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Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby Iranu » 28 Apr 2022 Read

Pink Ball wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:We're getting into very silly territory now, but if every player who ever lived could re-live their 10 best years of form - but they're all in opposition to each other - we know things would be different. Reardon won six titles in the '70s. That wouldn't happen. Davis won six in the '80s. That wouldn't happen. Hendry won seven in the '90s. That wouldn't happen. Because there's only 10 titles to go around.

You win what you win, but of course the opposition you face matters.

Most likely outcome (entirely opinion and not to be taken overly seriously):

Ronnie O'Sullivan: 2-3 titles
Hendry: 2 titles
Higgins: 1-2 titles
Davis: 1-2 titles (but less likely to get to two than Higgins)
Williams: 1 title
Selby: 1 title
Reardon: 0-1 title
Trump: 0-1 title (but less likely to get to one than Reardon)

I’d have Davis slightly ahead of Higgins but yeah.

The moral of the story is it’s all bullocks. <laugh>

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby Wildey » 28 Apr 2022 Read

All this is speculating bullocks you just dont know its 1 vs 1 players adapt or steamroll you just dont know how a 1983 Steve Davis would have dealt with a 2020 Ronnie its impossible

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby Cloud Strife » 28 Apr 2022 Read

Wildey wrote:All this is speculating bullocks you just dont know its 1 vs 1 players adapt or steamroll you just dont know how a 1983 Steve Davis would have dealt with a 2020 Ronnie its impossible


Ronnie would have smashed any version of Davis. I know that for a fact.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby Ck147 » 28 Apr 2022 Read

Cloud Strife wrote:
Wildey wrote:All this is speculating bullocks you just dont know its 1 vs 1 players adapt or steamroll you just dont know how a 1983 Steve Davis would have dealt with a 2020 Ronnie its impossible


Ronnie would have smashed any version of Davis. I know that for a fact.

Bolx and you know it

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby badtemperedcyril » 28 Apr 2022 Read

Nobody seems to consider the evolution of the game… Stephen Hendry would not have been the player he was had he not have had Steve Davis and Jimmy White to learn from; the Co92 would not have been where they are had it not been for Hendry to learn from (and strangely, each other). The fact they were all together made them all the more competitive. Each player can only beat the opponents before him but I do believe the born champions.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby hendry_fan » 28 Apr 2022 Read

McManusFan wrote:John practically in tears.





Good morning MMF.


Aye,i saw that,as i didnae go to bed!.I couldnae settle down and i had to watch the match till the end,as i was way to curious to see what was gonna happen!.I logged out here though,as i feared that John was gonna lose.


I wasnae practically in tears,i was in tears,in fact,i,m startin to have tears in my eyes as i,m typeing this comment!.



WHAT A BUCKIN MATCH!.Canny remember that last time i was so nervous,i could barely watch!.


When Jack went 12-11 ahead,i feared the worst,i thought Jack would pull it off.



The 105 in the 24th frame was,well,fantastic.


In the decider,i thought of the famous,"all your hopin for is just 1 chance" line.

When Jack got in,i then thought,well what a real shame that John did,nt get a chance,as i really did think,that Jack was gonna make a frame,match winning break,or at least score at least 50,60 points,which would of put John under so much pressure,that Jack,d get another chance,in which Jack would of scored enough to seal the match.


When Jack missed the red,broke down after 18,i then thought,now John,at least you,ve been given a chance,at least you can say,you got 1 chance.

He then went on to make a 72,which ended up being enough to seal the win.



HF,then had a wee cry!,i could hardly believe that he did,nt blob,crumble.




VERY,VERRY,VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY WELL DONE TO JOHN.He indeed showed some Wizardry,those last 2 frames were incredible!. :bowdown: :hatoff: :clap:



A HUGE HARD LUCK TO JACK!,his fans n to the ones who rooted for him,the ones who wanted him to win!.

I really like the lad,i really hope he kicks on and wins tourneys,who knows,maybe even the worlds at some point!. :-)



Jeeez!,i,m still absolutley buzzing!, :hyper: :mental: :mental: gotta go n do sum work now though!.



