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Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby Andre147

TheRocket wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
TheRocket wrote:I rate this World Championship win as his best ever by a mile.
I cant argue against the bare numbers and facts. He has scored better in this than hes ever done and you look at the opponents he had to beat. Beating Higgins and Trump in the semi and final tops it anyway.

Allen is also another opponent who has a good H2H against him. Gilbert was one of the toughest qualifiers. But he destroyed all of them. Which only he can. And he had the pressure of equalling Hendrys record.

And a documentary crew following him around.


True. Everything came together magnificently in this tournament. The only thing that can top this if anything is an 8th World title.


Dont think an 8th will top this being honest.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby Granite

94% pot success across 17 days is insane, no matter what you look at it and he was playing great safety. There was no rash shots or anything.

Crazy thing is Ronnie probably had an extra gear to go to if someone got closer to him but his scoring was just too consistent, the only blip was the 3rd session of the final.

This is definitely in his top 3 World Championships wins performance wise, by a mile.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby Johnny Bravo

Granite wrote:94% pot success across 17 days is insane, no matter what you look at it and he was playing great safety. There was no rash shots or anything.

Crazy thing is Ronnie probably had an extra gear to go to if someone got closer to him but his scoring was just too consistent, the only blip was the 3rd session of the final.

This is definitely in his top 3 World Championships wins performance wise, by a mile.

ROS is the clear GOAT !!! :winner:

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

Cloud Strife wrote:
masterdoctorgenius wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:Judd is the slight favourite IMO.


would be strange if it wasnt


All the betting companies have Ronnie as the favourite, which is slightly surprising. This is Judd’s era, after all.


Not surprising or strange, they go on current form and Ronnie definitely was the better player throughout the tournament, pre tournament he was 2nd to Robbo (Which suits him it seems, how often was Ronnie favourite and bowed out early, not least of all 2019) (2016 & 18 he lost to players he never lost to (Carter) or hadn't lost to in 9yrs was it? (Hawkins)). Trump's era means squat clearly he wasn't a big favourite going into this campaign and his 'era', to sound like Hendry when talking about Jimmy, what did he win? Yes 16ranking titles from 2018 to present but only 2 majors, he's not been a big hitter in the majors since becoming world champion, 2 finals including this one.

If going by recent matches then yes I'd make Judd favourite with Ronnie not beating him in 2 whole seasons but if by this 1 Ronnie won their sole match, if going by past crucible matches only have 2013 to go on, the sticky cue match went to Ronnie comfortably. So you can argue easily for either of them who is favourite. Ronnie's finals record is near perfect also plus he won only 2yrs ago vs Judd's 3, who hadn't made the 1 table till this year, going by their roads to the final Ronnie was not tested while Judd very nearly squandered a 7-1 1st session to Willo, showing he's fragile, definitely more so than Ronnie this tournament. Yes I know 2014 was similar, Ronnie had 2 sessions to spare pre final while Selby won 17-15 vs Robbo & still managed to win the final though clearly he was for the taking in day 1, which Ronnie didn't capitalise on enough.

But bookies do get things badly wrong, 2019 as mentioned & 2017 Trump was joint favourite with Selby yet lost round 1 to Rory McCleod.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

SnookerFan wrote:
Scooper wrote:Hendry’s commentary / punditry etc will be interesting. Will he be fuming if Ronnie takes the lead?


I legitimately don't think he cares that much. Or at least has accepted that it will happen at some point.


Of course he cares! Accepted yes he's said how he hopes Ronnie will retire soon as he's a legit threat to his record when Ronnie was on 5, am sure Hendry was delighted how 2019 went but paradoxically he kept tipping Ronnie to win, 2018 & 19 he was the clear favourite and when he finally did it Hendry said he's surprised it took Ronnie this long! I think it wasn't bitterness but more he knew long ago Ronnie's the GOAT, even better than himself so resigned himself to the fact his records would be taken by Ronnie just a matter of when.... Year after bad year of crucible visits was double edged, 1 hand gave Hendry hope Ronnie won't do it, he's getting old & frequently talks about retiring... Otherhand he's insecure about his record knowing how Ronnie can win out of nowhere, especially in 2013 so is like 'Just put me out of my misery and win it sooner than later!'

