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Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:Mark Wildman, Cliff Wilson, Peter Francisco, Martin Clark, Alain Robidoux, Tony Jones, Chris Small, David Roe, Joe Swail, Andy Hicks, Dave Harold, Brian Morgan, David Gray, Mark King, Fergal O’Brien, Mark Davis, Quinten Hann, Joe Perry, Ian McCulloch, Rory McLeod, Jamie Cope, Martin Gould, Robert Milkins, Liang Wenbo, Luca Brecel, David Gilbert and Jack Lisowski have all played at the Masters.

So?

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby eraserhead

Pink Ball wrote:Firstly, Kyren Wilson is better than Barry Hawkins.

Secondly, the Worlds doesn't market itself as a closed shop to all but snooker's sexiest potting gods. An amateur played in it three years ago.

Kyren is a Hawkins type player. Very solid has his moments but missing that extra gear that the very best have. The worlds is the same top 16 over two seasons are seeded only difference is first match against a qualifier and longer matches.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I don't feel sorry for Trump. Hawkins deserved it. What I don't get is how you can claim on one hand that this is an event only open to the absolute elite, and then you see that Barry bucking Hawkins has been in two finals.

Your hate boner for the Masters is pretty weird.

How many Masters winners aren’t top players?

I don't hate the Masters. I think it's fine. I think it could be a hell of a lot better, and I don't think it comes anywhere near being the elite event it blows itself up to be.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Ck147

Pink Ball wrote:Watch tomorrow night though, every Tom, sausage and Harry will be tipping Assange for Sheffield.

Duh, of course, he has it

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby McManusFan

Juddernaut88 wrote:I did tell all of you that Hawkins was going to be a tough match for Judd. He always struggles against him. I honestly don't know why. When Judd went 5-4 up I thought he had it but yet again another defeat in a decider. He's had too many of them this season.

He played poor shots in the last 2 frames which costed him dearly. Prior to this match I felt Judd was maybe back to the form we know he's capable of but today is another set back. I hope he can win a few ranking events before the World championship.

Well done to Barry Hawkins he deserved it overall. I expect Robbo to beat him very convincingly tomorrow.


Commiserations, I'm sure it's only a matter of time until your man wins big again.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Andre147

Juddernaut88 wrote:I did tell all of you that Hawkins was going to be a tough match for Judd. He always struggles against him. I honestly don't know why. When Judd went 5-4 up I thought he had it but yet again another defeat in a decider. He's had too many of them this season.

He played poor shots in the last 2 frames which costed him dearly. Prior to this match I felt Judd was maybe back to the form we know he's capable of but today is another set back. I hope he can win a few ranking events before the World championship.

Well done to Barry Hawkins he deserved it overall. I expect Robbo to beat him very convincingly tomorrow.


Commiserations Judders. I also thought Trump had him at 5-4, but he actually never potted a ball in the last 2 frames! Bad loss for Trump, but he'll come back stronger, he often does after a bad loss. This season though he hasn't been very consistent, but keeping the form he had over the last 2 seasons was always going to be almost impossible.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I don't feel sorry for Trump. Hawkins deserved it. What I don't get is how you can claim on one hand that this is an event only open to the absolute elite, and then you see that Barry bucking Hawkins has been in two finals.

Your hate boner for the Masters is pretty weird.

How many Masters winners aren’t top players?

I don't hate the Masters. I think it's fine. I think it could be a hell of a lot better, and I don't think it comes anywhere near being the elite event it blows itself up to be.

Every tournament that isn’t the Worlds could be a hell of a lot better.

The Masters is a hell of a lot better than most.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Firstly, Kyren Wilson is better than Barry Hawkins.

Secondly, the Worlds doesn't market itself as a closed shop to all but snooker's sexiest potting gods. An amateur played in it three years ago.

Kyren is a Hawkins type player. Very solid has his moments but missing that extra gear that the very best have. The worlds is the same top 16 over two seasons are seeded only difference is first match against a qualifier and longer matches.

