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Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Womble

chengdufan wrote:
Womble wrote:
chengdufan wrote:There's also the chance all the Chinese players will be exonerated and reinstated tomorrow.
"Turns out it was one big joke"

chengdufan. From your posts it is obvious that you are either Chinese, or at least live in China. Now, please don't think this is racist, because I honestly don't mean it that way. But, from your point of view, what do you think is going on with all the Chinese players being suspended. I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were some kinds of threats involved, at least from what was said about Liang Wenbo. Do you have any ideas? Personally, I hope they are not too hard on them. I really wouldn't like to lose players like Yan and Zhao from the circuit. I really like watching them. :-)

I have no idea, but I gave my best guess in speculation on the thread about the suspensions.

OK. Thanks. I will have a look there.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Womble

lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:Personally, I hope they are not too hard on them. I really wouldn't like to lose players like Yan and Zhao from the circuit. I really like watching them. :-)

The WPBSA probably won't have much choice but to be harsh on them. They are bound by precedent and some strong opinions, particularly from the betting community and some influential players. It's possible that one of the young players might actually be cleared, but the other 8 will be relegated, either in 2023 or in 2024.

Sorry. I don't completely understand. What does 'relegated' mean in that context? Will they lose all their ranking points? If they do, that will take some clawing back from. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby lhpirnie

Womble wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:Personally, I hope they are not too hard on them. I really wouldn't like to lose players like Yan and Zhao from the circuit. I really like watching them. :-)

The WPBSA probably won't have much choice but to be harsh on them. They are bound by precedent and some strong opinions, particularly from the betting community and some influential players. It's possible that one of the young players might actually be cleared, but the other 8 will be relegated, either in 2023 or in 2024.

Sorry. I don't completely understand. What does 'relegated' mean in that context? Will they lose all their ranking points? If they do, that will take some clawing back from. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

If you look at the ranking lists, you will see that 5 currently suspended players will finish the season outside the top-64, which means the will lose their tour card for next season, i.e be 'relegated'. The other 4 (plus Mark King) will likely remain on the list until 2024, when they will be relegated.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:Personally, I hope they are not too hard on them. I really wouldn't like to lose players like Yan and Zhao from the circuit. I really like watching them. :-)

The WPBSA probably won't have much choice but to be harsh on them. They are bound by precedent and some strong opinions, particularly from the betting community and some influential players. It's possible that one of the young players might actually be cleared, but the other 8 will be relegated, either in 2023 or in 2024.

I think they’d be more bound by the fact that the players broke the rules than by “some strong opinions”!

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:Personally, I hope they are not too hard on them. I really wouldn't like to lose players like Yan and Zhao from the circuit. I really like watching them. :-)

The WPBSA probably won't have much choice but to be harsh on them. They are bound by precedent and some strong opinions, particularly from the betting community and some influential players. It's possible that one of the young players might actually be cleared, but the other 8 will be relegated, either in 2023 or in 2024.

I think they’d be more bound by the fact that the players broke the rules than by “some strong opinions”!

Yes indeed. But the lengths of the bans have a discretionary element.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Womble

lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:Personally, I hope they are not too hard on them. I really wouldn't like to lose players like Yan and Zhao from the circuit. I really like watching them. :-)

The WPBSA probably won't have much choice but to be harsh on them. They are bound by precedent and some strong opinions, particularly from the betting community and some influential players. It's possible that one of the young players might actually be cleared, but the other 8 will be relegated, either in 2023 or in 2024.

Sorry. I don't completely understand. What does 'relegated' mean in that context? Will they lose all their ranking points? If they do, that will take some clawing back from. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

If you look at the ranking lists, you will see that 5 currently suspended players will finish the season outside the top-64, which means the will lose their tour card for next season, i.e be 'relegated'. The other 4 (plus Mark King) will likely remain on the list until 2024, when they will be relegated.