Him accepting a tour card in 2020 after Ronnie won his 6th title..... Coincidence? Lol would be funny if indeed it was so he can try to win an 8th world title to further secure his record haul. & yes I did think after Ronnie's 6th Hendry would be interesting in future crucible tournaments with the threat of any WC could be the last before his record is matched, like Dennis Taylor's as long as your opponent needs more than 1 frame you feel you got a chance... Granted title 6 was some years late! Hendry did call it though he said he thinks Ronnie will play a major part in this championship, Jimmy also tipped Ronnie to win it pre tournament. Both are wise!

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

McManusFan wrote:
mantorok wrote:
McManusFan wrote:
mantorok wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:I still say this is not Ronnie at his very best.


Doesn’t need to be, just be solid and rock hard match play.


How do the Ronnie watchers think it compares with 2020?


My view is he’s been more focused and clinical in the balls. He just hasn’t made that many silly mistakes.


Yeah he's barely missed an easy one since round 1.


He's been better overall than 2020 (scorelines speak for themself) except for round 1 where he beat Thepchaiyah in record time, funny the one lauded the fastest player on the circuit got annihilated in record time by the true fastest player. Everyother match in 2020 were close with Ronnie losing in all of them at some point, other than the final where he pulled away from Kyren but the first day was rough, as Hendry says that's the worst Ronnie's played in a world crown final.

Dancat I'm also from Hackney!

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

Scooper wrote:Most people don’t seem to like seeing Ronnie this far ahead, even fans


I'm one of them I wanted a comfortable win so not to get anxious but a respectable score (Depending on opponent, the less I like the opponent the more I want a trouncing!), not a thumping (US Trump different matter). Otherhand 2014 is still fresh in my memory so I didn't want to feel too sorry for Judd as he's very strong at comebacks, isn't beyond him to do a major comeback in the Crucible. So I slept fairly well, cautiously optimistic. (And then session 3 happened!)

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

Dan-cat wrote:You are from Hackney as in born and bred?! That would make you a rare beast.


Nah mate sorry lol, born Redbridge but been a Hackney kid since I was 6, end of 1989, Trump was a baby then. By some coincidence my sister's colleague in a former job happens to be the niece of the guy Ronnie O'Sullivan senior murdered, was quite something to see Ronnie Sr in the victory photo, the man Ronnie fans all know about to some extent, whose incarceration set back his son's career quite some years, denying us probably of a teenage world champion that would have tied/smashed 7 WT's far sooner.

McManusFan wrote:
Not trying to take anything (well not much) away from Ronnie’s victories - he isn't responsible for his opponenets poor play. If Judd had played like he did in the 2019 final, he would have won.


Was waiting for someone to say that, my response is yes Judd made 7 centuries that final, beating Ronnie's 6 in 2013 though centuries are deceptive, 67-70+ breaks are usually enough to win in 1 visit, he'd have a good chance of winning against anyone at that standard but he wasn't a world champion yet, it was his time he had the hunger and the 2011 defeat to the same man to rectify so was probably a freak performance he may never repeat, he's certainly not been a big hitter at TCs since for whatever reason though he certainly can come back, he has the talent and works hard. Hendry wasn't as invincible as his fans imply in his prime, Jimmy should have won 2/4 of their finals but he did win them as much as I wish he didn't, at least have had Jimmy win one of them...

SnookerFan wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:it's been plainly obvious that o'sullivan is the greatest player for years.


I agree.

But a lot of his fans have this inferiority complex of thinking it's not true unless he has literally every record.


