therefore, it was necessary for a match to last 4 or 5 days. There are far to many players now in any case. There were only four professionals in Britain in the 60’s up until 1968 - Pulman, Davis, Rex Williams and Jackie Rea. Technically Kingsley Kennerley still was but he’d more or less packed up until he got roped in to make the numbers up in the inaugural Pot Black.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby Running side

In my opinion the crucible is still fine, of course there are bigger venues, but as been experienced by anyone whose attended it has a very special atmosphere. Playing in a 5k auditorium loses that closeness to the players and table, I wouldn't want to be sat 25 yards away.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby lhpirnie

Running side wrote:In my opinion the crucible is still fine, of course there are bigger venues, but as been experienced by anyone whose attended it has a very special atmosphere. Playing in a 5k auditorium loses that closeness to the players and table, I wouldn't want to be sat 25 yards away.

It's certainly too small for the 2-table set-up: some players need to abandon their pre-shot routine. But the table conditions are usually the worst of any venue, which is a decisive factor for me. I just think the facilities are inadequate for a major sporting event in the 21st century. But don't worry, nobody's going to dare suggest it be moved!

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby Running side

Fair point, why are table conditions poor? Must be same fitters and best materials available. Could it be closeness of crowd causing humidity problems. I actually used to install carpet under tables from 78 to 98 and the first 5years the policy was to reuse existing carpet, this resulting in lots of dust and fibers floating around. Since then a more scientific approach was taken, reducing bad contacts/kicks.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby SnookerFan

badtemperedcyril wrote:Until last year i’d been to the Crucible every year since 1999. It’s such a special place and creates an atmosphere like no other. It’s not just inside the Crucible either, the whole city has a buzz about it when the snookers on. Can’t wait to go back.


:goodpost:

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby lhpirnie

Running side wrote:Fair point, why are table conditions poor? Must be same fitters and best materials available. Could it be closeness of crowd causing humidity problems. I actually used to install carpet under tables from 78 to 98 and the first 5years the policy was to reuse existing carpet, this resulting in lots of dust and fibers floating around. Since then a more scientific approach was taken, reducing bad contacts/kicks.

Yes, I'm not criticising Pete Godwin at all - he's one of the unsung heroes of snooker. But some venues are a nightmare. The Crucible has major temperature issues, and air-conditioning. There are also some structural issues under the floor. The closeness of the crowd is a problem, as you say.


But I've made my views clear on this forum before, probably more than once.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby badtemperedcyril

1976 EMBASSY WORLD PROFESSIONAL SNOOKER CHAMPIONSHIP

FINAL

Wythenshawe Forum, Manchester
20th – 23rd April, 1976

RAY REARDON (Wales) 27-16 ALEX HIGGINS (Northern Ireland)

Frame scores: -

Session 1 42-63; 11-62; 66(30)-59(31); 12-85(59); 58(33)-17; 6-118(87). Higgins 4-2
Session 2 97(70)-19; 93(58)-32; 101(44,45)-34; 64-40(35); 94(83)-16; 32(31)-68(60); 61(30)-30. Reardon 8-5
Session 3 14-95(79); 17-72(38); 19-58(46); 61-19; 20-95(80); 26-47. Higgins 10-9
Session 4 68-41; 32-99; 79-44; 73-35; 102(58)-5; 70-33; 96-21. Reardon 15-11
Session 5 32-61; 7-77(63); 72(47)-68(30); 64-44; 64-62(51); 70(66)-48(32). Reardon 19-13
Session 6 71-10; 62(61)-32; 18-90(82); 53-44; 53-8; 16-56; 58-20. Reardon 24-15
Session 7 77-59(34); 32-75; 82(31,35)-36; 62-25. Reardon 27-16

Referee: Bill Timms (frames 1 to 32), John Williams (frames 33 to 43).

Television: Broadcasts by BBC.

First prize: £6,000.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby badtemperedcyril

Muller wrote:Thanks Cyril - scores really indicate the cautious game Reardon employed in this match.

I think Alex in those days was so open, Reardon could afford to leave him ‘tempters’ knowing the odds were stacked heavily in his favour. Although naturally an attacking player, Ray knew he had no need to take too many risks in that match. Different situation in 82 when Alex was a very different animal, quite able to take Reardon on in the safety department. In fact, it was Reardon who was going for the risky, even reckless, shots.
The table and surroundings in 76 were also rubbish. Reardon complained about the cushions, the balls, the referee, the television lights, the audience (people getting up randomly to visit the bar!)… a far cry from the near perfect conditions now.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby badtemperedcyril

Muller wrote:Yes, it seems conditions were awful. Wondering if you have seen on YT there is some footage from the Champion of Champions in 1978 between the two (has overhead camera!) and the table is simply dreadful.

Yes I have. Tight pockets. That was actually the same set at Wembley Conference Centre where they played the 1979 B&M Masters a few weeks later. If you compare the footage to that CoC you can see even the join in the carpet is the same.

The worst tables, from what they say, were the Brunswick which had rounded cushion rails so cueing from the cusion was horrible. It was certainly a different game in the 70's. Most of the events were played in smoke filled working mens clubs and the like. Good old days! <laugh>

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby BennyOnTheLoose

badtemperedcyril wrote:By the way, one think I did find was, as was customary at that time, the three remaining "dead" frames were played after Reardon had reached his winning 37-33 lead. Final score: 38-35


Kobylecky's book has 38-35 for the score after dead frames for the April 1970 final, but the B&SCC Handbook 1970/71 and the Park Drive Year Book both have 39-34. Does anyone know if there were any newspapers at the time that might have carried details of frame scores? If so I can check copies in the British Library. (There are some papers digitised in the British Newspaper Archive, but none that I can find that have all the scores for the concluding sessions.)

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby Empire State Human

Muller wrote:Cyril - do you have the 1977 and 1978 final scores form SS?

I'm not Cyril, but I took some photos of the relevant pages. The scores are worth cross-checking against other sources because SS does slip up occasionally.


1977
https://i.imgur.com/BCNLCHp.jpg

1978
https://i.imgur.com/NnSsd1u.jpg

I've put them behind the links as they are quite large.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby ToneJ

Like a few on here I've been researching missing frame scores from my collection of snooker magazines and old newspapers on FindMyPast.

I've got load of gaps but the matches that are really frustrating me are the following so if anyone can help it would be most appreciated.

Tony

1965 WORLD PROFESSIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP aka WORLD SERIES
J. Pulman 25-20 R. Williams (matches) [25-22]
South Africa. 30 Sep-Dec
Match 1: JP [1-0] 30 Sep. Johannesburg
Match 2: JP [2-0]
Match 3: JP [3-0]
Match 8: [5-3] 15 Oct. Johannesburg
Match 14: [9-5] 5 Nov.
Match 20: [11-9] 10 Nov.
Match 21: 77-33, 116-8, 69-8, 66-21. 4-0. [12-9] 11 Nov. Port Elizabeth
Match 24: 3-4. [13-11] 15 Nov. East London. RW 142 record break
Match 29. 3-4. [16-13] 22 Nov. Kimberley.
Match 45: 5-2. [25-20 winning lead] 14 Dec. Cape Town. 4 matches remaining.
Match 46: RW. [25-21]
Match 47: RW. [25-22]
51 best of 7 matches (later changed to 49). £5,000 HB bonus for 140+ break.

1965 WORLD PROFESSIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP
J. Pulman beat F. Van Rensburg (South Africa) 39-12
Various venues, South Africa. Dec
Last edited by ToneJ on 27 Mar 2022, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby badtemperedcyril

Though this period was the darkest in championship history, there is nonetheless something intriguing about finding out about them. Unfortunately, the South African matches received very little press coverage or public support due to a highly controversial decision by the SA association to insist on Freddie van Rensburg being the nominated challenger to face Pulman, despite the fact that he’d rather carelessly lost his South African professional title to a 24-year old left-handed named Pierre Mans. Apparently he was drunk against Mans but the association still regarded him as Number One having held the title for twenty years. The public disapproved of their decision and largely boycotted the match.

The marathon series between Pulman and Williams was never intended to be for the world title at all. In fact it was never mentioned until after they’d set sail! Williams had challenged Pulman less than a year previously and lost by the fairly hefty margin of 37-21, so wasn’t really entitled to challenge again so soon.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby badtemperedcyril

1937 World Professional Snooker Championship
FINAL

15th – 20th March, 1937
Thurston’s Hall, Leicester Square, London.

JOE DAVIS (England) 32-29 HORACE LINDRUM (Australia)

Session Frame Scores : -
Session 1 109(38,50)-12, 21-81, 76(53)-45, 30-95(81), 73-21. Davis 3-2
Session 2 42-78, 70-49, 22-89(75), 44-30, 83-37. Level 5-5
Session 3 58-65(30)(re-spotted black), 24-89, 95(44,41)-25, 37-88(70), 72(33)-37. Lindrum 8-7
Session 4 36-80(56), 98-22, 40(32)-82(73), 30-80(55), 79-53. Lindrum 11-9
Session 5 16-114(80) 19-74(32), 93(51)-37,14-105(56), 78-15. Lindrum 14-11
Session 6 66-70(31), 45-54, 58-50, 13-107(46,47), 66(41)-19. Lindrum 17-13
Session 7 103(103)-33, 98(66)-23, 21-104(93), 92(38)-36, 110(48,34)-23. Lindrum 18-17
Session 8 82-46, 29-95(58), 56-92(36), 128(32,45,41)-0, 34-51. Lindrum 21-19
Session 9 59(37)-46, 56(34)-33, 68(46)-61(47), 92(33,30)-3, 8-80(56). Davis 23-22
Session 10 120(47)-1, 71(30)-56(32), 81(32)-34, 107(93)-15, 46-83(30,33). Davis 27-23
Session 11 66-52(37), 44(40)-73, 66-55(33), 25-78, 24-101(43,58). Davis 29-26
Session 12 27-61, 63-65(53), 63-42, *72-41, 38-83(38), 87(62)-27. Davis 32-29

*Davis reached a 31-28 winning lead in the 59th frame.

Referee: Charlie Chambers.

Re: Is anyone interested in old World Championship scores?

Postby badtemperedcyril

1933 World Professional Snooker Championship
FINAL

12th – 17th June, 1933
Joe Davis Billiard Saloon, Vicar Lane, Chesterfield

JOE DAVIS (Chesterfield) 25-18 WILLIE SMITH (Darlington)

Frame Scores:
Session 1 52-34; 46-44; 103(40)-23; 81(36)-31. Davis 4-0
Session 2 25-72; 43-69; 68(32)-22; 61-71. Davis 5-3
Session 3 13-45; 38-53; 33-49; 21-63. Smith 5-7
Session 4 78-19; 70(30)-15; 116(38,53)-15; 68-31; 29-66; 66-22. Davis 10-8
Session 5 32-82; 81-10; 30-62; 69(40)-33; 35-76(36). Davis 12-11
Session 6 45-57; 90-25; 86-33; 25-56; 49-57; 86(39,32)-25. Davis 15-14
Session 7 87(38)-14; 56-66(38); 66(32)-46; 21-72; 74-61. Davis 18-16
Session 8 79(32)-31; 54-75; 89(55)-14; 72(42)-18; 79-11. Davis 22-17
Session 9 105(72)-5; 66-54; 27-58; 90(49)-16. Davis 25-18

Referee: Mr A. Marshall.

The Championship trophy was presented by the Mayor of Chesterfield, Councillor Arthur W. Swale.


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