I'm sorry, but I'm not really up to speed on this kind of thing. Does it mean that, if convicted, Yan Bingtao and Zhao Xintong might be entering Q School next season? If that's true. What a comedown. Wow.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby D4P

Juddernaut88 wrote:
D4P wrote:
Juddernaut88 wrote:So with Judd Trump and Neil Robertson being number 4 and 5 in the world rankings this means they will be scheduled to play each other in the Quarter finals of the World championship if both players make it that far :-(


Yep, with Ronnie in their Semi-Final.


FFS Judd is screwed then. Knowing my luck he will probably get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round anyway though.


Smurph could move into the #5 seed by making it to the TC final and could move into the #4 seed by winning the TC, and Kyren could move into #5 by winning the TC.

So, there's a decent chance that Judd and Smurph will be in the same QF, rather than Judd and Neil...

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby SteveJJ

Womble wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
Womble wrote:Personally, I hope they are not too hard on them. I really wouldn't like to lose players like Yan and Zhao from the circuit. I really like watching them. :-)

The WPBSA probably won't have much choice but to be harsh on them. They are bound by precedent and some strong opinions, particularly from the betting community and some influential players. It's possible that one of the young players might actually be cleared, but the other 8 will be relegated, either in 2023 or in 2024.

Sorry. I don't completely understand. What does 'relegated' mean in that context? Will they lose all their ranking points? If they do, that will take some clawing back from. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

If you look at the ranking lists, you will see that 5 currently suspended players will finish the season outside the top-64, which means the will lose their tour card for next season, i.e be 'relegated'. The other 4 (plus Mark King) will likely remain on the list until 2024, when they will be relegated.

I'm sorry, but I'm not really up to speed on this kind of thing. Does it mean that, if convicted, Yan Bingtao and Zhao Xintong might be entering Q School next season? If that's true. What a comedown. Wow.


As and when they fall off tour they would then either have to qualify via q school, UK or Asian version, World Amateur championship or Chinese domestic ranking places.

They will still theoretically be tour players next season even if banned for the entirety, unless in the unlikely event of lifetime bans.

They did not earn enough before the bans to remain on tour beyond next season if they are unable to play at all next season.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Prop

The_Abbott wrote:
D4P wrote:The top 3 seeds are set:

1 = Ronnie
2 = Selby
3 = Allen


Could be a Ronnie V Selby final grudge match


:shock:

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby gninnur karona

D4P wrote:The top 3 seeds are set:

1 = Ronnie
2 = Selby
3 = Allen


Following Allister Carter's loss yesterday Mark Williams is confirmed as number 8 seed.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby D4P

Updated seeding:

1: Ronnie
2: Selby
3: Allen
4:
5:
6:
7:
8: Williams
9: Brecel
10: Higgins
11: Hogan
12: Lisowski
13: Milkins
14: Bingham
15: G. Wilson
16: Decent

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Iranu

D4P wrote:
Iranu wrote:You’ve missed Ryan Day.


Has he qualified yet?

An update please, Dan?

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Womble

Prop wrote:2 weeks…


Interesting qualifiers first, though. Judgement day, etc. I like those. :-D

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby roy142857

Womble wrote:I'm assuming the WC seedings must be sorted out by now. Is there a list anywhere yet? :chin:


I think with Kyren Wilson and Shaun Murphy left in the Tour Championship, either can move up the rankings a couple of spots by taking the £150,000 winner's prize and therefore change the World Championship seedings.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Womble

roy142857 wrote:
Womble wrote:I'm assuming the WC seedings must be sorted out by now. Is there a list anywhere yet? :chin:


I think with Kyren Wilson and Shaun Murphy left in the Tour Championship, either can move up the rankings a couple of spots by taking the £150,000 winner's prize and therefore change the World Championship seedings.