You've got it so twisted! From my experience Ronnie fans proclaimed he's the GOAT with 5 WTs, me included, anything more was a bonus, it's the Hendry fans & naysayers who kept bringing up the 7 WT. I still wanted him to win more if anything to silence the doubters but I certainly was firm in my belief he was already GOAT at 5, if anything I liked him having 5 as that's a unique tally! His 2013 one should count as at least 2 under the circumstances! I never doubted he'd reach 6 as I said in 2018 and after he did get it in 2020, felt shame on those who did, way I saw it was start panicking if by 2024 he hadn't won 1 as that would be 10yrs since his last final and he almost always wins on leap years, 2016 being the trend bucker.
Yes it was a lean period since losing to Selby Crucible wise...

People still wanting to say Hendry is the GOAT still have a small case as his came in a 10 year span vs Ronnie's 22 but for Hendry that was followed by mediocrity for longer (Yes he made SFs and 1 more Final but the heavy defeats he took...), had Hendry or Davis returned soon after their dominance was over that would have preserved their GOAT statuses over Ronnie's insane longevity argument, like Joe Davis winning 15/15 world titles and then retiring so he remained unbeaten... Cheap exit yes.

For me I want Ronnie to make at least 1 more final so at least Hendry fans can't say he made more finals than Ronnie, winning an 8th or more is a bonus but it's all good from here...

LDS wrote:
Ronnie doesn't really need an 8th. The last gasp of Hendry fans is that Hendry made it to 9 finals compared to O'Sullivan's 8, and even then they'd have to ignore all the other results like semis, quarters, etc. So even if O'Sullivan never again won the title, even just a runner-up spot would have him far and away elevated above Hendry.

Obviously it would be nice if he had an 8th (well who wouldn't want an 8th :john: ), but I think it would actually be detrimental to him if his fans went about demanding it or promoting the idea too heavily. It would be nicer for the fans if they could just watch him play completely free of cares for once IMO.


Yes why it took him 20+yrs to achieve it and his 1st title taking the longest of all, title 6 also taking almost as long is undoubtedly the pressure of expectation, for someone with mental health problems, which Ronnie has been very candid about it's the worst obstacle & we've seen how he's collapsed, taken opponents too lightly or had too little interest in competing, when he's been the betting favourite he tends to fall very short in the crucible, 3 sore examples, 2016 Barry Hawkins, who he hadn't lost to in a long time, 12yrs was it? 2018 even worse Ali Carter who he had never lost to. 2019 James Cahill, an amateur with Ronnie being no.1 for the first time since 2010.... Expectation often works against him and his best results happen often when he is more carefree and not the favourite, he's such a mysterious character in being so erratic, he was never the winning machine like Davis and Hendry but he could switch on deity mode without any warning which makes him such a nightmare opponent, when he's in a good mood he's more likely to get results... Yes a nightmare for bookies to predict lol.

But as fans we naturally want him to win everything & it stinks when he doesn't win, it bothers us more than him it seems lol. But he's been a pro 30yrs and has been playing about 40yrs now with the highest expectations from childhood so he's long earned the right to play as he wishes, granted it doesn't feel good when he loses and it seems he didn't put the effort but that's his style he likes things to come naturally to him, not grind things out like Selby or Higgins though he's proven to be scarily capable at it such as in this tournament.

Hope he doesn't repeat 2020-21 where he was too relaxed lol, not practising and using the match tables as practise so he'd pot every last ball in losing frames haha!!!

LC wrote:Think it’s more shaking ppls dirty hands, I know from just experience of my local snooker club that very few ppl wash there hands after going to the toilet! So I’m fist bumping in matches lol tho as partridge once said who’s to say you can’t get rubbish on your fist!


That is a pethate of mine, people who don't wash their hands after the toilet should have it chopped off!



And Johnny Bravo, I think you also didn't watch 2020 live either with that ultimately glorious touch and go match with Selby, what can I say? You miss out on some tremendous drama not watching it live! Do I get anxious watching Ronnie? Very much! Far more than for other players. Never to the point I won't watch though but I admit it does affect my sleep if he is trailing lol.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

I won't add much to what's been said, just to run through. First session it was very heated here with Ronnie critics, again a Ronnie incident blown way out of proportion like Shouldergate, I'll agree Ronnie should have been more calm about it but he's no antichrist or parakeet! How far people reach to bring him down....