Catch you later mate!. :hyper:

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby McManusFan » 28 Apr 2022 Read

hendry_fan wrote:
McManusFan wrote:John practically in tears.


Good morning MMF.


Aye,i saw that,as i didnae go to bed!.I couldnae settle down and i had to watch the match till the end,as i was way to curious to see what was gonna happen!.I logged out here though,as i feared that John was gonna lose.


I wasnae practically in tears,i was in tears,in fact,i,m startin to have tears in my eyes as i,m typeing this comment!.



WHAT A BUCKIN MATCH!.Canny remember that last time i was so nervous,i could barely watch!.


When Jack went 12-11 ahead,i feared the worst,i thought Jack would pull it off.



The 105 in the 24th frame was,well,fantastic.


In the decider,i thought of the famous,"all your hopin for is just 1 chance" line.

When Jack got in,i then thought,well what a real shame that John did,nt get a chance,as i really did think,that Jack was gonna make a frame,match winning break,or at least score at least 50,60 points,which would of put John under so much pressure,that Jack,d get another chance,in which Jack would of scored enough to seal the match.


When Jack missed the red,broke down after 18,i then thought,now John,at least you,ve been given a chance,at least you can say,you got 1 chance.

He then went on to make a 72,which ended up being enough to seal the win.



HF,then had a wee cry!,i could hardly believe that he did,nt blob,crumble.




VERY,VERRY,VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY WELL DONE TO JOHN.He indeed showed some Wizardry,those last 2 frames were incredible!. :bowdown: :hatoff: :clap:



A HUGE HARD LUCK TO JACK!,his fans n to the ones who rooted for him,the ones who wanted him to win!.

I really like the lad,i really hope he kicks on and wins tourneys,who knows,maybe even the worlds at some point!. :-)



Jeeez!,i,m still absolutley buzzing!, :hyper: :mental: :mental: gotta go n do sum work now though!.



Catch you later mate!. :hyper:


Morning to you to. Well said, what a match! Great chunks of it were awful early on but that last session was so dramatic.

I think whatever happens against Ronnie I'll be happy, I don't expect him to win, those two always put on a good show.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby badtemperedcyril » 28 Apr 2022 Read

Cloud Strife wrote:
Wildey wrote:All this is speculating bullocks you just dont know its 1 vs 1 players adapt or steamroll you just dont know how a 1983 Steve Davis would have dealt with a 2020 Ronnie its impossible


Ronnie would have smashed any version of Davis. I know that for a fact.

But what you don’t know is how good Ronnie would’ve been if he’d been born in 1957 and grown up in the 1970’s when the only snooker you could see on television was one frame a week on Pot Black. Steve learned by reading his Joe Davis book and by playing money matches against whoever Barry could persuade to play him at Romford Luciana.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby snucar » 28 Apr 2022 Read

badtemperedcyril wrote:Nobody seems to consider the evolution of the game… Stephen Hendry would not have been the player he was had he not have had Steve Davis and Jimmy White to learn from; the Co92 would not have been where they are had it not been for Hendry to learn from (and strangely, each other). The fact they were all together made them all the more competitive. Each player can only beat the opponents before him but I do believe the born champions.


The only reasonable comment in this ridiculous discussion! Every time I see this GOAT and era comparison I go "they're so bored, they can't help it". How can someone ignore the natural evolution of the game is beyond me. This is a discussion strictly for player fanatics. Ronnie fans want a 7th world title just to shove it up Hendry's bum, like it changes something if he wins a 7th or stays at 6, bucking ridiculous. Or counting ranking titles, when in the 80s had 4-5 ranking titles to compete and now they have 20!

I go by who had the most impact to the game. Davis/Hendry/Ronnie in whatever order, I don't care. The rest are all behind. Putting Higgins (as great as he is) for example above Davis is beyond of this world, for so many reasons, or to see White behind Ebdon, Ding, Robbo and many others! It's a chain that cannot be broken, like badtemperedcyril rightly said. And you chaps are trying to frankenstein the game and to prove what exactly?

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby LDS » 28 Apr 2022 Read

Satch4 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Andre147 wrote:Iranu is right.

Doesnt matter really if the Class of 92 is old now. If they are playing better than the opposition then it's a good line-up.

No, it absolutely isn't. I read two major points from it:

1) The Class of '92 are exceptional, but we already accept that.
2) We are in a weak era.

Not in the first time i've heard point 2 including from ROS. yet also hear over and over again how the talent depth from top to bottom has never been better


On the one hand, it is true, the strength in depth from top to bottom has indeed never been better, but it entirely depends on the angle you want to use as your stick for comparison.

Modern players have all been brought up on the ethos of all out attack. To win frames in one visit. To approach the game in a similar mindset to pool. To make centuries.

And so you have players right down the top 100 rankings who 'knock in centuries for fun'. Historically, centuries were the province of the top players and scoring a century was a relatively unusual scenario.

Not because players didn't used to want centuries or were more incapable, but rather that the whole concept of centuries was just never promoted as a goal beyond trying to win the high break prize.

The goal was always to win. And to win by any means necessary.

So this is the angle where modern players are no longer as good as their historical counterparts, in that they are not trained in the art of battling.

And the game itself has generally developed along the lines of not teaching players when to cut their losses in a break. To always air on the side of risk rather than caution.

If you're on a 40 break and you're left with a choice of a very tricky red or a routine safety shot, the modern player will almost universally go for the very tricky pot.

And so you have a hierarchy of players based on their ability to pot those tricky reds at 40 points into a frame, rather than a hierarchy of players based on the quality of safety shots they can craft once they score 40.

And because players practice those tricky pots more, and play those tricky shots more, they never get used to the safety aspect of the game in the same way they used to, simply by unfamiliarity.

And so you end up with Hendry's quote about someone like Thepchaiya Un-Nooh: "How is this guy struggling to be in the top 64?"

Because, seemingly, Un-Nooh is a brilliant player, in that, when he scores a century it looks unbelievable. All those tricky reds and the big score at the end.

But the percentages of those tricky shots is such that he cannot do it every frame. And what happens in those frames where the tricky red doesn't go in?

What happens is the table is completely open for the other guy to pot all the balls.

So now it looks like two great players are playing each other. Potting big breaks for fun. It's visually pleasing. But it's not challenging your opponent in any way.

It's boils all of snooker down to how many tricky reds you can pot in a match. And for small frame matches, like best of 5s, best of 7s, the match lengths that most players play at throughout a season, it's very easy to have a run of three or four frames when you pot all of the tricky reds.

But as soon as you get to a final or something like the WSC, a little streak of tricky pots isn't going to carry you over the line.

To conclude:

Players today are much, much, much better at break-building, because that's what they are trained in.

Players today are much, much, much weaker at winning long matches, because a big break only wins you one frame.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Weds April 27th) Quarter Fin

Postby SnookerEd25 » 28 Apr 2022 Read

snucar wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Nobody seems to consider the evolution of the game… Stephen Hendry would not have been the player he was had he not have had Steve Davis and Jimmy White to learn from; the Co92 would not have been where they are had it not been for Hendry to learn from (and strangely, each other). The fact they were all together made them all the more competitive. Each player can only beat the opponents before him but I do believe the born champions.


The only reasonable comment in this ridiculous discussion! Every time I see this GOAT and era comparison I go "they're so bored, they can't help it". How can someone ignore the natural evolution of the game is beyond me. This is a discussion strictly for player fanatics. Ronnie fans want a 7th world title just to shove it up Hendry's bum, like it changes something if he wins a 7th or stays at 6, bucking ridiculous. Or counting ranking titles, when in the 80s had 4-5 ranking titles to compete and now they have 20!

I go by who had the most impact to the game. Davis/Hendry/Ronnie in whatever order, I don't care. The rest are all behind. Putting Higgins (as great as he is) for example above Davis is beyond of this world, for so many reasons, or to see White behind Ebdon, Ding, Robbo and many others! It's a chain that cannot be broken, like badtemperedcyril rightly said. And you chaps are trying to frankenstein the game and to prove what exactly?


:goodpost: (plural)
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