Thanks. :-)

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby roy142857

Womble wrote:
Prop wrote:2 weeks…


Interesting qualifiers first, though. Judgement day, etc. I like those. :-D


'Judgement Day' is good, before that likely a fair few matches deciding whether players stay on the Tour or have to head for Q School. And whether a couple of suspended players potentially keep Tour cards.

I did see if Oliver Lines, Dominic Dale, David Grace and Zhang Anda win their opening matches (against lower ranked players), they'll push suspended players Mark King and Lu Ning down to the last two spots for getting back on tour, but the next two players lower than Zhang Anda unless I've misunderstood have to win a couple of matches, one against a higher ranked opponent, to get past Mark King and Lu Ning (that's Hammad Miah and Mark Joyce). Xu Si and Stuart Carrington have to reach The Crucible to get past the suspended players but need a fair bit less to get into Top 64 if players above them lose early.

Lines is especially vulnerable if he loses his opening match - he's way down on the one year list so won't get back on the Tour by being one of the top four on the one year list who haven't made the Top 64, and I think Zhang Anda very vulnerable too, Dale and Grace a little less so. Andy Hicks and Wu Yize are almost safe, just vulnerable if they lose opening matches and lots of players below them have deep runs.

Looks like non Tour player Daniel Wells claims a tour card the hard way (by accumulating enough wins across the season) unless major runs by players behind him on the one year list, but he'll want to win opening match against Himanshu Jain to get closer to making that reality. Jimmy White is a bit behind Wells but probably no risk of not being offered a card if other players overtake him.

I think a possible battle for the last two (maybe three) 'best one year list' spots ... Hammad Miah and Xu Si in those positions now but might reach the Top 64 with an opening win (freeing up a space or two) ... or be overtaken following an opening loss, with Mark Joyce and Stuart Carrington possible beneficiaries and it's probably the only route back on tour bar reaching The Crucible for Ian Burns and Louis Heathcote, who very much need enough other players to slip up. A few other players could claim a spot with a mass of the previously mentioned players losing opening matches and a deep run themselves (Fraser Patrick, Steven Hallworth, Marco Fu, Ross Muir, Mitchell Mann, Mark Davis, Alexander Ursenbacher) - but fairly improbable.

I find it's quite good to be aware of these 'wider' issues when players are in qualifying matches, it can for certain account for either nervous play or determined attitudes.

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby roy142857

D4P wrote:
Iranu wrote:You’ve missed Ryan Day.


Has he qualified yet?


Sad to say he missed out and has to qualify as will be 17th amongst unsuspended players. Seems cruel after such a strong season, but can't suddenly allow 17 players to qualify directly to The Crucible!

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Prop

roy142857 wrote:
Womble wrote:
Prop wrote:2 weeks…


Interesting qualifiers first, though. Judgement day, etc. I like those. :-D


'Judgement Day' is good, before that likely a fair few matches deciding whether players stay on the Tour or have to head for Q School. And whether a couple of suspended players potentially keep Tour cards.

I did see if Oliver Lines, Dominic Dale, David Grace and Zhang Anda win their opening matches (against lower ranked players), they'll push suspended players Mark King and Lu Ning down to the last two spots for getting back on tour, but the next two players lower than Zhang Anda unless I've misunderstood have to win a couple of matches, one against a higher ranked opponent, to get past Mark King and Lu Ning (that's Hammad Miah and Mark Joyce). Xu Si and Stuart Carrington have to reach The Crucible to get past the suspended players but need a fair bit less to get into Top 64 if players above them lose early.

Lines is especially vulnerable if he loses his opening match - he's way down on the one year list so won't get back on the Tour by being one of the top four on the one year list who haven't made the Top 64, and I think Zhang Anda very vulnerable too, Dale and Grace a little less so. Andy Hicks and Wu Yize are almost safe, just vulnerable if they lose opening matches and lots of players below them have deep runs.