I wonder if it was deliberate to pick his most hated referee for his first world final to get his 7th?! As a way to try to derail him haha! My take on it is he has been open that he doesn't like grafting, some think he's a brat, yes it can be interpreted that way, he had a very cosy life once, rich family that fully provided for him and his snooker obsession as a kid, how talented he is too the game is so easy for him vs everyone else so when he's not firing he can be problematic. So he botched what should have been a 6-2 session against a very dangerous opponent & didn't act the best way over that, 2020 vs Selby he also struck the floor with his cue iirc when he narrowly failed to win a frame that would have got him 6-2 in session 1... Not professional I know but it's too far to accuse him of antics to mess with the opponent's game.

I agree with Trump being annoyed with the interruption & he did well to end the session 5-3. I rather Ronnie doesn't get distracted as it can eat into his performance, such as vs Robbo in the Masters, that interruption of waiting for people to walk down the steps or w/e it was and he misses a routine shot after, cost him the match though I can't blame the audience, he's been a pro 30seasons you'd think he'd have figured that out by now.... (As Hendry said, Ronnie notices everything in the arena, when he's firing it's of no consequence but when he's got problems with his game his surroundings become distractions) (Would be the chimp complex of self sabotage when insecure, lacking confidence...)

Session 3 worried me I won't lie, did bring bad memories of 2014 and 1992 with the people's champions squandering good leads, I was content with 12-5 if anything disappointed as I didn't want a blowout (I'd have started celebrating with that scoreline if not for having watched 2014 back then...).... Session 4 Ronnie again shows he tends to play his best in evenings even if he loses.

I did want and expected him to get more centuries to break the 16 and get at least 8 centuries in the final to take another record away but that's greed.

Wasn't the final I wanted, Willo vs Rocket was the 1 class of 92 world final we've yet to see and we came so close to seeing it.... But Judd Trump was a worthy opponent who put up a commendable fight as he usually will when behind.

I haven't shed a tear as I'm oldschool hehe but man, I did not expect Ronnie to be so emotional in victory, I have never seen him cry and that hug was a very long one! But so moving, Judd should treasure that as the ultimate respect... When the camera caught Ronnie's face I realised 'He's crying!?', what his dad told him never to do in victory, don't give emotion away it's weakness! But he did, I figured if he ever did it would be for world title 7. I just thought about it, my first crucible match I watched of Ronnie was the sticky cue SF vs Judd when Ronnie came back to defend his title, having taking the season off.... And 9yrs later it's the same 2 players! Both went on to win many things in that timeframe. What a moment, looking forward to rewatching it before it's taken off iplayer! To me this championship is as moving as LeBron James' 2016 win for his state's team, ending their 50+yr 'curse' of not winning any major sports. In that final also there were tears, LeBron I had never seen cry before or since as a champion, he and Ronnie share similarities as GOATs in their sports, both born December, both took 9 seasons to become a champion in their most prestigious tournaments (NBA for LeBron), 2012-14 they nearly threepeated falling at the final of 2014. 2020 both became champion again after a drought of some years. (LeBron however this year for the first time will not be a champion same year as Ronnie, makes up for 2016 where he was and Ronnie wasn't), both in the shortlist in respective GOAT debates. Both hold plenty of records including youngest to distinctions. Both are the ambassadors of their sport.


I've been lucky perhaps in only following Ronnie here and there for 10seasons, not the full 30 many fans have so I was spared of the woes of his many cold spells pre Steve Peters, yes 2015-19 were hard seasons to follow (Softened with Ronnie competing and winning, UK and Masters, Champion of Champions, the ITV tournaments, Shanghai Masters aren't shabby, all have big prizes) but it wasn't pleasant to see people doubt him being able to get to 7 WTs or even 6, I never stopped believing. I imagined how it would be when it happened and it came by so quickly it feels, title 6 took 7yrs from the 5th so I was prepared for this one to take some years so wow it only took 2yrs!

I'm guessing many fans feel this but Ronnie having achieved it I feel a huge weight released & perhaps I'd not dread April next year and so on now that he's got the 7th title, it's all a bonus now! Special thanks to Dr. Steve Peters for reviving the Rocket's career!

Overall the reception to his victory has been overwhelmingly positive here, am pleased! Stark contrast to the nay saying & criticism at him throughout the match at least till it became more certain he's going to win, the Selby fans I have to hand it to them here they know their stuff about Ronnie & have been very respectful with his triumph.

Snookerfan surprises me singing Ronnie's praises! Seems it's true most people love a winner!

I do wonder if Ronnie doesn't secretly get motivated by proving people wrong, Thepchaiyah said to be the fastest snooker player & Ronnie thrashes him in record time for a Crucible match, another gem is after losing to Cahill Davis said Ronnie equalling Hendry's record is doubtful, evening winning 1 more may be. Davis again was at it last year with Selby's victory saying he may be the bigger threat to Hendry than Ronnie, what do you know Ronnie wins again & very comfortably! If I go back again to 2019 with Trump's exceptional victory over Higgins with people lauding is him raising snooker to a new level, with the close of the 10s Ken Doherty predicted the 20s would be Trump's era. He has been right in tournament wins, he's been a damn hoover with wins, 19-20 6 titles! 20-21, 5! Triple crowns so far no and who has out of nowhere been the dominant player of the crucible of the decade? Ronnie O'Sullivan! 2/3, £1million + already.
Not to say the decade won't be dominated by others including Trump, the decade's young. Still that's an unprecedented achievement, John Higgins was the first to win in 3 decades but Ronnie not only joined that club he's the only multiple winner of 3 decades! Who's to say he won't win more? His career trend has interesting trends. Other than 2016 he's won every leap year since 2004. He has made 3 world finals in 2 different decades, if it persists he should make at least 1 more in the 20s.


I honestly thought Ronnie was joking about his glasses being speakers but they really are! Costs a fair bit too they're on sale.
Last edited by SnookerArcher on 19 May 2022, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

Juddernaut88 wrote:
Iranu wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:I won't add much to what's been said...

Liar


Image


Only a sith deals in absolutes! (Yes I realised I wrote a lot more than intended but couldn't be bothered to correct the first part hehe), blame Ronnie for winning, I generally don't come here if he doesn't win the crucible!

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby Johnny Bravo

SnookerArcher wrote:And Johnny Bravo, I think you also didn't watch 2020 live either with that ultimately glorious touch and go match with Selby, what can I say? You miss out on some tremendous drama not watching it live! Do I get anxious watching Ronnie? Very much! Far more than for other players. Never to the point I won't watch though but I admit it does affect my sleep if he is trailing lol.

I was too nervous to watch. :sad: :shrug:

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby Holden Chinaski

Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:And Johnny Bravo, I think you also didn't watch 2020 live either with that ultimately glorious touch and go match with Selby, what can I say? You miss out on some tremendous drama not watching it live! Do I get anxious watching Ronnie? Very much! Far more than for other players. Never to the point I won't watch though but I admit it does affect my sleep if he is trailing lol.

I was too nervous to watch. :sad: :shrug:

Pussy.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby Juddernaut88

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:And Johnny Bravo, I think you also didn't watch 2020 live either with that ultimately glorious touch and go match with Selby, what can I say? You miss out on some tremendous drama not watching it live! Do I get anxious watching Ronnie? Very much! Far more than for other players. Never to the point I won't watch though but I admit it does affect my sleep if he is trailing lol.

I was too nervous to watch. :sad: :shrug:

Pussy.


:goodpost:

Re: Betfred World Championship Final :- Trump v O'Sullivan

Postby mantorok

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:And Johnny Bravo, I think you also didn't watch 2020 live either with that ultimately glorious touch and go match with Selby, what can I say? You miss out on some tremendous drama not watching it live! Do I get anxious watching Ronnie? Very much! Far more than for other players. Never to the point I won't watch though but I admit it does affect my sleep if he is trailing lol.

I was too nervous to watch. :sad: :shrug:

Pussy.


Plastic Ronnie Fan.