With respect, Kyren Wilson hasn't spent the first 10 years of his career scratching his hole.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Andre147

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I don't feel sorry for Trump. Hawkins deserved it. What I don't get is how you can claim on one hand that this is an event only open to the absolute elite, and then you see that Barry bucking Hawkins has been in two finals.

Your hate boner for the Masters is pretty weird.

How many Masters winners aren’t top players?

I don't hate the Masters. I think it's fine. I think it could be a hell of a lot better, and I don't think it comes anywhere near being the elite event it blows itself up to be.

Every tournament that isn’t the Worlds could be a hell of a lot better.

The Masters is a hell of a lot better than most.


+1

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Firstly, Kyren Wilson is better than Barry Hawkins.

Secondly, the Worlds doesn't market itself as a closed shop to all but snooker's sexiest potting gods. An amateur played in it three years ago.

Kyren is a Hawkins type player. Very solid has his moments but missing that extra gear that the very best have. The worlds is the same top 16 over two seasons are seeded only difference is first match against a qualifier and longer matches.

With respect, Kyren Wilson hasn't spent the first 10 years of his career scratching his hole.

Bingham did, though.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I don't feel sorry for Trump. Hawkins deserved it. What I don't get is how you can claim on one hand that this is an event only open to the absolute elite, and then you see that Barry bucking Hawkins has been in two finals.

Your hate boner for the Masters is pretty weird.

How many Masters winners aren’t top players?

I don't hate the Masters. I think it's fine. I think it could be a hell of a lot better, and I don't think it comes anywhere near being the elite event it blows itself up to be.

Every tournament that isn’t the Worlds could be a hell of a lot better.

The Masters is a hell of a lot better than most.

Naturally. My main issue is that the UK Championship and Masters are bigged up to be something they aren't.

The UK is rightly slammed as being a pale imitation of its former self. Because it switched to the best-of-11s that people twiddle to when the Masters is on.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby orky

Superb day of snooker. Never write Hawkins off but Robertson should win tomorrow. Pleased for Hawkins, very underrated player. He's in the top 16 got here on merit, second masters final in top of world final 9 years ago. As for Judd, I'm sorry but I defo can't see neither him or Robertson win at the Crucible again. Robetson should win tomorrow and that in itself will make him one of the big favourites for the Crucible where he will freeze if up against a decent player either at the L16 or QF stage. Judd won't win there again IMO because of the pressure building and building and there being way too many good players about who don't have the weight of expectation on them at the Crucible.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Andre147

Pinks, difference is The Masters never had in it's history a long format like the UK Champs had.

The UK Champs format being reduced was crap to say the least, but The Masters has pretty much maintained it's format. It even went from Best of 9s to Best of 11s. But like I said, it's format was never long in the first place.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby eraserhead

Pink Ball wrote:With respect, Kyren Wilson hasn't spent the first 10 years of his career scratching his hole.

I'm Hawkins biggest critic and like Kyren. As time goes on though he's not putting in good performances against the very best. Hawkins is a semi final merchant but he's won some great matches against the best.

What's the problem with the masters having the top 16 seeded while it's acceptable at the worlds :chin:

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:With respect, Kyren Wilson hasn't spent the first 10 years of his career scratching his hole.

I'm Hawkins biggest critic and like Kyren. As time goes on though he's not putting in good performances against the very best. Hawkins is a semi final merchant but he's won some great matches against the best.

What's the problem with the masters having the top 16 seeded while it's acceptable at the worlds :chin:

Because...the...Worlds...has...never...pretended...to...be...closed...off...to...average...players.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Andre147 wrote:Pinks, difference is The Masters never had in it's history a long format like the UK Champs had.

The UK Champs format being reduced was crap to say the least, but The Masters has pretty much maintained it's format. It even went from Best of 9s to Best of 11s. But like I said, it's format was never long in the first place.


THEN WHAT MADE IT SO bucking SPECIAL TO BEGIN WITH?????

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Ck147

Juddernaut88 wrote:I did tell all of you that Hawkins was going to be a tough match for Judd. He always struggles against him. I honestly don't know why. When Judd went 5-4 up I thought he had it but yet again another defeat in a decider. He's had too many of them this season.

He played poor shots in the last 2 frames which costed him dearly. Prior to this match I felt Judd was maybe back to the form we know he's capable of but today is another set back. I hope he can win a few ranking events before the World championship.

Well done to Barry Hawkins he deserved it overall. I expect Robbo to beat him very convincingly tomorrow.

Unlucky mate, can always go either way in a decider (you know what I was going through this afternoon). Was really looking forward to a Judd v Robbo final, but not to be. Hopefully we get one soon. You’re probably right about tomorrow, but if Bazza wins I’d be happy for him.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:Naturally. My main issue is that the UK Championship and Masters are bigged up to be something they aren't.

The UK is rightly slammed as being a pale imitation of its former self. Because it switched to the best-of-11s that people twiddle to when the Masters is on.

Unless you have a top-four only tournament, you’ll never get a pure “best of the best” tournament.

Even the Tour Championship, which you consider better than the Masters, Hawkins has been in that and has been won by Maguire who in the scheme of things isn’t much better a player than Hawkins.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby TheRocket

The way Judd has been playing the last 10 months or so you could say he dropped to his pre 2019 level. Brilliant at times but also erratic and not as consistent. Still able to win a tournament or two every season though.

But you can see the faults in his game. He is nowhere near as clinical in the balls as he was during 2019 to early 2021 period.

It might all come back though. Only time will tell.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby eraserhead

Pink Ball wrote:Because...the...Worlds...has...never...pretended...to...be...closed...off...to...average...players.

The masters is now based on rankings though. Not like there letting in Jimmy over McGill.

It's a fun and exciting event.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:With respect, Kyren Wilson hasn't spent the first 10 years of his career scratching his hole.

I'm Hawkins biggest critic and like Kyren. As time goes on though he's not putting in good performances against the very best. Hawkins is a semi final merchant but he's won some great matches against the best.

What's the problem with the masters having the top 16 seeded while it's acceptable at the worlds :chin:

Because...the...Worlds...has...never...pretended...to...be...closed...off...to...average...players.

Hawkins isn’t an average player.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby orky

Wilson will prove to be better than Hawkins at the end if their careers. Both are incredibly similar in their styles of play, and both IMO lack that killer instinct or have that extra bit about them to win consistently. They are very good "pick up the pieces" type players who on their day can damage the top players or win when the top batch of players are out.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Naturally. My main issue is that the UK Championship and Masters are bigged up to be something they aren't.

The UK is rightly slammed as being a pale imitation of its former self. Because it switched to the best-of-11s that people twiddle to when the Masters is on.

Unless you have a top-four only tournament, you’ll never get a pure “best of the best” tournament.

Even the Tour Championship, which you consider better than the Masters, Hawkins has been in that and has been won by Maguire who in the scheme of things isn’t much better a player than Hawkins.

I agree, there has to be some kind of balance. I don't think a tournament featuring just four players would work. It's perfectly possible to get three matches that all fall flat. A lot harder not to at least get one absolute cracker out of seven matches. Most years, you'll get a few.

But having 16 players at it goes so far over the balance it's unreal. I never understood what made it better than the Irish Masters, which only had the top 10 and two wildcards.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:With respect, Kyren Wilson hasn't spent the first 10 years of his career scratching his hole.

I'm Hawkins biggest critic and like Kyren. As time goes on though he's not putting in good performances against the very best. Hawkins is a semi final merchant but he's won some great matches against the best.

What's the problem with the masters having the top 16 seeded while it's acceptable at the worlds :chin:

Because...the...Worlds...has...never...pretended...to...be...closed...off...to...average...players.

Hawkins isn’t an average player.

I agree, he's well above average, and even if it had a proper format, he would have qualified prior to this. No qualms there.

But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:I agree, he's well above average, and even if it had a proper format, he would have qualified prior to this. No qualms there.

But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Actually, relatively speaking they very much are.