Looks like non Tour player Daniel Wells claims a tour card the hard way (by accumulating enough wins across the season) unless major runs by players behind him on the one year list, but he'll want to win opening match against Himanshu Jain to get closer to making that reality. Jimmy White is a bit behind Wells but probably no risk of not being offered a card if other players overtake him.

I think a possible battle for the last two (maybe three) 'best one year list' spots ... Hammad Miah and Xu Si in those positions now but might reach the Top 64 with an opening win (freeing up a space or two) ... or be overtaken following an opening loss, with Mark Joyce and Stuart Carrington possible beneficiaries and it's probably the only route back on tour bar reaching The Crucible for Ian Burns and Louis Heathcote, who very much need enough other players to slip up. A few other players could claim a spot with a mass of the previously mentioned players losing opening matches and a deep run themselves (Fraser Patrick, Steven Hallworth, Marco Fu, Ross Muir, Mitchell Mann, Mark Davis, Alexander Ursenbacher) - but fairly improbable.

I find it's quite good to be aware of these 'wider' issues when players are in qualifying matches, it can for certain account for either nervous play or determined attitudes.


Good info, great post :hatoff:

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby SnookerEd25

roy142857 wrote:
D4P wrote:
Iranu wrote:You’ve missed Ryan Day.


Has he qualified yet?


Sad to say he missed out and has to qualify as will be 17th amongst unsuspended players. Seems cruel after such a strong season, but can't suddenly allow 17 players to qualify directly to The Crucible!


Which is why Ian McCulloch missed out in 2006, despite being World no. 16 !

Re: 2023 World Championship Countdown

Postby Womble

roy142857 wrote:
Womble wrote:
Prop wrote:2 weeks…


Interesting qualifiers first, though. Judgement day, etc. I like those. :-D


'Judgement Day' is good, before that likely a fair few matches deciding whether players stay on the Tour or have to head for Q School. And whether a couple of suspended players potentially keep Tour cards.

I did see if Oliver Lines, Dominic Dale, David Grace and Zhang Anda win their opening matches (against lower ranked players), they'll push suspended players Mark King and Lu Ning down to the last two spots for getting back on tour, but the next two players lower than Zhang Anda unless I've misunderstood have to win a couple of matches, one against a higher ranked opponent, to get past Mark King and Lu Ning (that's Hammad Miah and Mark Joyce). Xu Si and Stuart Carrington have to reach The Crucible to get past the suspended players but need a fair bit less to get into Top 64 if players above them lose early.

Lines is especially vulnerable if he loses his opening match - he's way down on the one year list so won't get back on the Tour by being one of the top four on the one year list who haven't made the Top 64, and I think Zhang Anda very vulnerable too, Dale and Grace a little less so. Andy Hicks and Wu Yize are almost safe, just vulnerable if they lose opening matches and lots of players below them have deep runs.

Looks like non Tour player Daniel Wells claims a tour card the hard way (by accumulating enough wins across the season) unless major runs by players behind him on the one year list, but he'll want to win opening match against Himanshu Jain to get closer to making that reality. Jimmy White is a bit behind Wells but probably no risk of not being offered a card if other players overtake him.

I think a possible battle for the last two (maybe three) 'best one year list' spots ... Hammad Miah and Xu Si in those positions now but might reach the Top 64 with an opening win (freeing up a space or two) ... or be overtaken following an opening loss, with Mark Joyce and Stuart Carrington possible beneficiaries and it's probably the only route back on tour bar reaching The Crucible for Ian Burns and Louis Heathcote, who very much need enough other players to slip up. A few other players could claim a spot with a mass of the previously mentioned players losing opening matches and a deep run themselves (Fraser Patrick, Steven Hallworth, Marco Fu, Ross Muir, Mitchell Mann, Mark Davis, Alexander Ursenbacher) - but fairly improbable.

I find it's quite good to be aware of these 'wider' issues when players are in qualifying matches, it can for certain account for either nervous play or determined attitudes.
:goodpost: Very interesting information. :bowdown: